Yet Another Warning
 

I was making a couple of frags the other day of some red zoas. I've read all the stories in here about the possible dangers of handling these corals but thought it could never happen to me. I'm not allergic to much in the way of bug bites, bee stings etc, so I went in bare handed. By the time I was done cutting and gluing I had a slight tingling in my left hand. As the night progressed it was almost as if my hand had gone to sleep--pins and needles all over. That's as bad as it got, no swelling or tingling up my arm or anywhere else but it was enough to scare me straight. Never again will I frag anything without gloves. Just be warned. Most of us know what we are and aren't allergic to but when it comes to exotic stuff like corals you just never know.

I really like it when people point to something without any testing or proof.

You might as well have compressed a nerve or something like that and that's where the tingling and numbness came from. It could have been that you are having other more serious issues with your blood vessel and that might come back, if that's the case. I don't think a left arm going numb has anything to do with zoanthids.

If you do a search in google for numbness left arm you will find a lot of possible reasons, but no zoanthid. I would go see my doctor if I were you...as this can hide something nasty, like an upcoming hearth attack.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_..._left_arm_mean

Then do a test and prove him wrong. Rub zoas all over your skin and then lick a few. See if nothing happens

MMAX is just relating his experience. Take him at his word or not. He has the proof he needs.

LOL.he posted a link to wikipedia
Wikipedia is NOT TRUE, it is merely PEOPLES OPINIONS.

anyways thanks for the warning, i wont ever cut frags without gloves.

Well that's really dumb..Licking something and touching it is not the same thing...hello!???

but I do frag zoanthids and palythoas all the time and never had anything like that..does that prove him wrong? I do have zoa slime and paly slime all over my arm when I am done..I even had some in my eyes a few times and on my face. They splash often.

However this could be a warning for something else..something more serious. I posted a link randomly. Anyone can do a search on google find loads of good references for the possible causes of this. Nothing to do with zoanthids or paly, but it could be a possible stroke coming or hearth problems, or it could be just a nerve.

All I am saying is that there is no proof that it is due to the zoanthids, and it could be something very serious so better have this checked out. It would be stupid not to have this checked by a doctor.

I would be careful on who you're telling their having a heart attack, being in the Medical field and telling someone their having a Heart Attack or Stroke or possibly having one over a Forum is not really a good way of going about it. Now he has explaining his expirence and it could in deed have been an reaction to something new. It could have been 100's of things now yes I will agree "Numbness" could indicate a stroke / heart attack and 1000 other medical diagnosis, They're is alot of other things that go with these, Shortness of Breath, Headache, One sided weakness, Cranial nerve abnormalities... The list goes on and on.


I would also be sceptical on someone who is telling me I am having an acute medical emergency that doesn't know how to spell Heart (Hearth?)

This sort of stuff may be better directed in a PM, I don't know if it's just myself but leave the medical direction to people with the appropriate training.

Thanks for the warning. Anyone cutting zoos should think about erring on the side of caution, as this is an all too common story. Gloves are cheap, and they keep the smell off your fingers :)
Yes, you could have also been having a brain seizure causing numbness in your hand, in which case gloves still would not hurt. Wear gloves while fragging people, worst case you'll look like a coral surgeon!! hehe

Thank you MMAX.

Try to ignore the people like I quoted.

This one lost all credability by attacking you for sharing your experience, then posted a link to an info search site. When I clicked that link that they provided to debunk you it came up with a big search box which I typed in "dangers of zoanthids".

When searched like that, the first non ad link had this in it...

"Palytoxin is a tumor promoter, and is being studied in relation to signaling pathways in skin cancer genesis.[16] Contrary to common belief, palytoxin can be absorbed through intact skin.[17] The danger of acute poisoning from venomous zoanthids is quite real. An aquarist was poisoned through skin injuries on fingers by a Parazoanthus species, but recovered after 3 days. His zoanthid was found to contain 2-3 milligram of palytoxin per gram.[18] For comparison, the intravenous LD50 dose of palytoxin for a grown man is less than 8 microgram. Thus each gram of the offending zoanthid contained enough venom to kill at least 125 grown men." (sounds safe to me)

So perhaps I am just confused, maybe that poster was arguing to support what you were saying.


Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/zoanthid#ixzz1bntuPJfq

Lol seems legit -- Only 125?

It's got to be true, it was posted on a wiki site.

I think fragging people is frowned upon......

I'd like to buy a comma please :)

Just too funny!

I am willing to part with one (,) Trading for Frag's otherwise i'm sold out.

I'd trade you a frag of zoos, but I'm out of gloves as well as commas, and well, we all know what can happen if I frag those without gloves (I could have a heart attack stroke seizure).

I also work in the medical field. Although my field of study does not include palytoxin (PLTX) I would direct you all to a study from a more reputable source for information. I suggest personal accounts of interactions with zoanthids and palys do not constitute enough scientific proof one way or the other, nor do they make one an expert in the field of medicine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21255599

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21483745

:popcorn:

Scientific proof, by definition, no. However, enough "personal accounts" have been reported immediately following interaction with Zoos and Palys so that I personally feel comfortable with their validity. If I'm fragging them, I'm wearing gloves. Zoos and Palys do contain toxins that can present symptoms such as those reported, therefore, it's entirely plausible AND believable that the personal accounts are true. Since the purchase of latex gloves isn't likely to cause any undue financial hardships on the hobbyist doing the fragging, I'll again recommend anyone doing so err on the side of caution and use them, if only for peace of mind.

I'm sorry, that icon is reserved for Kien...please put it back.

o god here we go let me guess it wasnt the zoas right he prob has velvet....throw him in some peroxide and a couple doses of vit c followed by some hypo.....






:drinking::drinking::drinking:

:hail::hail::hail:


stiff drink anyone?????;)

thanks for sharing man, not something to be taken lightly glad your ok:)

to funny lol

NOw that's funny...first I did not attack anyone, second you posted a link to answer.com...same type of link I just poste that was supposably not good :)

I do beleive that some parazoanthus (usualy very ugly brown polyps) are carrier of the toxin, however the likehood of finding this in home aquarium is low. Plus those are not really the type of paly that one would want to frag! lol!

If you read, the most severe case of reaction in human was a man trying to boil the ugly paly to get rid of them, not trying to frag them. Here is a chart with the polyps that were found to be carrier:

http://www.plosone.org/article/slide...e.0018235.g002

and the link to the study:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0018235

I just don't beleive that having a left arm go numb would be related to fragging zoanthids. Some people have understanding problem here..I was not saying that the OP was having a heath attack! wow that was funny...but rather that it is a possible causes and that I would go check with a doctor.

I do think that the OP should see a doctor and not take any chance with any possible cause.

Now that's just plain common sense.

Here is another study but I cannot have access to the full thing. Maybe someone here does.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...41010111000109

Please do not misinterpret my paragraph. I simply stated (rephrased) No single account constitutes enough proof either way. I'm simply directing everyone to look for more scientific fact, and not personal account.

I also agree that gloves should be worn as a precautionary measure, since different species of paly and zoanthid contain different levels of toxin. I encourage everyone to read the second link (in full), then you can make up your own mind whether or not to wear gloves when touching marine life, or for that matter, a helmet when you ride your motorcycle.

Then we come out with the safety of answers.com. Dont poke fun of wiki and then go to answers... better yet dont get your "sound" info from the web. Books are fun too.

Anyways thanks for the tip on the gloves, I will be sure to wear them from here on in.

god I love this site.
it always amazes me how something can get so out of hand.
If you think about it, a box of gloves are cheap.
why take the chance for 20 cents????
scientific proof or not.
just my two cents.

worst case scenario it keeps the slime off your hand....best case scenario could save your life.seems like a win win to me as well:)

You believe this and you believe that but you still haven't proven or disproven anything. Op was having symptoms and his theory as to why it happen is way more probable, even without proof. You have 0 facts stating that zoas don't cause tingling in your hand after touching them and that it's only the brown ones.

now thats good advice and should be a sticky;p

Still a follower I see? hmmm...never saw such devotion from someone before, although I did have a few. interesting!

you forgot your :drinking:

Let's try to keep the personal attacks out of the thread please. Danielle/Denny, use PM for taking shots please...

Most LPS corals cause my hands/fingers to go numb/tingly and slightly swollen. Particularly Euphyllia sp and the various brain corals. Most Plays will do this to me as well, but most Zoas don't (regardless of color). In fact, if I spend an hour or more messing around in the tank (stacking rock, etc) my hands/fingers will go numb/tingly and fairly swollen and will actually cause me a slight bit of asthma. The only time I ever wear gloves is when I am handling live rock at an LFS. I do wear safety glass anytime I am fragging though as I think a shot of plain ole saltwater to the eye would be irritating enough, let alone a shot of slimy coral saltwater.

sorry brad will do:):)

Nothing to disprove it, nothing to prove it either!

One thing is sure, HE SHOULD go see a doctor.

don't you agree?

The problem with this type of thread is that the OP simply assume that it was caused by handling zoanthids and he comes here and say so as if it was the true story, but without having done proper test and having consulted a doctor, it is just pure assumption. This is how myths multiply and survive.

If he go see a doctor and have a blood test done that confirm playtoxin poisoning then it will be proven. Until he does that, no proof and still a possible rick that something else very bad is on its way.

If he touched the zoanthids with his right hand (he probably have)..then why his right arm was not affected as well? sure... I would be more worried that something else might have been the cause.

+1 for glasses.
I was scrapping an aiptasia off a rock and of all places it landed in my freaking eye.
My eye was red, irrated and hurt like a son of a gun for 3 days.
Looked like I was on a bender and needed to go to AA for a while.

+1
:laluot_18:

What a car wreck, I couldn't stop reading even thou I knew I should have after the second post! . After finishing this I feel like removing my eye balls for a long soak in iodine after which I would return them to their sockets with little cocktail weinie forks and hope for a passing solar eclipse........

Couldn't have said it better myself :) Oh, don't handle eyeballs without gloves....just sayin'