MH bulb comparison pics
 

Just a couple of pics to compare bulbs. The first one is a picture of a Venki 175W bulb as it looked after burning for hours. It was mounted horizontally with the nipple up.
The second shot is of a quite old AB 175W 10000K bulb. The intensity and clor is still very good.
I don't know what the problem is with the Venki bulb. When I fist fired it up, it was great, as an earlier picture shows. Now it is just crappy.

http://members.shaw.ca/rcipema/newbulbtwo.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/rcipema/ab_bulb.jpg

This is the picture of the Venki bulb when it first fired up.

http://members.shaw.ca/rcipema/newbulb.jpg

Wow...that's pretty nasty! Is the Venki bulb a 6500k bulb? If so then it would make sense. I'm sure the bulb still needs to burn in too, unless you'v already done that.

The bulb is a 10000K. The goofy thing is that when I first fired it up, it was great. Later in the day it became pee yellow. Steve said it could be because I was trying to use it vertically, so I went out and spent $70.00 on a new pendant so I could use it horizontally. I then tried to use it for two days with the above results.
The old AB bulb has been used vertically, and horizontally with no problems. :sad:

That really does look horrid.. I was considering using a bulb from venkiw.. but I think I will hold off for now and see what happens with other peoples bulbs..

If the colour in the pic is accurate, then something's gotta be wrong with the bulb! That's very yellow even for 6500k standards. I'd give it the benefit of the doubt and let it burn in for 100 hours. Hopefully there'll be a dramatic colour shift. I know others have used the 10k bulbs from Venki and are happy with it, but I'm not sure if they're using the 175w.

Man...i still can't believe a 10k bulb can burn like that!

my venki 10k 400W looks way whiter then that.

Hey bob,

If you had contacted us we would have tried to rectify the situation. Posting without contacting the manufacturer does not serve any purpose, does it?

Venki

I think it gives an account of Bob's opinion, if I'm not mistaken. Certainly something we're all interested in. You really need to stop being so defensive. You did sign up for public scrutiny by entering into business selling things. And you are certainly entitled to respond to Bob's post.

Well, in this case maybe Bob is posting to eliminate all other possibilities before assuming that the bulb is defective. If this is the case then posting before contacting the manufacturer would make sense and would be the responsible thing to do :smile:

I was just my frustration that he had to spend money on additional gear he didn't need. :rolleyes:

Bob, as suggested allow it to burn for 100 hours (make sure the contacts are tight, may be need to pull the tongue out a little and tighten the bulb), the nipple can be in any position other than pointing down. I hope you do not have any timers on the circuit.

Can you also note down where the mixture is inside the inner tube are? and send me the info. Also the ballast make and type would be useful.

Dont worry about over tightening them, we'll send you a bulb if you break them.

If nothing works send the bulb back to us for a replacement, you also have the option of getting a 14K if you so wish.


Cheers


Venki

PS:- It is just that if I wasn't here it becomes more of a customer service issue, sorry didn't mean to offend anybody, hurts the reputation of the company, that I am working hard to build.

I still like the 20 K or the 12 K
bulbs love the blue look..
But that is me

Well I do not think what Bob did here was any wrong. I mean I ve seen many people post comparison of your bulbs that look good. Why did no one complain about those pics and what is so different about Bob posting these pics as compared to other comparisons of your bulbs that look good. Bob is just showing us what he found out about your bulbs that some of us do not know.

But I must say that you are handling this situation very well by letting Bob replace the bulbs if he wished.
BTW as Bob mentioned, it was pass the burn in period of 100 hours

This is not the first time I heard about this yellowing color. Is there a reason that these bulbs tend towards this color? Is this a new technology that has quite worked out the bugs yet? Just curious. I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig if it was. Too expensive when you are looking a Metal Halide costs.

I know others who have had the same problem with the 175w as well, yet none with the 250's. I have both the 10000k and the 14000k 250w. Personally I think the 14k rating is a joke. JMO.




Jeff

14k rating is a joke? why? Is it too low, or too high a rating?

He means they look like radiums.

Hmmm, well if someone doesn't like the look of there 250w 14k's I'll trade for 250w - 10k's :lol:

Walter

This post is getting a bit out of hand. My original reason for posting my findings was to let everyone know what was happening to me. I never meant to start a battle of words with Venki. If indeed that occurred I am sorry. I am sure Venki will make every effort to set things right. :redface:

I do mean they do look like somebody else's 20000k :smile: (Thanks Jack). I would like to know how Manufactures rate their numbers. If AB's are supposedly 13000k(sold as 10k), Ushio 10000k, Sunburst 12000k etc., etc., which are all whiter type bulbs, how is a Sun Aquatics 14000k more like a rated 20000k. I don't mind the total blue look but I don't personally think there is enough par in the bulb and I would have to change out my VHO actinic's to 10000k to supplement. Again this is JMO.




Jeff

If the 14k's look like radiums then that's a pretty good joke for me! I've been looking into a cheaper alternative to the radium.

Timers?
 

Venki,
Why no timers? how are you turning your bulbs on and off? I am using a heavy duty timer for both bulbs, and I have great color (bright white).


Al

Re: Timers?
 

me too...

I personally find that with timmers, they are crap unless you spend at least $40+ on each one, they have problems delivering power cleanly...
I have tried literaly about 30+ brands and models of timers.... the only kind I buy now are always over $50 each, I havent had a problem since!

So are you saying that the bulb's may burn diffrently with or without a timer? :confused: Never heard that one before

a timer, or any other device put inline between the power source and ballast will act as a resistor and lower the amount of power going to your bulb, so yes it could make the bulb burn irregular... the larger the gauge of wire, and better quality the connections are of any device put inline between your equipment and power source, the less power will be loss due to resistance...
ever pluged a power tool into an extention cord that was really long, sometimes the tool wont work properly, and may even throw the breaker
power works best with the least amount of resistance, thats whay some ballasts say the max length the power cord to the socket can be, because even the cord has resistance...

well, I have heavy duty appliance timers, that, with taxes, cost very close to $50.

so far, I have had no problems at all.

Just tagging along to see what comes out of that point.

Well guys I guess I will chime in on this thread. About a month ago I purchased 2 175w 10k bulbs from Venki. I was very happy when I fired my first bulb up, it was very blue compared to my 10k Ushio. I was so happy I posted pictures of it right away. Two days later I hooked up my other ballast and fired up the other bulb. To my surprise it appeared the color of about a 6500k bulb. I waited about a week hoping it would burn in. After a week the two 10k's were completely different colors (about a 6500k and 14k). I was told by Venki to ship the bulbs back to him and he would test them. After about 3-4 week of testing the verdict was my ballasts were the cause of the bulbs not firing correctly. These were the same ballasts that Venki told me were the best ballasts for these bulbs (about 2 days before i bought the bulbs). In the 3-4 weeks Venki was testing my bulbs I was following threads on reef central about the same problem other people were having. It seemed to be a common problem with the 175w 10k's. They would either burn really yellow or really blue. Venkie told me the only thing he could do was refund my money and that in the future he would put warnings that the bulbs did always work on tar ballasts.......I though a little late! After he already told me they did. So I ended up with my refund alright......... "I refund your account 2 X 42 = 84 less 20% restocking fee = 67.2 total including tax = 71.90 in the next couple of days." Quote from email...... but that didn’t cover my $15 shipping charge x2. (Since I had to pay for the return shipping)

So in the end I end up with no bulbs and $47 in the whole. This is exactly why my parents tell my not to buy things on the Internet!!!!!!!!!

I apologize for the novel

Last time I bought a bulb off the Internet and wasn't happy with it, the supplier gave me new one, no (hardly any) questions asked. I got a new bulb that did work fine and I was $0 in the hole. I buy lots off the Internet, and I've never had a problem.
Restocking for defective product seems a bit odd, no? Maybe it's just me :rolleyes:

Ok enuf of this bunk. hell we better take our breakers out and directly wire them to the utility source..

I can't believe you actiualy posted this Kyle..... any timer that is rated for the amprage required for the bulb will not restrict the power to the bulb (unless it is in its off cycle :rolleyes: ) you know I even went and measured my draw through the timer last night because even though I knew the timer excuse was junk I thought I might give you the benifit of the doubt.

If you think about it even if it was a little bit of a resistive load it would only increase the total amount of power you consume. a 15 amp timer is not going to restrict a 5 amp load they are simpacly a switch, like a light switch, which when made has a 0 ohm load (I tested 4 different types of timers for this last night including the old 5.00 dial ones) so anyone who is blaming the color of a bulb on the timer better find a new excuse.

Steve

Steve,

The reason for my post was that some of the timers have dimmer circuit in them, which is a well known fact. Trying to get all the facts straight, is all I am trying to do.

Venki

May I take the time to totally agree with Steve. Maybe it would behoove those who have no technical background to stop posting bunk. Steve is right. A timer is a timed switch which is off or on. It is delivering power, or no power. I would go deeper into it, but i think Steve has covered it enough. :rolleyes:

What timers have dimmer circuits :question:, and a well known fact to who? I myself use the heavy duty T311 Intermatic mechnical timers. Let's talk about price. They sell for $34.95 at a LFS here in town. They sell for $24.95 at our favorite hydroponics supplier. The same timer sells for $11.99 at Ukrainian Tire. I have three of those plus a heavy duty timer made by Timex, which sells for about the same price.
But dimming circuits :question: :question: :question:

Bob,

http://www.radioshack.ca/estore/cate...log=RadioShack

I have come across a few more of these. I was told that only incandscent lights are supposed to be used with them.

HTH

Which one :question: The link came up with a whole page of timers. If you are talking about the lamp timer with the dimmer, you are quite right. ANY ttimer with a dimmer built in should only used with incandescent lamps. Normal timers which act as a switch are fine.

Strange, at our company we pay to ship items back when they are defective. And we don't charge any restocking fee unless its an old old item that they just don't want anymore. The product is fine just they don't want it.

Things are getting interesting on this thread. :eek:

hmmmmm, not going to say that Im an electrical genieus or anything, but here is my experience with timers.....

cheap timer problems:
plug in ballast, bulb dosent always fire
plug in ballast, bulb fires, bulb soon goes out
plug in ballast, bulb fires, bulb flickers alot, not as bright as it should be
plug in ballast, bulb fires, bulb randomly goes off and on

When I changed to expensive timers I never have had any of these problems runiing them on the same power source...

So if you ask me, timers can make a difference in some way
mabey you found a cheap digital timer that did the trick for you, I didnt....
I found that the dial timers work fine too, but dont use them...

Well, interesting thread, I'm a bit dumbfounded by some of the statements. Timers are simple on off switches, my understanding is the better the timer the more precise the timing for on/off cycles.
I've seen MH bulbs that burn really yellow as well, my first two both were a horrible yellow similar to the pic Bob posted, it took about two weeks, maybe even three but they eventually burned in and looked great.
I have no idea why one bulb of the same rating would burn blue and another that's supposed to be the same would burn yellow but if I had that happen and I was charged a stocking fee for sending them back as the manufacturer/distributor told me to do, I'd be on the war path.
Now as this little drama continues, it seems that J&L is the only one who's selling them locally and they say they are out of stock if you try to buy a bulb from them I'm assuming they want to get rid of their old stock of more expensive bulbs before they order in any more of the SA's.
A bargain is only a bargain if you can get it, and ONLY if the manufacturer/distributor stands behind their product 100% restocking charges should be saved for a purchase that someone decides they didn't really want the product they ordered, when there is a quality issue, the manufactuerer/distributor should be the one who pays the shipping etc.. hell it's a tax write off anyway.

Doug

This is the exact reason that we wanted dealers carrying the product, the only way we can validate a claim is by getting it in and testing at our end. With a dealer they may be able to validate them at their store/facility.

The bulb that was returned tested ok on our electronic ballast (this is our standard test procedure, as we cannot stock every ballast available in the market), and we just discarded the bulb and absored the loss.

I am new to the arena of customer service, but I am learning and changing things where I can.

It is a tax write-off sure but it is tacked on to the next customer who comes along.

I'd love to see more stores carrying the product, sadly no other store I've spoken with has heard of SA bulbs or at least they aren't saying. I've phoned and asked if they carry them or plan on it, they all say, never heard of them, who makes em?
I've spent the better part of my life working in customer service related fields and I know it's not always easy to deal with people. However, if you can show the paying public you stand behind your product 100% then you'll build customer confidence much quicker.

Doug