I need some Help - Little to no growth
 

I need some help all, I just can't seem to get any growth out of anything. Where should I start? I've had some SPS in the tank for 8 months and you can't tell if they have grown AT ALL.

Some specs:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 5-10
Phos - Undetectable
KH - 8
CA - 650 - Need to improve
MG - Can't find my test kit, I need to buy a new one
Salt - Seachem
RODI - TDS =0
Feed frozen and flake with garlic once a day.
I have zero algae in the tank, no hair, diatoms, cyano, very little film forms on the glass.

400W DE 14k - 2ea bulbs approx 1 year old 1ea approx 2 months old. The other two will get swapped out shortly, 1 this month and the last a month or two from now. ( I have the SPS under the new bulb in the sand bed )
Lighting is approx 6" from the water surface
No Actinic at this time
Lighting Runs from 4:00 pm to 10:00 pm
Temp - 79
Flow - 2ea Darts running two closed loops
Return - Dart
Skimmer runs 24/7 and pulls a whole bunch of crap out and is rated for well above my tank volume.
Running Carbon in a reactor.
Running Bio Pellets in a reactor.

Help me please! I don't want to buy anything more until I can get at least some growth..

Go look for a post I did a few weeks back on that exact question. Lots of good info there

Ca should be lower, around 420-430, 650 is way too high.

Oh ya, way too high. Check salinity, and double check ca test kit. 650 should cause a lot of precipitate.

No precipitate, I'll go retest that one.

Robb Nitrates are going to slow your growth down too.

get a mag test kit if it is low it will slow groth quite abit. +1 on nitrates. CA to high coral will eat it up just do not dose any ca till it comes down.

Bill

I noticed you said 2 bulbs were over a year old?
Might be time to change them.

I read through the thread, good advice in there.

without actinics, I would be running at least an 8 hour halide cycle...

What's your thinking behind the increased light cycle? Light longer because I have reduced light output with out actinics, or light longer because I'm not providing light in the Actinic spectrum?

I'm not sure lighting longer just because of the reduced par of not having actinics would be the sollution, I'm putting a lot of light in the tank with the 3ea 400w 14k DE halides no?. I'm willing to try though. I have the retrofit T5's I intended to use for Actinics but I haven't gotten around to installing them yet.

Others already gave opinions on things I would take care of, but one thing no one has mentioned is DKH... I do believe 8 is too low, unless you are on the Zeovit (full) system.

If not on Zeo, I would raise DKH to about 10-11... The reason I say this is because I run the full Zeo method, and had my DKH at 7-8 according to zeo recommendations. Well I stopped the Zeolites because I am now running NP BioPellets, but still running all other ZEO. Recently I was seeing some issues and some coral tissue loss, even though everything was perfect. It was brought to my attention that the Zeolites work with DKH, and since I no longer have them, I should raise my DKH back up, so I now run mine at about 10-11 DKH... Almost immediately things improved and now all is good.

Just a thought for you.

Hope this helps!

I am thinking about it in the context of a natural environment and how 6 hours of sunlight is just very short compared to even winter months for any organism used to natural sunlight cycles...not so much par or spectrum as your lights are quite adequate in both of those respects.

I only run a 8on/16off cycle with my halides but I have 4 VHO that simulate sunrise/sunset so they are really getting 12 hours of light in varying spectrums depending on what lights are on or off.

out of all the info you provided, this was the one obvious thing that stuck out to me that had not been touched on at all and could be an easy fix for youto just add another 2 hours of halides until you install your actinics for a more natural sunset/sunrise...

There are some good suggestions in this thread. There are also some misinformation here. First of, 8 dKH is perfectly fine, if your test kit is accurate. Recommended alkalinity is between 7-11 dKH. A lighting period of 6 hours using 400W DE is perfectly fine. That's 6 hours of intensive light period. You don't get more than that hours of intensive light period in the tropic seas. I am using 250W for 6 hours and get good growth (For some SPS, they are growing like weed).
For OP, are your corals happy? How is their polyp extension? What kind of corals do you have? Maybe they are just slow growers. Try to find some fast growers, like pink birdsnest or green birdsnest or some digitata and see if they grow at all in your tank.

so george thinks you should just buy some faster growing corals...

problem solved.

it's really so simple when you think about it.

You are correct DKH of 8 is fine, just a recommendation on what I have recently done, based on recommendations. It worked for me, so I don't know how it is misinformation, as it is not!!! don't read anything extra to what I or others have said.... It is just info, to do with what one wishes.

Keep in mind, these are just suggestions (which is what the OP is looking for) and nothing is written in stone.
Just opinions of other reefers who can draw on their independent experiences to try and provide the OP with some suggestions that may have slipped past them based on their own experiences.

every system is different and to just write off anothers suggestion purely based on your own experiences really isn't helping anyone out here...IMO.

+1, well said

Try changing your salt maybe. I think sometimes that these mystery slow/no growth problems come down to a trace element that we might not even know to test for. Some salts may have it, others not but it's worth a shot.

As 6 hours of light may be enough, this will all depend on the quality of the fixture, bulbs and age of things... Maybe try increasing it to 8 hours, and give it a month and see what happens, then maybe 10 hours.

I personally use Ushio 10K bulbs for growth with t5HO actinics and have my lights on for 11 hours with no negative impact and the corals seem happy.

Just another suggestion if you feel other areas are ok.

All but one seem to be happy, keeping their color, polyp extentsion.

Honestly I'm not much for knowing the names of all the corrals I have, but I do know they they are confrimed fast growers as they came out of Dez's tank.

I have:
A couple of Acros
Red Milli
Red Monti Cap
I think a Slimer Stag

Thanks for ALL of the suggestions, it's all valuable information. I'll try the suggestions in a structured manner as not to overwhelm the tank with changes.

I'm running PFO Ballasts and reflectors for all three lights. 2 of the bulbs are creeping up on a year old and one is a couple of months old. I started putting corals in when the bulbs were about 2 months old and growth was non existant through the life of the bulbs. I moved all the corals under the bulb that's only a couple of months old when I installed it. No change to date. The two older bulbs are Hamilton's and the newest one is an IceCap

I should also mention I have a VERY low bioload.

3 - Green Chromis
2 - Bangii (sp) Cardinals

Wow that's all? I'm not one to boast about growth but I know fish poop makes for one good coral food. Any other things added to the water for nutrients?

Yep, that's all :lol: I have the intention of getting more, I just need to find the right fish.

Sorry, I missed the second half of the question, nothing else is being added to the tank.

I have a feeling when you find these "right fish" you will also find some coral growth to go along side it.

Sorry to hear things have been slow Rob. You were first to the pass with the build so this is a surprise.

I thought I had read if Calcium is too high it can slow growth but I don't know for sure. I had 2 chromis and a blenny so also a low load but much higher compared to volume I guess. Dkh is also 8 and almost all my pieces have shown great growth from what I understand great growth to look like.

Good luck. At least it appears you have some things to try whereas Brad's issue seems to have been more mysterious last I read.

I'm questioning the high Ca value, the smart one in the family is going to test it for me tonight in case I'm reading the instructions incorrectly.

I've gotten through life on my good looks not my intelligence so it wouldn't suprise me if I was doing it wrong! :mrgreen:

Well, I'd be more on the side of 11 over 8 without zeo, I personally think 8 is low. I've always had better results with alk over 10.

This is something we have in common. I have a yellow tang, 2 small clowns and a tilefish. I'm going to increase it to see if that makes any difference.

You know, there might be something to this. Marie grows SPS forests and she maintains a nutrient rich tank. Aside from a top-end skimmer she doesn't use much else. Not even filter socks.

Seachem gives false ALK readings due to high Borate levels, you must subtract 20% from the your ALK test kits to get the true DKH.

Now based on the above info:

If you ARE running zeovit, or if you are NOT running zeovit but, trying to maintain alkalinity values that are close to NSW (6-8 dkH), THEN you must....

SUBTRACT 20% from the reading you are getting (this is only if you are using Salifert test kits, I am not sure if the Seachem test kits incorporate borate alkalinity).

For example;

You measure a dkH value of 8 on your Salifert test kit....In reality, you are ACTUALLY testing at 6.4 dkH

or

You measure a dkH value of 10 on your Salifert test kit....In reality, you are ACTUALLY testing at 8 dkH

Good information to have.

I'm not using Salifert or Seachem test kits, I'm using ELOS. I am using Seachem salt though. ( Not really by choice but I'd hate to waste it )

From what I gather ELos does not take Borate into the reading either, so your Alk readings are likely off.

I don't use Seachem for this very reason, IO is the best in my opinion if you are willing to bump the MAG a little and possibly the potassium if needed.

So my wife just did some testing for me in case I was flubbing up. Unless the test kit is wrong the CA is actually 650. How does it even get that high without me dosing a thing? I don't have any fresh SW mixed up as I did a water change a couple of days ago but surely it isn't that high out of the pail!

Did you recheck your salinity?

I did

1.026 on both my refracs

I'd get a second test kit, I'm having trouble with 650 :)

I'm inclined to agree...

In an effort to up my fish count I did pick up a Coral Beauty and Fisheri Angel tonight.