which shop in calgary is the best in service??
 

:confused: just wanna know what you think which shop do you like best for their service, like giving advise, selection, care and tidiness...

in comparison to what? :razz: :lol:

none of them are particulaly good...I'd come here for advice, and get your fish off the net...

Welcome to Canreef. :cool:

Hey, welcome! :biggrin:

The local shops are all a bit "lacking" in one way or another. For instance, at Gold you might find someone who knows something about corals and will give you a good price. At Wai's you may see nice SPS but nobody will speak to you. At Ocean you may find good prices but not many corals, and fish that may be kept for 2 weeks before selling. At Pisces you'll find a nice big store where (perhaps) many fish and corals perish, and prices seem quite high. But there is a good selection of captive-bred clowns...

I won't mention Big Al's. :evil:

So once you've been around to them all a few times, you get a feel for who is leading you straight (hopefully), but this only goes as far as their own knowledge, which is multiplied tenfold on this and other hobbiest sites and discussion boards. The accumulated knowledge and experience from the members here vastly outpaces the knowledge and experience of a few shopkeepers, but they are the "professionals" and sometimes take offense to this notion.

I've heard they have a reputable shop up in Edmonton, but haven't been to visit.

Cheers,

I Second Alan's comments!
And Welcome!

I kinda figured Big Al's was one of the better stores as far as Calgary goes?

I don't know about the corals, can't think of the last time I ever bought any at a LFS, but I've never had an issue with any fish I bought at Big Als.

Not that we're talking about a lot of fish here, I guess only 3 of them (hey that's 50% of my fish though! :razz: ). Of course I did my homework first with those 3 and I think that might be part of the equation.

{With any store} You do need to exercise common sense and judgment when you make a purchase .... you need to know what you want and what to look for, and never rely on the good word of a vendor to be unbiased (they might be, but they might not be. Or they may not know better).

There was a red carpet at Big Al's in the summertime for $60. At the time it was the furthest thing from my mind due to other circumstances but man alive. That thing sat there for like 6 or 7 weeks. These things go for like >$200 USD south of the 49th. I should have jumped on it, and I'm kicking myself now that I didn't. Oh well.

so alot of reefers in calgary don't buy livestock in LFS??

i have been into forums down the states and they seems to be the other way around... it seems that they pretty much support the local business, the thing is, if you go elsewhere to buy stuff, like livestock, the selection is very limited to the fact that only what they ship to you is what you get.. i tends to like to go and look at the real thing, use my judgement for sustainability. this give me good results so far because this way i have no "junk" or stuff that i don't really like in my reef tank.

personally, i go to all of them and purchase their livestock before, they all have different problems, because they are all from 4-5 big suppliers. Gold have nice prices, but often i seen coral died off in their system after they stay for more than 1 week. especially LPS. oceans have "sustainable corals, though selection is few but i do get nice stuff sometimes. maybe due to the fact that nice pieces are gone as soon as they arrive..." big al's -they do not know what they are doing, and pieces? in my dictionary they don't even qualify to be selling marine stuff. Wai's have nice corals and mushrooms, lps, but not very friendly, and i have heard stories when the owner give very wrong advise to accompany the deal.

in fish wise,

ocean have fully cured fishes, sometimes pricey.
gold have nice prices,
big al? i don't know what to say, damsels dies in their tank, and fish corpses on the edge of tanks everywhere.
pieces have aquacultured clowns and that is it.
riverfront have sick fish and freshwater fish people selling it, and telling me they do not know a majestic angel is not a blue face.
wai's have nice fish but big price tag.

to tell you the truth, i work in one of these stores and i give my opinion from my head, unbiased.

i guess my thinking is, we still have to support these local fish store, and educate them to relize the vast amount of knowledge in these forums and discussion board. at the end of the day, good selection, knowledgible LFS is benefiting the local reefers.

Cheers :rolleyes:

I don't think the LFS will ever dissapear, because a great deal of the money that trades hands in this hobby is thanks to spur of the moment "that would look nice in the den" purchasing. However I don't think there is any point in supporting an LFS if the staff aren't knowledgeable and if the livestock is kept in subpar conditions. I don't think I would buy fish from any of the LFS' I've been to in Calgary, although I haven't been to Gold's yet so I'll reserve judgement on them.

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a reputable, honest, and reliable place to spend our money on this hobby... :cool:
Maybe I'm missing something but it seems to me that when you sell that six year old kid his/her first fish tank, you have the potential for a customer who will support your business for the next...oh, I dunno', how old is Bob?, lets say 92 years. Hell, those are pretty good numbers. I'm startin' to see people in this city who have spent $3000.00 to get into marine. They have al this wizzy CRAP and all this other stuff that they don't know how to use or what to do based on water test results, based on the crappy kits they were told they must have...but I guess if your oxygen test kit is the wrong color ya' go runnin' back and let them sell ya' a $300.00 UV sterilizer, 'cause that is most certainly the problem... :evil:.
I guess in defense of the retailers they are not always aware of the advice a salesperson issues. And we all know there are far to many variables to quickly diagnose a problem. Ya' pay your staff peanuts and all ya' get are monkeys...
I've NEVER seen, or heard, sales staff try and sell a quality book !!!
What was the question again... :confused:

I think, and the pet industry is not the only guilty party, that many managers use the wrong employee model when hiring new staff. LFS' should be hiring only staff who know something about the animals. What's with hiring kids in high school who are working to buy beer and stereos? Those kids should be out working in restaurants or something. And I don't know what the hiring criteria is, because it sure as hell isn't friendliness or efficiency either.

There will be a awakening of LFS owners when they stop getting the volume of business and a few people subtly drop hints to them of the kinds of dollars that are going to MO because they refuse to service their clients/potential clients ( eg. VHO 36" actinic locally = $49.99 ... J&L = $32.99 and piggybacked on a free shipping order from Mike ) ... either they carry the product and then hold you over a barrel to buy it or they dont even try to get what the local market is looking for ... gone are the days when you HAD to buy locally ... the hobbyist is more educated ( minus the Nemo rage ) and wont take lightly bad advice / poor holding conditions / and a general lack of concern for being a professional store with strong ethics and animal husbandry skills < step off soap box > :mrgreen:

Sure would be nice to have at least one store here that took this hobby seriously AND treated their clients honestly/fairly :rolleyes:

well, why doesn't one of us open one? that'd be sweet... I wish.

No doubt.

Seems to be a common enough theme...

:idea:

There is the rub isn't it, as previous posters have said "you pay minimum wage, and you get Monkeys" That is partially true, but if you take the trouble to talk to some of these monkeys, there is a chance you will find one who knows what he is talking about, but in reality these kids are being paid to sell, NOT to offer advice.

Now if you go to Wai's, he will try to sell you whatever he thinks will make the most money for him. He has unabashedly told me that he needs the money to send his kid to College. Is that wrong??, everybody is in busines to make money, and ethics often take a back seat to profit. It is best not to ask for advice, because it is unlikely you will get honest and true advice.

To my way of thinking these Bulletin boards are the best way to gain the necessary knowledge to be a decent reefer. But even on these boards you can run into opinionated crap.

So, what do you do? Ask questions, look at people's tanks that are successful, and last but not least, make an attempt to sift out the crap. :rolleyes:

There used to be a place called Tails & Scales. Going there was like visiting a friends home. The prices where good and the animals healthy.

But a competitor saw their van with the Tails & Scales sign on it parked in their driveway (it was a home business) and had them cited for illegal advertizing.

Do these hints necessarily have to be subtle :question: I, for instance wanted a Fluval 204 in which to put my Chemipure (which I bought from J&L BTW at half the local price) The price at Pisces for the Fluval was $112.00, at J&L it was $74.95. Even with $14.00 shipping i still saved $23.00. Needless to sy I bought at J&L. In reality I should have told Mike I was going to do that, and perhaps he would have lowered the price.

I guess my point is that we need to tell them what we are doing, and perhaps these retailers will learn. :eek:

But I told them at < insert store here > that I could get the bulbs cheaper online and told the fella helping me to let his boss know so he would have a chance to be compettitive but he came back and said that the price was the price ... I gave them a chance to earn the business but they obviously thought that I was bluffing or just dont give a rats a$$ :rolleyes:

The best experiences I had with local LFS was at Petland about five years back. Of course, they have long since fired off the people who took a stand on things, and eliminated their SW section, I believe across Canada.

Those were the days. They sold me a book first. :eek: :cool:

One lone employee from those days remains there, and will always try to order in what I want so I don't have to drive across town for it. He also provides bags as needed....probably since our dogs keep their dog food section in business.

But let's face it. Have you ever tried talking to 'Mike' for example? I had him here to deliver a tank. Talked to him extensively about nori for tangs.

Lettuce there on Sunday. :rolleyes:

Why can't we have a store here with the mentality of J&L ? Are those guys rich or something...... :lol: :razz: :mrgreen:

Come on
 

AS someone who has worked his way through school, and supported himself at a LFs, I am dissapointed with some of the things I have heard.

One thing I think you all need to do is to not always look at the store, look at the employees you talk to...and see if you can trust them, test them, and if you dont, and they give you bad info, tell them, and help them learn, and learn with them, and maybe next time this happens to them, they will know the answer. There is a @#%load to learn out there and there is always something new to know

Learning is part of the hobby, making friends is a big part of the hobby (look at this site), what is so bad about that guys that is selling fish to feed his family, or what about that kid that works at a store, so he can spend every dollar he makes at the store, and towards the hobby. I have seen them all. Stores are in it to make money and help people learn at the same time, and as far as I have experienced, I have never seen someone intentionally misdirected, and I have been around...worked several places.

Dont look at them as the enemy.

I am not trying to change your opinions, I am only giving you mine, and have respect for many of your opinions, I have talked to people at several other stores, and your website is known about, and read, and thingss, opinions actually are taken into account. (I am quite sure of this, as I have some close friends at certain stores)

I hope I have not killed the mood, or started a huge debate, but I have just wanted to say sometihng for a while.


Thankyou all for your time,

Good luck in your reefkeeping
PS I do not check this E-mail account

I went in to shop with a brand new shiny credit card The shop may have something to with astology sympols or something. I was gonna buy my tank stand canopy Every thing Salt Chemicals everything. Every intention on cleaning out this card. Discussed what I needed We where up to almost 3 grand. Asked him if he could deal at all. Nope he can't budge at all I left. You going to tell me he can't even give me the taxes. Oh well I got nothing there. I agree the store here are not much on service. I got better service in Regina.

He said Regina.... :lol:

Re: Come on
 

It's not whether or not they are the enemy. It's about whether or not they are doing anything for the hobby. As far as I can tell, the mandate of most of the LFS' around here is to sell as much as possible, as fast as possible, to whoever they can. The fact that none of them have qualms with stocking and selling to newbies animals that should be left to experienced aquarists is fairly good evidence for this (octopuses, sea horses, sharks, sea apples, finicky anemones, fish that belong in temperate water tanks...). If it weren't for this site, I'd have been done with this hobby long ago, after trying to keep an anemone with NO fluorescent lighting in a 20 gal, as was suggested to me by one Calgary LFS which I will leave unnamed.

Why is it that LFS' seem to always stock the gear that most of us Canreefers agree is low-end. Crappy protein skimmers, rarely metal halides... I'm not sure I really know, but perhaps it is because they know they can get a better markup on stuff they can buy cheap from the wholesalers. Better to sell more for less than less for more right? There's more money to be made selling Big Mombasa skimmers or whatnot than Euroreefs.

Regarding employees, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling them what I think they are doing wrong... first off I'm not that aggressive, even though I am fairly outgoing, and secondly I'm rather young, and ageism against youth is rampant in our society. I have a feeling if I told any of them how I feel I'd just hear a bunch of BS back. I would also be willing to hypothesize that most LFS staff would be perfectly happy to give an enquiring customer a BS answer rather than admit they don't know and will check into it... after all, checking into it takes time, and time is money. Sorry, but I've worked in retail, and even in the computer industry, I was essentially told to lie to customers on a daily basis ("this product is perfect for you, there's nothing better or cheaper", even when the same product is half the price down the street). You can't tell me the majority of LFS' aren't the same way. I think it was Canadian Man who went into a local store when he was getting into the hobby, and walked out with a quote on everything he'd "need", for a measly $6,000 as I recall (55 gal tank or something as well, and you can bet it didn't include halides or a CA reactor). That's the way to get people into the hobby. :rolleyes:

It's not that there are no good, honest, intelligent LFS employees out there. But I'd venture to guess that they are the minority.

Sorry, had to get all that off my chest. :neutral:

That's bad, right :question:

Re: Come on
 

So this is your first post and this is the thread you choose to come in on ? ... sounds to me like you still work in a LFS :rolleyes: ... you should be disappointed because you have worked < still work ? > side by side with pet store owners/employees that gave out bad advice

It is the responsibility of the owner of the store to train the employees ... it is not the customers responsibility to train the staff ... besides which pet store employee is going to listen to the customer anyway ? ... their responsibility is to their boss the store owner ... if a employee does not know the answer to a question or is not sure of the compatability/care of fish/inverts then they should excuse themselves and seek advice from someone more senior ... I am sure no one here would fault a employee in a pet store for trying to ensure that they give the best information possible

No one has said that selling fish for a living is bad ... there ARE companies mentioned in this thread that do a excellent job of catering to the hobbyist at fair prices and they are selling fish for a living right ? ... maybe you should take a closer look at the last part of your statement though ... not intentionally misdirected ? ... so if they unintentionally misdirect a customer then it is OK ? ... and if they do it all the time because the pet store owner only cares about selling stuff and does not care how the employee gets the sales then he unintentionally misdirected the customer out of negligence dont you think ?

I dont think you get the whole point of this thread ... the LFS is not the enemy ... they are their own worst enemy ... we would happily support a LFS that did not try to gouge their customers ... offered a decent selection and at least tried to train the staff


Well I certainly hope that the stores take a close look at the opinions on this board and others so that they can improve ... why is it then that none of the LFS come on here and interact with a whole board full of potential customers ? ... see what types of fish/inverts/equiptment is in demand ? ... you would think that the first store to come on here and compete with the likes of J&L and cater to the hobby would have a captive audience right ?


On the contrary I for one appreciate the fact that you said something because it points out that in some ways you still dont get it and you view this as a attack on LFS ... if anything it is merely a blueprint for a LFS to follow to have huge success by making positive changes that will improve their ability to make a profit by having satisfied < repeat > customers ... I for one look forward to the day when we can get locally the products/price/service/knowledge/livestock that currently are available in other cities


You are welcome :razz: ... so does that mean that this is a new hotmail account to go with the new Canreef account ? :razz: :eek: ... jus razzing ya ... well maybe not .... na sure I am

I have to add my 2 cents + GST :biggrin:


I have always gone MO for most stuff (hardware) as it was way cheaper even with Shipping (sometimes even bringing in stuff from the US was cheaper) The markup the LFS have is high, they have room to move and still make money, but are unwilling, why because most people will pay what they are asking for a product because they do not know any better.

The reason they do not know is because they have not yet found a "Reef" Board to talk with other reefers. I know when I first got into a SW tank, I used the net to look for what I needed, but did not find that many boards. So I did rely on "Al's" for advice and someone there told me the Seaclone skimmer was excellent and worked well.. Not knowing better I bought it.. It worked fine for a few weeks, then doing searchings for seaclone and WHOA did I found out otherwise.. (this was quite awhile after the fact year or 2) I then reseached my next skimmer (my tank is not drilled so I neeed an )HOB) for 6 months I settled on a Remora Pro (awesome little devil) Anyways I returned to Al's and asked again whats a good HOB skimmer, someone again tried to sell the seacrap err seaclone., I opened with both barrels :biggrin: and mention how could they sell something for $175 that did not skim? then he tried to sell me a Prisim. Anyways I am rambling here. The LFS are generally bad place to go these days, fish never survive for vary long, a lot look skinny and sick.

Here is a true story.. before I was into SW tanks I was keeping discus (they can be very hard to keep) Anyways I bought 6 from Big Al's at about $30 a piece ) within 2 days all but 1 were alive ( I was smart I kept the bodies, frozen in the freezer) ANyways I happened to be talking to a lady who was selling off some of her Discus and I was over at her place looking to buy them. To make a long story short, she asked me what I had in the way of discus and I told her what had happened, she ask me of I got them out of tank such and such in isle such and such I said yes.. and then she says, You did not hear this from me but they had a disease go through that tank than wiped out 20+ discus in 2 days I promptly went from her place to Big Al's and inquired, they denied it, I said I have second hand knowledge that this was the case ( and that I had 5 of 6 die in 2 days) they were not going to give me a full credit. I said you better as this fish were diseased and I was not at fault for their deaths I got my full credit needless to say after stating I would mention this to everyone I talked to :biggrin:

I have to agree with most of the peoples opinions about the LFS stores I do not buy alot of fish, normally just the (cheaper fish) damsels, and clowns as I do not trust buying the more expensive fish from an LFS. I have also not done a live fish order yet either, I have only done a cleanup crew from JL) In the spring I plan on trying the live fish from JL


Anyways I think I babbled on enough.

Jim

Thankyou
 

Rasta. Thankyou for speaking your mind.

I have been reading the past boards the last couple days and have come to realize that you have perhaps made it difficult for one to perhaps comment from a store as there have been many personal attacks on stores and it has even got into namecalling. I think that there are many good people at many of the stores...most have at least one, and what I was trying to say is that I feel you cannot complain about the service they have provided withouit irst testing their knowlege...

At every store I have ever worked at, there has been training programs to a greater or lesser extent. At most, employees are encouraged to take books home and learn from reading. Training is expensive for a hobby that has/requires so much knowlege. All the stores have a pretty much "If you dont know ASK" policy with their fish employees.

I think that it has been made hard for a store to come on this board as to some of the things that have been said. Yes We still sell Seahorses, and Sea apples...but people ask for them, and despite warnings, they still want them. If we dont bring 'em in someone down the street will and they will get the customers business. One thing I have learned is that it is very very difficult to be a customers best friend and to still have them be a customer. Do you guys try to get to know anyone at the petstores? The way you guys seem to talk is that they are not worth knowing
When I worked at a shop, I had many people that would want your schedule so they could come in to see you, and only you...as you develop a personal relationship with them.

A very difficult thing to balance (customer friend).

Thankyou

PS Rasta = detective rasta

Things very quickly turn into LFS bashing don't they :question: :2gunfire:,
And it might be worth remembering that the Canreef members are but a drop in the ocean in the total business of a LFS.

Re: Thankyou
 

Yer welcome :smile:


The name calling is unfortunate and personally I dont agree with it on a public board ... however having said that the store must be held accountable for bad or misleading information ... most of this is from frustration at not having a LFS that is trustworthy. I have also found that the so-called expert is always too busy doing other things and nowhere to be found when needed.

It would be refreshing to believe that < training > to be true ... however the examples here indicate that although it is encouraged it may not be priority ... have any of the stores you worked for done " product knowledge " contests ? ... a sure fire way to encourage employee participation is reward and recognition ... a placque on the wall would also let the customers know who really knows their stuff ... Saturday afternoon animal husbandry techniques or fish/coral/invert identification would be a great way to bring young and old alike into this hobby as a mentoring program ... and on and on ... point is that stores need to do more to promote the hobby they support


Now a entrepreneur type like yourself might see this as a opportunity to build a relationship with a board like this would be a goldmine dont you think ? ... the fact that ALL the stores in this town have been guilty of some/all that has been said so far does not preclude them from making a effort to change


Not that difficult if you think about it ... if a fish store tells you no with a valid explanation as to why a particular animal would not be a good choice ( based on their knowledge of what you have / how much experience etc ) then you have to respect their ethics for the hobby and certainly go back to them in the future


:mrgreen: :razz:

Rasta,

Yes, most of the stores attempt at teaching product knowlege runs on a reward system. There are rewards for knowlege, length of time and sales at most stores. The interesting part is...that at almost every store...depending on the store, the reward has been a book, or a particularly large discount on one item or another. Now if that is not encouraging product knowlege I really do not know what is. I have seen stores put on seminars, have weekly meetings where new products are reviewed.


On another note..."so called expert". I dont think I ever called anyone an expert. There are very few people in this hobby that I would EVER call an expert as there is just so much to know. Yes, the most knowlegeble people are usually the ones who are busy. However, have you guys tried to develop a relationship with this so-called "expert". I think that taht is one of the most important things. its a hobby, think of lots of hobbys...you dont take your car to get detailed just anywhere, or you dont buy your RC car from someone who doesn't know what motor to putin it.You need to deveop that relationship. There are however a hell of a lot of people who are self proclaimed experts in this hobby. Both hobbyists and workers and you have to watch out for these people. They can talk the talk but can they walk the walk...

THERE IS JUST SO MUCH TO KNOW!

When I worked at a store, I can remember certain customers, ones tht were more on the friend side of the equation, coming in, after they have proved me wrong in something that I made sure I was not giving them a definant answer (grammar? my high school english teacher is rolling over in her grave). Anywyas,, they would come in to tell me I was wrong. It is good to learn together, and I have learned many things over the years from customers.

Lastly, some customers do not take no for an answer, whther you have a great explanation or not, and they will just buy it from the guy down the street. The reason someone opens a business is to make money. The reason people open a business catering to a hobby is (usually) because they enjoy that sort of thing. So next time you are in your LFS, why dont you ask an employee what they have at home ( they often, like customers love to talk about their own creatures, seriously), find out what they are into, and maybe ask them about an experience they have had with a particular thing( I know I was the first to tell people I could not keep a damn carnation alive).


It is agoldmine...but after reading some of the past posts, I think it is one that is surrounded by a mine-field, and a bunch of barb-wire...

Thanks again

PS it appears as though I myself have lied. . . 3 posts in under 24 hours...

I think it's good that this thread hasn't become an all-out flame war. It's come close, but looks like everyone is staying pretty calm. Three cheers for Canreef, you know what happens when the big message boards get onto the topic of LFS' (actually one of the greatest things about Canreef, other than that it's local people, is that most of us seem to really think before we answer, RC and RDO are just a lot of hot air most of the time).

Reefman90, can you tell us what LFS you work at? Maybe we can ask for you by name next time we're in. You can show us just what your store is doing to improve the reputation of Calgary LFS'.

There is definently a lot to know in this hobby. And I agree that no one will ever know everything. My problem is, LFS employees don't even seem to know the basics half the time. To prove my point, I'm tempted to start visiting LFS' and asking questions I know the answers to, just to see what the employees say. You can call me mystery shopper.

I guess you have to look at it from the customers eyes and being that you are that well known apparently you wont see it from our perspective ... we also have no clue as to who won the " book " this week so then have to sift through employees to find one that knows his/her stuff < and then find out if they read the book :razz: > and then phone to book an appointment to discuss what livestock they have that would be compatable in my tank :razz: ... one store was kind enough to offer a notification program whenever new stock came in but when asked if they could order specifically what I wanted they fell short on extending that courtesy and said they get what they get ...

I personally have not seen any info or advertizing regarding seminars < shark feeding frenzy excluded :razz: > and since everyone nowadays has at the minimum of a hotmail account if not more than a few email accounts then notification of seminars etc would be easy


Exactly ... a needle in a haystack ... so lets say you get lucky and find somebody that knows what they are talking about and the store they are working in has dead/dying fish constantly or outrageous prices on hardware ... what then ?


Good for you ... but I am afraid the majority of employees dont see it that way and wont go ask if they dont know ... and are still selling hippo tangs to newbies with 20G tanks


How much < % > of what you sell in the store irks your conscience when you tie the bag up and check it through ? ... how much of your livestock do you have control over when you place a order ? ...


As I said before ... all we need is ONE store to step up and be a shining example for the rest so that the bar can be raised ... if you really think that our local stores are top notch in all areas of reef keeping then you really ought to get out and take a look around and see what some stores in other cities are doing in this hobby :cool:



Dont worry we wont hold it against ya ... it was prolly not intentionally misdirected :razz: :mrgreen:

Cheers

Not as of yet, and maybe not at allmaybe I dont work at one anymore...maybe I will be at the next meeting....lol

Just curious if you could kindly elaborate

Just wanted to say that barely anything that goes through there, when I worked at a LFS Irks my mind...I would have to say that when I worked at a LFS that there are always a few questionable things...and there are always a few surprises...but you have to take into account who you are dealing with. KNow the person you are buying your fish from, do youir own research, through talking to employees, reading, and this board, and overall, what I am trying to get across, is to ask questions, guage responses, and perhaps even develop a criteria for your LFS employee to meet...

As to how much control....almost 100 %. But like I said, sometimes we are made to feel like we have to order moorshi idols, and seahorses, cause despite our warnings...these people want them. (your board helps steer people clear of that though.!

I have seen a few times however, a store trying a new supplier just for variety, and getting a whole shipment in dead...possibly cyanide...and that is something that is unavoidable...seriously...trying to offer the custiomer the lowest price and still stay in business is what we all try to do.


Just wanted to say that I have been to some of the online places...visiting their actual stores over the years...and it can be pretty dissapointing to see...however on a side note, I have never ordered online...from a consumer perspective that is. !

Have a nice evening

Reefman

Where are my manners! Welcome to Canreef, BTW. :cool:

I don't think anyone is really comparing the slate of LFS's to the slate of MO outfits. Yeah, a lot of them are probably disappointing to see for real. That's not really the issue. Any criticism I might level against a LFS myself personally is something I am equally apt to level against a MO supplier because I apply the same criteria to both categories. What constitutes a "positive customer experience" versus a "negative" one has nothing to do with whether I drove to the store itself, or whether something arrived on a plane or in the mail. There are MO outfits that has a spit-polish finish and others that seem plain amateurish in comparisons but neither one is immune to a purchase leaving a customer feeling he/she was serviced well, or not well, whatever the case may be.

I sitll stand by my own comments I made earlier about the customer needing to exercise common sense and good judgment. I think, however, that when one don't have the experience level yet to make those good decisions, that it is not an open invitation to surface some kind of predatory instinct and "go for the kill." Yes, business is in business to make money. But I think the onus has to be on the retailer, still, at some level, to ensure customer success is one their goals too. It is not in the vendors best interests to see a customer fail. Ok, so some customers don't listen, and you can't please everybody all the time and yadda yadda yadda. So there are no "100%" answers. But as far as "0% to 99%" goes, there is the implication that things can usually be made better, or made worse, and I think attitude can count for part of how much and in what direction.

Hey Reefman ... here is a story of a guy at a LFS that had a customer from out of space ... maybe you can relate ?

This guy comes in and is telling me that he has mastered the art of hypnotizing reptiles.. I just humor the guy and listen to his non-sense for a bit. I thought it would be pretty comical to watch so I let him show me his skill. I had a tokay gecko (a real biter) that was as mean as they come. If you don't know about geckos they bite and won't let go until they are good and ready.. So this guy is going to hypnotize the gecko. I get the thing out and it is on a table looking at him, he then leans down and gets his face about 2 inches from the gecko and starts talking to it. Well guess what ??? The gecko launched itself forward and attached to his face !! I almsot fell of of the stool laughing, there were about 5 regulars in the store at the time and we were all in tears laughing so hard. So the guy is trying to be all cool and calm and says that this is just part of the process... Well after about 15 minutes of him standing around waiting for the thing to let go, his girlfriend comes over and starts trying to coax the devil gecko of her mans face while telling us that she is better at hypnotizing than her man is... So she gets her face about 2 inches from where the gecko is attached and starts talking to the gecko.... Guess what ???? The gecko lets go and jumps onto her face and bites onto her nose.. At that point I totally lost it and could hardly breathe.. The whole time she is standing there with this gecko attached to her face she is telling us that she is an expert.. Then to top it all off, they bought the stinkin gecko to take it home and train it to prove us wrong.... I can't remember ever laughing that hard since...


:mrgreen:

I have a can of gasoline and I'm not afraid to throw it on the fire :lol: ...just kidding.

Many times the LFS is compared to the MO operation. Even stores in one city are compared to stores in another. Neither is a fair comparison. Every store has it's own business structure, complete with different operating costs and supply chains. Yes they do have to make a profit to stay in business. One thing to keep in mind...Vancouver has the lowest prices in the hobby in North America!

I hear all too often from the LFS owner that they get tired of people entering the store and taking a great deal of their time asking questions and then going and buying wherever it is cheapest. It works both ways. Many people want the "expertise" and advise of the LFS but often don't want to pay for it. Yes I do agree...this "expertise" and advise is sadly lacking in many LFS.

I see your point and I deal with this on a regular basis in my line of work. BUT ME, MYself...And...I Don't even talk to people in LFS anymore. WHY? Well because I have no need for their expertise because I rarely find any of that. It's seems that most of what they speak of is BS or outdated knowledge. Now I don't refer to all the LFS in Calgary but of the ones I have visited. The closest LFS to me Disgusts me every time I walk in. All the fish I have purchased from this store have survived and are doing great. Heck my last fish was purchased from there but.....I said as few words as possible and got asked as little as possible.

"Can I get that Naso tang please?"

"Sure, which one would you like?"

"The fat healthy one please! :biggrin: "

"Here you go"

Cashier asks
"Phone number please?"

"Thanks, see Ya"


Now I knew what I wanted in this case but I would have very much enjoyed hearing something along the lines of this for a conversation with the fish room guy.

"Can I get the Naso tang please?"

"Sure but first, what size of tank are you putting it in?"

" Well it's going in my 230g tank"

"That's great sir, I wanted to make sure the fish would have sufficient room as you probably already know that Naso tangs get very large and need large tanks!"


If I owned a fish store I can 100% guarantee ANYONE that my staff would volunteer this type of information. All my current staff (not in the fish industry) are trained to ASSUME that the customer doesn't know specifics that he/she needs to know. I have Lost many "spur of the moment" sales because I was HONEST with my customers and Validated their purchase with my shop. These customers almost always return to buy the "product they truly needed" and do it over and over again because they now respect that we are looking out for their wants and needs.

PHEW. This thread drains my energy reading it. :rolleyes:

CM...it tires me out too, but don't forget it works both ways. You may not need the expertise but the vast majority of the people out there do (like many LFS owners or employees themselves). Take a look at the thread on RC that mirrors this one. Most people there seem to be offended that an employee asks what environment they are putting their purchase into. Obviously some people are above the "inquisition" (not intended for you).

All consumers wants and needs are very different. It's extremely hard to cater to every customer, no matter what industry. From my point of view, and it has been exressed clearly on this board and others, price is a major factor in a purchase. The attitudes of too many are that they will buy it where it is cheapest, with regard of service or quality.