Prodibio Review(Conclusion)
 

Well it would seem that I have been chosen by our Canreef sponsor Aqua Digital to do the Probio Reef Kit Review. Yay me! To all you people that applied to Aqua Digital but didnt win, dont feel bad, it just means that your tank is not as screwed up as mine. :lol:
A little history:
Here is a current FTS
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/FTSJUL10.jpg

The System is 120 G display with a modified Oceanic#3 sump, Reeflo Dart Return, ASM G1X skimmer that is heavily modified with my own intake design, meshweel, drilled air venturi, etc. more can be seen in my tank thread
http://canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57551
I run a Neptune Apex Controller, 2 k4 korillas for circulation, and my lighting is a Aqualight pro 2x 250w running Phoenix 14k bulbs. TLF reactors in the sump, 1 with 1c carbon and 1 with 500ml biobeads.

Here is my skimmer in action with about 18 hours skimmate production.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...oy/skimmer.jpg

My bioload consists of Kole Tang, Purple Tang, Powder Blue Tang, Clownfish Pair, Lawnmower Blennie, McKoskers Flasher Wrasse, Coral Beauty, Cleaner Wrasse, Orange Spot Watchman Goby, Yellow Clown Goby.
Cleanup crew consists of about 8 turbo and astrea snails, 4 nassarius snails, Sand Sifting Starfish and a Tiger Tail Cuke.
Corals: Various Acro's, Milli's, Montis, (more on these later) 1 Hammer and 1 frogspawn, 1 ricordia, 1 chalice, Porites, Stylo, Bird Nest, Pocillopora, and probably a few others i cant remember or dont know the name of.

My current Parameters are:
PO4 .09ppm Hanna Checker
Nitrate 5ppm Salifert
Alk 10 API
Cal 420 Salifert
Mag 1250 Seachem
Temp 78 to 81 as is controled by my Apex with the Lights/Heater/ Fans
pH 8.1- 8.3
My pH is on the higher side because all of my topup's are done with Kalkwasser.

Weekly waterchanges are between 10 and 20% recently and all of my levels are checked and adjusted using Randy's 2 part recipie 2 with supplies from Little Silver Max.

Issues: Well I really dont have rampant algae problems or anything like that, just a little on the sandbed and the green dust on the glass that need to be cleaned about every 3 days. But what I do have is some corals with virtually non existant PE. All of my Acros, Milli's , Prostratas have no PE and the colours are terrible. Growth is pretty good and all of the corals are growing great bases. Montis, Stylos, etc all seem to be fine and have good PE.
I have tried everything from Red Bug Treatment, massive WC (hence the 20% weekly) lowering levels, raising levels, coral frenzy, stray voltage, you name it. Nothing is working except the WC did help the colours out a little perhaps but not the PE to any extent.
So here we sit today, perhaps it is a nutrient issue and hopefully the Probio Reef Kit can help out. I will be doing weekly doses of 1 vial of strontium and bi-weekly doses of 1 vial each of Biodigest, Bioptim, Iodine and report back weekly here. Once my Levels are down i will begin dosing the Reefbooster vials.

Here is the Reef Kit
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...merboy/kit.jpg

Here are some of the most affected corals for reference:
This is supposed to be an Ultimate Prostrada. Nothing ultimate about it, bad colour and no pollyps.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral2.jpg

Here is a 2 tone acro that I got from Marie. It is supposed to be a vibrant purple with BIG lime green pollyps. See any Pollyps?
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral4.jpg

This is supposed to be a Marshall island tricolour: Looks pretty uni-colour to me
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral1.jpg

This one is supposed to be yellow with bright blue tips
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral3.jpg

A blue Milli believe it or not
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral5.jpg

A rose milli :sad:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral6.jpg

So that basically sums it up and this review should last for about 3 months. Hopefully we can see some real changes for the better. Like I said i will be posting updates about every week or so and feel free to ask any questions.

Hey Darren have you looked into water movement. All your params seem fine. I wasn't getting very good PE in the corner tank until I added a PH and moved another. Overnight, a big difference. Just a though anyway.

I really like the packaging on these, are they plastic tubes or glass?

I'm pretty sure they are glass

They are glass. Comes with a little rubber tube that fits over the end of the vial and you snap off the tip.

Did your order of Prodibio from us arrive? Have you noticed some results?

Yes, I've received it. Have only used it for the one dose so still kinda early to tell.

Okay! Great!

Ps. Accudoser II on the way!

Oh ya forget about me Ian ;)

LOL, I will never forget you! Your order is in customs as we speak! You will have it possibly by friday along with a little something else! :biggrin:

Have you considered a larger skimmer? I used to run an ASM G3 on my 120gal... you've only got a G1. That seems pretty small in my opinion.

:biggrin: I'm a happy camper as always, interested to see how this stuff works!

Darren I agree with whatcanyedo, might want to look into an upgrade although it doesn't look like a massive bioload it might help your problem.

Yes I have tried moving them around, pointing directly at, pointing away etc nothing seemed to make any difference. Even ran them on a wave timer on my Apex. Nada. However I am going to get 2 of the new evolutions and run them on a full wave program fairly soon.

Well yes and no. They do rate them for 180G but i know as well as everyone else that is crap. Having said that I know that my mods have helped because that thing pulls out crap like you wouldnt believe. With the sump baffle mods and skimmer intake mods pretty much anything that is skimmable doesnt get past it. Christy did offered me her ER 180 to run with it so I could try and see skimming was an issue however I just havnt got around to it yet.

I would take her up on that offer, I would of bought a new Euroreef if they hadn't stopped making them as I loved my old small one.

I will at some point but I want to see what effect the probio has on the tank first. Plus you would think if I was underskimmed that much that I would be having huge issues and that 2 months of 20% weekly water changes would have had more of an effect

The kit provided is the NEW improved formula from ProdiBio that all Aqua Digital dealers have started to receive last week, it is easy to tell the difference ;)

http://reefbuilders.com/2010/05/12/b...tim-biodigest/

Easier dosing, less dosing in some elements and improved performance.

Looking forward to seeing the results.

Probio Review (week 1 update)
 

Its been 1 week since I first started using this system so it was time for a 10% WC, some tests, and a dose of 1 ampule of strontium.
Test parameters were as follows:
SG 1.025
Alk 9 (will raise to 11)
Cal 520 (used a brand new kit, guess the old one was FUBAR despite
having 1 year left to expiry)
Mag 1440
Phos .04ppm
Nitrate 6ppm

Observations: Haven't noticed any big changes in the tank this week but I do think my sand bed does look cleaner and I think I only cleaned the glass once this week. As for my indicator corals (the ones with no PE and/or poor coloring) I have'nt noticed any real changes. However my wife commented that she thought that the corals that weren't struggling were looking better. She doesnt stare incessantly at the tank 20 times a day like I do so she may notice the changes easyer than I do. :smile:
She made the comment that my Dark green Digitata looked "Greener and fuzzyer" and my Pocillopora looked "fluffyer". All very scientific, I know :wink:
Stay tuned.......

Somewhat useless trivia: These are Ampoules (or Ampules). They are glass and are most commonly used for pharmacuticals. If you've ever seen the film "The Deep", the shipwreck is full of Morphine Ampoules.

They are hermetically sealed and sterile. Great for longer term storage and use in inhospitable environments. Recyclable too !

Week 2 update
 

Well not alot to report this week with last week being just a stronti dose. The Levels are starting to come inline and some of the corals appear to be changing colours, most noticably the purples appear to be getting more vibrant. Still no changes on the PE though :sad:
Levels this week are :
SG 1.025 Alk:9 Cal:490 Mag:1380 Nitrate:7ppm Phos:0.00ppm
The Cal is starting to come back into range and the Phos is great now, but not really sure what happened to the Nitrate.
This week I dosed ampoules of BioDigest, BiOptim, Iodi, Stronti and will continue to watch.

week 3 update
 

Ok week now and I just did my WC of 16G and dosed the recommended 1 ampuole of stronti.
Parameters today were:
SG 1.025 CA:475 Alk:10 Mag:1320 Nitrate:5 Phos:.02
Observations: Sandbed nice and clean and I havnt cleaned the viewing glass since last week! My skimmate is still black and chunky but the volume appears to be reduced. Filter bags are coming out black and I am changing them every 2 days. My water is probably the clearest I have ever seen, all bright and sparkly and no hint of yellow. In fact I noticed when I did my WC today that the buckets of old water looked as clean as the buckets of new water, usually they have that slight yellow colour.
My polyp extension is no where to be seen yet but who knows.
Here is a picture of a coral frag that I got from Marie. It doesnt show in the picture but It has developed a blue tip on the closest branch and the edge of the growth on the base has turned blue. Perhaps she can chime in as to wether hers has ever shown signs of blue tips?
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...merboy/ya2.jpg
This is the triclour 3 weeks ago and today.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral1.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...merboy/tc2.jpg

This is the rose milli 3 weeks ago and today.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...boy/coral6.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...merboy/rm2.jpg

None of the colours have changed much on any of the corals yet

Looks like things are going really well ;)

The reason for no colour changes is due to not dosing the reef booster as yet.

When starting prodi you have to give the base elements 6 weeks before starting the reef booster, this is to ensure no spikes in nutrients. Basically you are building the biological side first to support the nutrient level of the Reef Booster.

Polyp extension will follow, everything takes time, it is a slow process on purpose as to not stress the system.

Still in the UK but keeping track of this great review from here ;)

patience my friend remember not all SPs that are growing and sustaining require PE polyp Ext. some of mine were amazing colors when I had SPS , however i didnt have that much or little to none PE

Tagging along to see your results!

HeHe If this doesnt work out I am going to blame the previous owner of the tank for leaving some toxic residue on the glass or something :twised:

week 4 update
 

Nothing new to really report this week. Did a 16G water change and added my doses of Stronti, Digest, Iodi, Optim. Levels this week are
SG:1.025 Alk:9 Cal:450 Mag:1320 Nitrate:7 Phos:.05
I am only cleaning the front glass once a week and even then it doesnt need it that bad. Water is crystal clear. Coral colouration is changing a bit. Some corals are fading out, some are getting more vibrant, and there is no change in the PE on any of them.

give it time it takes 6 weeks to stabilise and can take longer with a more mature system.

The fading or lightening of corals is the positive change, once I see PO4 at zero then we can look at adding reef booster. If your system is really mature with a nutrient sink you may need to give the system a help in hand with ultra power phos, this goes with any ULNS. These systems can only reduce low levels of PO4 and all advise using phos remover to get levles down first, but as we are assessing the power of Prodibio the review is best run without any external intervention where at all possible.

Thanks for the words of support Michael. Steady as she go's

Week 6 update
 

Well there was no update for week 5 because I was away in the Bahamas for 10 days :mrgreen: however my fish sitter did do my weekly dose of strontium for me.
There were a few issues that had to be dealt with while I was away. 1 was a malfunctioning skimmer that would not stop overflowing and another was a Carbon issue.
I have the skimmer issue sorted out but for the time being I am going to be running 2 skimmers in my sump. Christy was kind enough to set up her ER cs6-2 in my sump while my skimmer was out of service and I now have my skimmer fixed and running right along side it. It will be interesting to see how the 2 compare and i am hoping the tank likes it.
The carbon issue is that i had my carbon tumbling too aggressively and as a result it has been pulverizing itself to death. I have since removed it completely from the system for the time being and want to see the effects on both my corals and fish. Some of my corals now are looking in very poor shape and my Coral Beauty has HLLE and my Purple tang may be showing early signs. I am hoping that the carbon was the cause of both issues as I suspect that it had been happening for some time.
So today was WC day and dosing of all of the other elements and all of my weekly tank chores. I also returned my filter socks to service. I had removed them for the ease of the tank sitters.
Parameters this week are CAL 460 ALK 9 MAG 1275 NITRATE 10 PHOS 0.0

Good, the PO4 is gone this is the biggest hurdle, however the nitrates are still sligjtly up which after 4 weeks points to a nutrient sink.

I think the list of recent events in the update post has not helped with tank stability, so lets see how things lie in 2 weeks and we may have to push you over the spike with some help.

We are still looking for a BM reviewer so I am happy to bolt that on if you do need another skimmer.

Micheal
Which skimmer were you looking for a review on? Running 2 skimmers at the moment is fine with me but if you have something that is slightly oversized for my system (the direction i was leaning anyhow) I am more than willing to give it a try.

The BM-150pro review slot is still open

best drop me a pm to discuss

Week 7 review
 

Today i did a 32G Water change so that I could totally clean out my sump. There was still some carbon dust stuck to things and a small amount of detritous in the corners etc. I wanted to make sure there were no sources of Nitrates coming from the sump.
Parameters this week: Cal-440 Alk-11 Mag-1260 Nit-5 Phos-0
I dosed 1 ampoule of Strontium this week.
Observations this week: Not much change, Algae is still non existant, coral colours are changing slowly, some Blue tips are starting to show on some. Yellow acro is now green. Blue Milli is a fugly white/brown, and 1 acro seems to have perhaps suffered a case of pollyp bailout on the tips of the branches. Hard to describe but the tips have seemed to quit growing upwards and are now getting thicker as the tissue on the stem seems as if it wants to grow up and over the tips and envelop it. Very wierd.
And for those that are interested in a comparison so far of the ASM Vs. ER skimmers. The ASM is way easyer to clean out and way more stable to changes in water level. When i shut my return pump off the sump fills up about 2 " above normal and the ER floods its cup but the ASM doesnt change at all. I will keep fiddleing with both in an effort to fine tune the skimmate but the ER seems to be very fussy on how wet you can run it without overflowing it and it is too dry for my liking. The ASM currently pulls out about 2X the amount but it is wetter and lighter.
I may step up my dosing/WC schedule now to every 5 days in an effort to get the Nitrates right down. It would appear that the sand and/or rock may be a bit of a sink. Michael, feel free to chime in here on how you think the best course of action to continue on here would be.

Don't forget to mention again that you have heavily modified your ASM skimmer and the ER is stock. :wink:

The ASM has a mesh mod and the intake mod that I designed. The ER has a mesh mod and the gate valve mod.

ERs work best in about 8 inches of water I think. Maybe give it a boost. It worked awesomely for me and I wish it would work on my current tank. I still think your ASM sucks balls :razz:

LOL well at least the pump stays put :razz: YOUR ER pump has fallen out twice this week already :sad:
Not to worry. i'm still finding its "happy spot" then were off to the races.
Right now it is sitting in 11" of water, Think I should raise it up some? I have had to close the gate valve off 3/4 of the way to get the bubble column about 1/2 way up the neck.

Week 8 update
 

So I have upped my dosing and WC schedule to 5 days from 7 in an attempt to hammer the Nitrates lower.
Tests were Cal-430 Alk-10 Mag-1260 Phos-0 Nitrate-still 5 :sad:
The tank looks great, no algae what so ever. If it weren't for little spots of corraline growing all over the front glass then i would probably only need to clean it every 2 weeks. :biggrin: Some of my non Acro corals look fabulous but the Acro/etc group still have no polyps but some of the colours are now definately starting to improve, Perhaps we've finally turned the corner?
Does anyone know the consequences of testing Nitrates and phosphates at different times of the day? I am wondering if doing my tests mid-afternoon after my WC and 1 or 2 fish feedings would affect the numbers? Perhaps all tests should be performed first thing in the morning or something. ?

I definitely try to do all my testing either right before my WC or a few hours afterwards to let the water mix and circulate. I don't do any testing after feeding, even though its a small amount of food in a large volume I still like to get a more "standardized" measurement without the food possibly influencing it.

Week 9 review
 

Another 10% WC and a dose or stronti this week.
Here is the tests for the week and I did them first thing this morning so that they wouldnt be affected by the morning feeding.
Nitrate:4 Phos:0 Ca:425 Alk:11 Mag:1240
No new observations this week although I think some colour is coming back to the Blue Milli but its not Blue. Some of the other Acros that have been struggling appeared to have sufered some form of pollyp bailout and then a regrowth of tissue over the corralite opening. I am not exactly sure what is happening here but the corals look along way from dead or anything and i guess time will tell.

ALK is way too high!

aim for 7-8