Help With KH
 

I'm using a Salifert test kit and my KH is at 15. It came with a 7.5 check test and it tests at 8.0. I assumed that the kit was crap but after doing the test on the check bottle that came with it now I'm a little concerned. My KH has always been at this level. Everything else that I have tested for is good. Cal 420/MG1440/PH8.3/ sal 1.025 My parameters have been like this for 2 years. How is this possible without a meltdown? I'm running a calcium reactor with a bubble every 2 seconds and the effluent is a steady drip at 6.51. But according to the test kit it is at 7.3 Also a Kalk reactor that runs with my ATO. What do I do to bring it down? I also think my colors should be alot brighter, I think they are a little on the brownish side.

I dont think 15 dkh is high enough to cause a tank crash. I accidentally pushed my alkalinity up to 22 dkh once for several days and all I lost was one acropora.

I havent used salifert in the last two years. I didnt know they could test pH and came with a referance sample. I thought only Seachem did that?

To bring your alkalinity down just shut off your calcium reactor and kalkwasser reactor for a few days and it should come down quickly on its own. Test daily to make sure it doesnt drop too low. To speed up the process do a water change. When you start them up again you may want to lessen the flow through the reactor some more.

Another way you can check the accuracy of a test kit is to test some newly mixed saltwater. Your results should be similar to these http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

I will shut them both down for a bit. I had the same readings before I used both reactors which has me baffled. So keep the bubble count the same and turn down the effluent coming out? Growth is good and no nuisance algae and also, corraline growth is'nt like it used to be. Would this high alk have anything to do with my coral colors? A pink poccilopra I got from you is a wine color in my tank

Regardless of what the flow through is you want the internal pH at about 6.5 so turn down both appropriately. Coral color is mostly a product of lighting with overall water chemisty and feeding coming second in my opinion. Everyone has different opinions on what works it seems and I've seen beutiful colors with all methods so I dont know. Get your alkalinity down to the normal range and take it from there I guess.

So it turned off the kalk reactor and shut off my ph monitor for the calcium reactor. The effluent is still going. Well nothing has changed in the alk. Should I shut off the effluent? I also checked my test kit with some freshly mixed IO and it tested at what it is supposed to be at so the test kit is not the problem. What next? Should I be concerned with a kh of 15? It has been like this for 2 years. The old saying "if it aeint broke don't fix it" So is it broke?

Yes, 15dkh is too high and you should fix it...slowly You're overdosing on Ca/Alk. Shut off your Ca reactor and Kalk and monitor the alk daily. It will come down.

Shutting off the Ca reactor means stopping the flow through it completely. If you just reduce the flow, you might actually INCREASE the output of the reactor. Restart it once the tank Alk is down to 9 or so. Then check the alk the next day to see that it is staying at that level.

If the alk starts to rise again, you'll have to dial back that Ca reactor. Run it at higher pH.

Thanks guys. I turned it right off now. The calcium actually went up to 440.

Ok so got my kh down to 10 and have been maintaining that for about a 2 weeks with my calcium reactor back on line. Now my cal is at 360 and i'm running my mag a liitle high right now at 1500. I have yet to put my kalk reactor back on line. If I do will it bring up my calcium and make my alk to high again? My calcium reactor is set at 20 bubbles per minute and the effluent is at 40ml per minute. Any suggestions on tweeking the calcium reactor?

Although SPS might not be hit hard by a single ALK swing with a ALK swing from 6-7 to 12-13 you will start loosing any zoa colonies you have in the tank. They are a great indicator to ALK changes for some reason.

Salifert is notoriously inaccurate with their KH kits regardless of that little bottle of calibration solution. They seem fairly reliable for calcium, and their magnesium kits are pretty good. The Salifert KH kits generally test 2 dKH higher than actual KH level (compared to using a colorimeter, or Elos kit which is quite reliable for KH). So your KH is probably closer to 13 dKH than 15 dKH. Have you double checked your techniques? A friend of mine thought he was at 15 dKH, but it turned out he was at 7.5 dKH because he was using the quick method of the test where you use half the drops.

It sounds like you just purchased this Salifert kit, how do you know that your KH has always been at this level? Have you been testing it using other methods? Are you simply assuming that alkalinity has been at 15 (or 13?) dKH this whole time? If so, it is possible to not have a meltdown simply because it has always been at that level. Critters are resilient, and steady numbers are less detrimental than abstract numbers.

Turn off both calcium and kalk reactors, manually dose just calcium to keep it at your normal level until the alkalinity drops to be in the 7's (in the 9's by the salifert kit). As alkalinity drops the calcium will go up (although your tank may use it up before you notice this, but be aware it may not take as much dosing of calcium as you may think). Once the calcium and alkalinity are balanced turn the reactors back on. You should be testing calcium and alkalinity at least on a bi-weekly basis to make sure the numbers aren't getting skewed as reactors aren't perfect. You should always have some powered calcium and alkalinity supplements on hand to supplement when the numbers have gone out of balance.

Thanks Myka! Can you look at my last post as things have changed for the better and now just looking to tweek the calcium reactor and if I should put the kalk reactor back on line. Sorry, forgot to mention. Since my first post I have switched new test kits. Elos now for KH

You're welcome. How much difference did you find between the Elos and Salifert?

Is that 10 dKH with the Elos? You should aim to be in the 7's for dKH with an Elos kit. Turn off the reactor for a day or a few (depending how many corals you have) to lower the alkalinity further.

Calcium and alkalinity won't magically balance themselves just by turning the reactors off or on. Both calcium and kalk reactors add calcium and alkalinity in fairly balanced amounts, so turning these reactors on or off will raise or drop both elements at a fairly even rate. You can't get either of these reactors to just dose one element, the reactors dose both simultaneously.

You need to dose calcium manually to bring it up around 400-420 ppm to be in balance with the alkalinity in the 7's. Kent Turbo Calcium or Fauna Marin Calcium chloride are two of my favourite calcium products. For alkalinity Seachem Reef buffer 8.3 and Fauna Marin Sodium bicarbonate are my two favourite alkalinity products. You should have a calcium and alkalinity product on hand at all times as calcium and alkalinity will get out of balance on occasion and need to be manually dosed to avoid situations like you have now. There will be times when you will need to dose alkalinity to bump it up a tad to keep it in balance, and there will be times (like now) that you need to dose calcium to bring it into balance.

You understand what I mean by balanced calcium and alkalinity?

If you go test calcium and alklinity right now, then dose calcium to bring it up by 25 ppm or so, then test alkalinity again you will find that the alkalinity will have dropped a bit. By dosing the calcium that is needed you will help to bring the alkalinity down as well.

I did not test between the 2 test kits. I want my kh where it is right now. I just want to bump my calcium up tp 420. I don't dose with anything and never have, other than some Zeo products. Maybe I'm misunderstanding things. Is that not what the calcium reactor and kalk reactor does? If it matters my SPS are really hairy with polyp extension.

Why do you want your KH at 10 dKH? In order to have a balanced calcium and alkalinity you would need to keep your calcium close to 430 ppm.

Balanced Calcium and Alkalinity: (as per Randy Holmes-Farley)

360 ppm to 0 dKH
370 ppm to 1.4 dKH
380 ppm to 2.8 dKH
390 ppm to 4.2 dKH
400 ppm to 5.6 dKH
410 ppm to 7 dKH (natural seawater)
420 ppm to 8.4 dKH
430 ppm to 9.8 dKH
440 ppm to 11.2 dKH
450 ppm to 12.6 dKH
460 ppm to 14 dKH

Calcium and Alkalinity need to be kept in balance for optimal absorption by corals and inverts. Keeping the levels elevated (in comparison to NSW values) the only thing you will accomplish is a greater rate of calcium precipitation in such places as powerheads, pumps, heaters, etc where heat is added to the equation. Elevated levels will not increase the rate of absorption by corals, that's an old reefer's tale. The balance of calcium and alkalinity to build corals is similar to the balance of calcium and phosphorus to build human bones - insufficient balance will lead to osteoporosis.

Calcium and kalk reactors for the primary dosing of calcium and alkalinity, but they are not perfect. They will not provide calcium and alkalinity in perfect balance, and reefs will not absorb in perfect balance. The balance will get misaligned over time with one of the elements getting either too high or too low. This is why testing on a regular basis is required...technology (dosers, reactors, drips, etc) has not been able to take the place of test kits yet. Reactors are not set and forget, neither are dosing pumps, neither are any sort of calcium and alkalinity supplementation. Is that more clear?

Thanks. I'm ok with calcium at 440. I'm not new at this as I've had a tank for 9 years but just struggle a bit with the chemistry of things. I just wanted to know if I could up my calcium by putting my kalk reactor online again and a little tweeking with my calcium reactor or if I have to does with something else manually. If it cant be done with the equipment I have than I might as well take them both off line.

Oh I know you're not new to it, but why do you want numbers that high? Do you have a reason? At least you are bumping up your calcium to match the elevated alkalinity you want to keep. That's a good step. Seeing as you want to keep the alkalinity that high, you may as well keep the calcium and kalk reactors online right now to hold the 10 dKH alkalinity level you are at, and just manually add extra calcium to get it up to the 440 ppm you want it at.

Basically, all you need to do is manually dose the tank until the numbers are balanced on that chart I posted. It doesn't matter where on the chart they are as long as they are balanced, then turn the kalk reactor up or down a bit (it's easier to fiddle with than the calcium reactor) to raise or lower your now balanced numbers to the ones you want. Get it? If not, you can send me your phone number and I will try to explain better that way. :D

But no, you can't raise calcium without raising alkalinity with either of your reactors. You have to manually dose whichever number is low, in your case calcium. You shouldn't have to manually dose very often when you have reactors (say once every 2-4 weeks), but you will have to. No reason to take them offline...

I have read that kh should be 7-11 so figured 10 would be ok. And the magic 420 is ideal. I had been running this tank with a kh of 15 for about 2 years. Since i've got it down the corals look alot fuzzier. I picked up some Kent Turbo Calcium and will be slowly bringing up the calcium. I can't adjust my kalk reactor at all. It's a SWC. I have kind of a weird setup for it. I have my ATO setup up so when it turns on the pump for my fresh water it also turns on the kalk reactor. So i have one resevoir of fresh RO water for the kalk reactor (IO bucket) and another resevoir with fresh RO water (garbage can) that is mixed with epsom salts. So 2 lines going in to my sump for top up. Added pic if confusing.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...lube/ATO-1.jpg

Well, it's not a bad idea to hover in the 10-11 dKH range for awhile considering how long you figure it was high for. If you feel like experimenting after a few weeks, you may find your corals are even fuzzier if you drop the KH down further. Mine definitely show best polyp extension in the 7s. I can tell by looking at my corals if my KH is out of the happy range. My corals don't seem to show any immediate signs when calcium is out of range though...I wish they did!! :D

Well, you're just going to have to add the calcium and see where your alkalinity ends up. Adding 50 ppm calcium will definitely drop the alkalinity further. However, if you add say 30 ppm to bring you to 410, and that drops your alkalinity to 7 dKH don't add more calcium - these are balanced numbers. Just wait a few days to see if your reactors will raise cal and alk on their own, or you may have to turn your reactor up a tad. Just remember that you want to balance the numbers at this point, then mess with the reactor which will raise/lower both cal and alk at the same rate keeping it balanced to whichever level you want to get to. Messing with reactors is way easier to explain in person/on phone. :lol: