Plumbing Nightmare
 

So after spending the last couple weeks tediously plumbing in my new sump with a Herbie overflow and adding a inline UV and Chiller I just realized I had been using ABS Cement to glue all the PVC together ($200 dollars worth of parts). Everything is holding together with no leaks but does this mean disaster down the road? I'm in a high rise so I have to be extra careful of leaks. Do I have to bite the bullet and scrap it all?

I'm pushing about 450GPH at 6 feet so I'm not sure what PSI that would translate into.

Any insight would be extremely appreciated!

i think you should be ok.. the best thing to do would be (if possible) to run your overflow off a rubbermaid container and have your waterflow system all running and let it run for a day or two. and make sure everything is all good. if you want to make extra sure run it for a few days.. just an idea. i ran my overflow with my return pump for 24 hours to make surer everything was working good... thats my advice. hope it helps

I wouldn't trust the joints over time. There's a reason why they make separate glues for ABS and PVC.

Check with the manufacturer to see what they say, but I guarantee that they (probably Oatey, right?) will tell you that they won't be held liable for any damage since you've "misused" the product.

Thanks guys for the quick reply, I will give Oatey a call tomorrow. I have a bad feeling it would hold fine for quite a while only to spring a leak while I'm at work a year down the road.

I would say if you rent: get tenants insurance, so that if it fails, and water goes down multiple floors, you would be considered liable personally for all the repair. Even if it is a strata building you are responsible for any damage to other units.

If you own, same thing. Get some liability insurance on your policy and discuss with the insurance agent about fish tanks.

Mine covers any damage to other condos, all my equipment, but does not cover the contents of the tank.

If you own in a strata apartment building you also need four walls insurance so you are covered if a pipe in the wall brakes or leaks reguler insurance does not cover this. I use to be on a strata board and the building we were in had this problem with one owner he thought it was the stratas responsibility if a pipe broke inside one of his unity walls. no he lost in cort. once you buy an apartment that is strata you own the pipes inside your walls. strata will cover any pipe that run down hall ways or in common areas as that is what your strata fees are for maintanence of common areas and mechanical roomsand such.

By the way four walls insurance is cheep.
Bill

Bill

It's funny you brought this up as I'm right in the middle of a claim, I had a faulty RO/DI unit that flooded my kitchen and all the hardwood in my unit. The strata covered the floors but their deductible was 5K so I had to make a claim against my personal insurance to cover that. All I can say is I never want to go through that again. Part of this whole plumbing exercise was because I had to move the tank so they can replace the floors. I guess I have to laugh at this point, this whole build process started in November and I don't even have any fish yet, just a Skunk shrimp and some hermit crabs.

I would just preform a small test.

Glue an extra fitting to some extra pipe using the same ABS glue you used on the tank. Let it sit overnight and see if you can pull it apart.

If you can't pull it apart or it takes a lot of force to do so you'll be fine. Typical PVC pipe applications usually see pressure in the range of 40 to 60 psi. Your tank shouldn't expose it to more than 3 psi so it's a very low pressure application. Also if a leak does start it'll start as a slow drip, the fittings aren't going to just explode open.

You'll be fine :)

So I gave Oatey a call and I was really surprised how helpful the guy was. He said it will act like a "filler" as it hardens and will initial hold the pipe together but as it expands and contracts over time it will cause leaks as the purpose of the cement is to melt the plastic together. (Pretty much what fkshiu said) He of course would not recommend leaving it that way, plus the color of the cement are very different which could lead to denial if a claim was ever made. I'm going to bite the bullet and redo it, if not just for the peace of mind. I really do appreciate all you help everyone!

What would cause it to expand and contract over time? what is the coefficient of linear expansion of PVC over ABS glue


It isn't my place to tell you to leave it alone but if you did it would likely be still working fine many decades from now.

All the pieces leading from the overflow down to the sump will NOT be under pressure. You could just add a layer of silicone on the outside along of all the joints and it should be fine. No pressure = no problem.

The return lines from the pump up or anywhere there is pressure will need to be more secure.

Hopefully this will save you having to redo ALL the plumbing and only leave you with some to be fixed.

The return PVC lines for my skimmer are a combination of threaded fittings and press fit with a little teflon tape, no solvent or glue whatsoever. Been that way for two years, no problem. The 'pressure' of the flow is so low through those lines, it's unlikely to ever leak unless I mess with it. A little salt creep is all I've had and I simply wipe that up from time to time. Not sure I'd do that with a lengthy drain or return, but I've found that new PVC and ABS material fits together very snugly if you push and twist enough. The only concern would be vibration from a return pump or something similar, which may shake things loose over time, but you've glued yours and even with the 'improper' solvent, you'll likely be ok. The silicone recommendation around the outside sounds like a good idea rather than starting from scratch.

With all this response I decided last night to take a pair of huge pipe pliers and a hammer to a spare piece (pipe & ball valve) that I had cemented together with the ABS glue. It did not give way easily, the pipe was pretty much mangled before the glue let go. That being said though when it did fail the piece came out of the joint like the glue didn't exist. The inside of the ball value looks like new, it seems the only place the glue attached to was on the very end of the pipe. It kind of reminds me of the behaviour of some glues on metal or glass, once you unseat it a little it just completely releases.

In the end I could easily see the glue releasing if it was expanding and contracting a lot but as mentioned in the posts I'm not sure if that would even occur if you're running a constant temperature through the pipes. As suggested I'm thinking for the drains I’m just going to leave them the way it is. The return I may redo as it runs along the outside of the tank but I will put that off till I have to move the tank again once the floors have been replaced.

Maybe the Rona or Home Depot guys will give me deal, they pretty much know me by name now... :biggrin:

With all due respect to what others have said about leaving it as is, at the end of the day it's your floors that are at stake, not theirs.

wrong glue
 

I personally would not be too concerned. As someone else has said the operating pressure is very low. I have a setup with a mag 12 return on 3/4 inch pipe. I wrap the pipe ends with teflon tape and press them together. I don't use glue in case I want to make changes. I have used this type of plumbing on my pond outside for years with no problems. My tank has been up and running for almost a year. My setup is in the basement and there is a floor drain under the tank. I would use glue if I was in rental or condo unit and did not have the drain in the floor. Clarence

I'll tell you two things.
1) There is very little chance you will have a problem with the joints. It takes years and years before the bonds will break and more than likely you will have moved on to another tank or different plumbing.
2) I would still redo the plumbing just for peace of mind. As long as your tank is set up you will always have the fear that the plumbing is going to fail. The time and money spent to redo the plumbing is well worth that peace of mind.

I'd redo. Always have it hanging over you when/if it's going to leak plus if you're married, explaining to the other half, ya I knew it was wrong but thought it would be okay, not worth it.