Customer protection from unethical coral vendors??
 

I along with most likely numerous others have been burnt by a certain unscrupulous coral vendor that has failed to ship goods, does not communicate about business deals, lies and cheats us out of hard earned money. Is there any way that we can protect ourselves from people like this?? I have a fairly substantial sum of goods owed me from some DOAS and unshipped goods and I though everything was going to be settled only to be experiencing the same old games again. Games like not responding to e-mails, statements of intent to ship with no shipment or response as to why, and no calls back and constantly full voicemail boxes. I have even heard complaints about this vendor on other forums. If anybody has any information as to what people/channels need to be opened to recoup lost funds from this vendor please share it. Also, some ideas about how we as consumers can protect ourselves from having to deal with things like this in the future would be nice. One just doesn't expect to have service and treatment like that when a vendor has a website and his banner on a country-wide forum. Anyway, information and thoughts are appreciated.

If the money is substanial then small claims court would be the best bet. Other than that there is not much else you can do. Report to Better Business Bureau? There is really not much you can do to get your money back besides court, but you can help to prevent others from enduring the same treatment as yourself by informing them. Personally, when dealing with a new-to-me vendor I always look very closely at vendor ratings (including an internet search), and I am careful to only spend an amount of money I am comfortable losing. Once I have gained a relationship with a new vendor I will spend more.

A little bit of reasearch on this site alone would have told you that people have been having nothing but troubles with him all along. With so many good vendors here why would you even have taken a chance?

I honestly didn't realize he was on here and that there were complaints otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. I ordered again just to make it worthwhile while trying to get stuff that was missed. He seemed pretty nice at first then the BS started to happen. I just think it's sad that there are so many crooked people that you have to cover your a_ _ on a hobby as well.

As I've advised others who've dealt with this vendor, if you've paid via credit card or CC linked to a paypal account, and you've documented how the vendor did not come through either with product or through neglectful shipping procedures, then start a claim through the CC company - paypal is awfully slow and they'll take a portion anyways.

Other than that, options are that you could file a claim in court, but unless you've invested thousands, it's probably not really worth your time. You could try calling the police as apparently someone has already done on the past on this vendor - no idea how that turned out though.

So how many of us across Canada have had issues with this particular vendor??

If you paid via credit card like others said you can dispute the charges, best course of action for you.

If you paid cash or cash like payment (check, money order, debit) then your at the mercy of the retailer unless you take them to court, but the amount needs to be worth the effort.

I paid with VISA and not through paypal. There is still a way to make a claim of sorts?
Forgive me, I am a little naive when it comes to what my VISA can do for me other than buy me things when i don't have the cash and charge me interest.

Well buyer beware is how I see it. It's unfortunate when these things happen but they do happen and you shouldn't buy online without proper research and security. There has been plenty information on almost all forums that advised against doing business with this vendor but I guess some just can't pass up on $10 frags, you get what you pay for and ignorance doesn't get you anywhere. If you received a shipment paypal won't help you, not sure about VISA either.

Sorry if it's a little harsh but a lot of people are complaining about this lately and I just laugh when I see the complaint thread and group order thread on the top of the active thread list :lol:

The damage is done, move on and take the lesson with you.

yup. Couldn't have said it better myself. Even mice will only get stung once before realizing something isnt right

Thanks for your input. I guess i just thought that because i prescribe to honesty and integrity that most others do too. I looked at that site for a long time before placing an order. I also don't go on Canreef very often lately as I am busy with work and other responsibilities, therefore I was not aware of the lengthy list of complaints against this vendor. I did not originally purchase 10 dollar frags and am a bit annoyed that you would assume this is the only thing that enticed me order. I originally bought some wysiwyg colonies. I am not looking for your sympathy so you can keep your bloody cynicism to yourself. Why wouldn't Canreef axe him from the forum earlier if he was such a problem. I am not looking to blame anyone, it is just a thought.

Yes well we all don't live in a city that has a wonderful LFS to buy from.And we all don't have a big sack of cash...just try and bare with the people that might have had to save up,even if it was 10 dollar frags.I learned,never ever going that route again,there's other great online stores,to buy from.

Here are my thoughts, which may or may not reflect the opinion of Canreef.
People bitched for years to have us provide some sort of vendor feedback. We finally did. This vendor got far too many "very unsatisfied" ratings, and anyone wishing to make a purchase should have checked. At very least, ask for PMs on experiences.
Canreef does not and cannot regulate business practices of vendors, we only sell advertising space, with the assumption that the purchaser of this space will conduct business in an honest and fair manner.
Once Canreef became aware of complaints, we checked the ratings page. Almost half were satisified, and people continued to organize group orders.
Really, we have to give the benefit of doubt until such time all doubt is removed.
So yes, if you kept ordering after all the warnings and ratings, well, that was just dumb. A deal isnt a deal if you don't receive your goods, which was the common outcome of most reported dealings.
To the original poster...just because a seller has a website and pays some advertising does not in any way mean they are a reputable vendor. I can put together a site in 20 minutes and get it advertised somewhere, it means nothing. Before anyone sends any money over the Internet for anything, they need to be sure of what they're buying and from whom.
There was enough negative feedback on this guy to set off warning bells, if you didn't listen, or investigate properly, this is the type of outcome to be expected.
As for recourse, unless your Visa will reverse the charges, you're probably hooped. Sueing someone in a different province for a likely smallish amount is likely not to worth the hassle.
I can only hope that people will no longer be trying to organize these group buys.

Wow. Blame the victim much? While I can see where you're coming from it simply doesn't excuse the apparently appalling business practices of this vendor.

I wonder though about the ratings forums, and whether or not they should be reviewed annually. I think some of the positive ratings in this case were early on. I doubt there would be many positive ratings at this stage.

:question:

Deb, you're probably right, but we aren't sure how to review. If we reset the polls, we lose all info, which has some historical benefit. We'll give it some thought though..

Vendor rating have to be accumulative over time. Yes a vendor can go down hill fast or suddenly improve. Over all performance is the only true rating for a vendor. If we where to delete the reviews and start fresh than it would be possible for a review from a person with unrealistic expectations to scew the entire rateings. the more people that rate a vendor the more accurate the rating will be

J

I share your experience. I am one of those people who got screwed.

Paypal will not do anything for you except be a front line moderator until you try to escalate. Once you do that, a message will come up stating the following

This came from my own Paypal.

I have now contacted the Better Business Bureau to see what they will do.

If that doesn't work, then I will be following through with a lawsuit.
As such, I will be offering for anyone who has issues with Burc that are not resolved to be respresented in that lawsuit if they wish.

I think that would be the only final way for any of us to get any satisfaction from Burc.

Who is this vendor so others can avoid the problem?

The vendor is FRAG-A-LOT.ca

errr, you mean fragalot.ca?

I can't find a site called frag-a-lot.ca and I don't see that the domain name was ever even registered... but I don't want to point the finger in the wrong direction...

sorry yes fragalot.ca... When I first saw his business name I always saw it hyphenated and for some reason it stuck. LOL.

all i can say is i never did business with this ex-vendor. after seeing the same story over and over its really sad to see people buying into his $10

personally if i were you guys i would take the dall, let him win because without this site and a horriable rep i don't see him doing business anytime soon

I just want to clarify that:

1. Yes, I AM TO BLAME FOR MY LOSSES as I did not check into this vendor thoroughly.
2. I was not aware that Canreef had extensive complaints documented in the forum from many others.
3. IT WAS NOT BLOODY $10 FRAGS THAT MADE ME ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. From now on I will know to check the here before I go drop cash on corals
5. I am just trying to make it clear that research and caution are our only protection as consumers from some unscrupulous people's actions as no one came up with any other methods thus far.
6. I REALIZE THAT IT IS BUYER BEWARE!!!!!
7. I do not need anybody's I TOLD YOU SOs!!!

Buyer Beware.
 

It al comes back to buyer beware, not all vendors are bad, not all mail order is bad either.

The thing you have to understand is that online purchases with any company can go bad quite easily. There are many good online vendors on this site, but you have to be extra careful when you purchase live goods. Too many factors come into play when shipping anythin alive.

Unfortunately not everyone has a LFS that they can go to within a few minutes.

Just my 2c.

Ken - BWA

Not paying via pay pal is good. Visa in general has good consumer protection as do Mastercard and Amex. Paypal not so much.

If the merchant did not deliver the product/service as described you might be entitled to a reversal of the charge.

Call the bank that issued the card, tell them you want to dispute the charge (have the bill ready as it makes this process easier.) and they will generally ask why, etc.

Unless the merchant can prove he/she delivered the product/service as agreed to, you should receive a reversal of the charge.

There are time limits on disputes, so dont waste time by thinking it over, call the bank as soon as you can.

I had to dispute a charge last summer due to a merchant not delivering product as promised, took 6 weeks, but RBC reversed the charge.

wow you need to relax a bit......
remember, you came on here looking for opinions.

I don't understand why everyone who got burned doesn't get together and start a class action lawsuit???

I have to say, some of my nicest frags came from ordering online from another province. The experience was absolutely perfect. But, my order was from a vendor that participates in the forums, has great vendor feedback and communicated extensively throughout the ordering process.
I don't need a LFS around the corner.

There is another Canadian forum (although a real crappy one) where this vendor is actively advertizing, as well as setting up personal meetings in the GTA area for frag sales.

Seems to have no issue in returning questions either in the open forum or via PM to meet people to accept money and stating he has updated his $10 page.


http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/sh...194#post317194

Please delete my post if this violates the forum rules.

If money is that hard to come by then shouldn't one be more careful with it? In my mind ordering livestock online contains obvious risk. In addition this hobby in general is a huge luxury and far from any life requirement. If money is tight all the more reason to smarten up, coral is not a good investment no matter how you look at it.

Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

About a year back I ordered from this vendor, it didn't work out the greatest so I simply didn't order from him again. In the end I got something shipped to me, it wasn't exactly what I ordered and most was DOA but that's the risk you take ordering livestock online from a guy with a fish tank and a website.

I should also note my first post was not targeted at the original poster, just a general observation and response as lots of people seem to be complaining about the vendor in question.

I think the vendor in question has pretty much lost all of Western Canada for sales and I can't think of any other type of penalty that hurts the cashflow into a business. Be aware that there are other vendors that have been just as bad. My cash just go to them anymore.

Like sphelps says:

" Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me."....Scotty Star Trek

First off, I would agree that you have to be careful when ordering anything online. However, having said that, I would still expect a certain level of professionalism from any "business". Not everyone can afford $30, $50 or $80 frags, just like not everyone can afford a $200 DVD player. That's why Walmart sells $50 DVD players. Sure, you get what you pay for, but even though a $50 DVD player will not compare to a $200 DVD player it still gets the job done. It should not be dead as soon as I get it home. More importantly though, if I have any problems with my $50 DVD player (within the warranty period), Walmart (or the manufacturer) will stand behind its policies and help me out (at least this has been my experience). They will not ignore my calls or try to give me a replacement that is similar but not the same as what I originally asked for (unless I specifically asked for something different).

In principle this is what I would expect as a minimum level of service from any "business" that takes consumer money. I realize that we don't live in this perfect world but I can dream :-)