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light required by diferent corals
Hi, ok this might be a way out question but I was wondering if there was any listing of various corals and the amount of light they need as a minimum measured in µmol m^-2 s^-1.
or even the lighting at various depth in the ocean would be good also. Steve |
light required by diferent corals
I am sure you can find that info on fishnet Steve.
I think Richard Harker or Dana Riddle has listed the light at various depths on that board. If not it will be in aquarium frontiers. HTH |
light required by diferent corals
Steve, Eric Borneman wrote an article in this month's Reefcentral Online mag....it describes the locales that corals are collected from. Any given species of coral can originate in drastically different conditions. So you can say a species of say, acro, needs a quantitative amount of light. It depends on where they came from, the amount of consumed food available, etc. I'm sure there is a minimum required to sustain life based on photosynthetic nutrition only, but I would suspect that there is no table describing these values.
so yes, your question is way out there :D |
light required by diferent corals
hmm never heard of fishnet.. is it a BB?
Steve |
light required by diferent corals
Fishnet is on compuserve. You'll find some of the bigger names in the hobby posting there.
Just to clarify. what you will find is the light penetration at various depths. AS well they do list the latitude as you will get different readings at differnet latitudes. I do think for the most part they will list it as summer peak. |
light required by diferent corals
http://members.shaw.ca/montipora/pictures/loss.gif
[ 03 April 2002, 16:11: Message edited by: DJ88 ] |
light required by diferent corals
ok I must be doing something wrong I can't find this fishnet.. I keep getting stockings or webhosting places.. not that I mind fishnet stockings mind you :D
Steve |
light required by diferent corals
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light required by diferent corals
>You'll find some of the bigger names in the hobby posting there.<
Why thank you Darren. ;) |
light required by diferent corals
Hi,
Its probably better to get a book and look up the lighting requirements in there. I have tried searching for this stuff on the web, but it's all in the books. The really expensive books... In general, 100 to 150 uMol/(M^2*s) is representative of 40 M depths in the ocean -- this is the bare minimum for reef tanks. LPS and softies reside in this area. 2.5x that (or 250 to 500 uMol/(M^2*s)) for SPS rich areas -- which is around 10M to 15M. - Victor. [ 03 April 2002, 20:31: Message edited by: reefburnaby ] |
light required by diferent corals
do you know which book might have it in it Victor? I am getting the bornman(*sp) one "corals". I bought the julian sprung (as it was highly recomended) and it has a scale out of 1 to 10 for how much light a coral needs but it doesent define the equivalent of the scall anywhare so all I can tell from it is one coral needs more light from another.
Steve |
light required by diferent corals
Troy,
:D lol Steve, The books Victor is referring to aren't the usual ones you will find at J&L me thinks. Mail order. and mucho dinero. ie $150 or more. |
light required by diferent corals
Darren,
ya thats what I figured.. thats why I was asking for a name so I could look into it.. I don't have a problem paying that much if it tells me what i want to know.. Brad, I read that and have a question from it.. if, lets say a SPS was taken from 30 Meters ( I was reading that the find some this deep) so now this comes to the store whare it is put under MH lights ad a distance of 1 foot, maby it is thee for a couple days and now you buy it and put it in your tank 2" below the surface because a SPS should have as much light as it can get.. is this coral going to die or will it adapt to the light? and if it adapts is it possable to adapt it backwards to lower light? I know the coloration won't be as good I have read a few articles on how much light and time it takes to colour up the tips on acro's but would it grow and live good? Steve |
light required by diferent corals
Steve, not many, if any, corals are taken from 30m down. If you did get one from that depth and put it under intense lighting without acclimatization it would probably bleach and die.
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light required by diferent corals
Steve, I don't think the phrase "SPS should have as much light as it can get.." is entirely accurate. Many SPS aren't huge light hogs. In fact, too much light too quickly will almost certainly damage and/or kill a coral quickly. Excess photosynthesis can cause the buildup of O2 within the tissue and burn(oxidize) the coral from the inside out. I noticed in my tank that even suddenly moving a coral 6 inches closer to the light caused some short term stress. My E. ancora is spewing zooxanthallae due to higher exposure. This is just by moving it directly under the light (on the sand) compared to partial shading it had previously. It will be fine, but if I had moved it to the top of the tank, it surely would be bleached by now.
I think since equipment required to measure umols of light is not standard reef equipment, it is mute to publish these numbers. They mean nothing to 99.5% of hobbyists, I'm sure. Basically, you obtain a coral two ways: from other hobbyists in which case you have an idea of the lighting environment, or you obtain a wild collected specimen; you then use standard guidelines (1-10 scale) for lighting requirements and watch closely for an adverse reaction. When it seems to be doing fine, you can try slowly moving it higher in the tank if that's where you want it. Basically, by knowing that a coral likes 30,000 umol/km * 5^2 litres inversely proportional to Friday night television programming means absolutely squat to me and therefore who cares. My corals like a lot of light or they don't. Part of being successful with this is learning to tell which from what. P.S. See you at lunch! [img]tongue.gif[/img] |
light required by diferent corals
Hi,
So...corals adapt. I have notice that some of my corals just sit there and don't grow for 6 months to a year when I acquire them from the LFS. I figure that they are adapting to my tank. Once they adapt...they grow like a weed. In general, our lighting systems have difficulty meeting the lower requirements for 100 to 150 uMol/(m^2*s)....let alone 500 uMol(m^2*s). In general, 0.01 to 0.02 uMol/(m^2 * s) per lux of light (depends on the light spectrum). IMHO, this measure is much better than the standard watts per gallon. Also, you'll notice that certain corals grow in certain areas of the reefs. Based on the depth at which they are usually collected, you can get a rough estimate on the lighting and circulation requirements. - Victor. [ 04 April 2002, 10:57: Message edited by: reefburnaby ] |
light required by diferent corals
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To start tho you won't find many, if any, SPS at depths of 30m. not enough light. that is softie and LPS areas of a reef. I'll get the info from one of my books when I get home after school. I have some general numbers in a book I have at home. Ok, now if you were to take something that was in a tank at one to three feet in depth from a LFS and then move it to a depth of 2" you are going to increase the amount of light that is able to penetrate the water from 10% at three feet, to ~40% at one foot then to ~80% at two inches you are doing huge changes in the amount of light the coral will be hit with. A good comparison is taking you from your house where you had regular incandescent lights and then for 6 months then threw you onto the beach in the middle of summer with just a pair of swim trunks and no sun screen. How will your skin react? Toast. You can recover from it. The coral most likely won't. Anytime you add a new coral unless you know with 100% certainty that this specific coral came form the identical or higher lighting conditions in the previous tank you should always acclimate the coral. Start it low and then work it up. Reverse acclimation. are you hinting that you want to keep SPS in your tank? I thought you weren't going MH? If you aren't, all I can say is Don't do it. They can survive under VHO but need to be high in the water column. Even then most won't stay colored. They will go brown. Some will likely will recede and die. I have seen what happens to SPS under NO lighting. It doesn't work. unless you put it directly below the waters surface. NO(even overdriven) doesn't have the intensity to feed a light requiring coral. They aren't getting the light energy they require to keep up with growth needs and replacing lost zoxanthellae. If something happens(injury or attacked by another organism) they will not have the energy to combat and survive this incident. Even if you feed. Save yourself the headache. and the coral. If you want SPS. Get MH. Go for the highest intensity you can get. ie 250W Iwasaki. They have the cheapest bulbs and are heads and tails above anything else for PAR. Until you have the knowledge and experience under your belt start small. Go for the softies and easy LPS. As the tank matures(ie a year) and you have the care of those accomplished and you aren't having any losses due to tank conditions and learning something foreign to you, then move up to the more difficult corals. M. Digitata or something like that. If you jump right in and try keeping the more difficult corals(most SPS) all the while you are learning how your tank is going to react to different conditions you are going to do one thing. kill a lot of coral. It is good you want to learn. But the big part of that learning is hands on not reading on the net. Because you can read from the books and online and spit out that info is not the same as actually doing it. Save yourself the headaches in the long run. start small. Start easy. Run the tank with just a fish or two for a few months after it finishes cycling, then add one very easy coral. ie GSP. If things go well with your tanks parameters then slowly add one more at a time. My sister followed this philosphy and she has what I concider a very successful, low light reef tank. I am repeating myself, I know. but you are sending out signals that you want to try things that only the most experienced hobbyists do. Even then they only do some for it for testing purposes. Don't put the corals at risk. Either set up the tank for SPS and have the light they need or don't do it at all. Messing around with lower then required needs for light will only kill off coral that could have survived in a properly set up system. I waited over a year before I even tried easy SPS. And then I went right to what I was told will work for survival of those species. I have the impression you are trying to bite off more than you can chew. Small steps. Have a plan for the future. But don’t jump too far ahead. You’ll save yourself the headaches and save a few corals. Book knowledge is one thing, experience is another. Getting the experience takes time. Do just that. Take your time. Make a decision regarding what you want in your tank, from that find out what you as a novice will require to give those species a chance to live and set that system up. Then stick to that decision. You are at the point right now you have to make that decision. If you want SPS, put the MH in now. If not. Don't. simple as that. You are bouncing all around about what you want for lighting. Sh!t or get off the pot. buy the MH or don't keep SPS until you add the light they need. It is as easy as that.. Sorry to be so blunt but it needs to be said. |
light required by diferent corals
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this is why I am curious to the PAR lighting requirments of various corals. maby by using different combanations/types of lights it is possable to recreat the basic requirments of the corals. who knows maby I am grabbing at straws but I think it is something worth looking into now that I have the equipment to get started. Steve |
light required by diferent corals
Darren, Steve *has* decided to go MH. Although he seems overzealeous at times, I know he won't do anything to intentionally harm his charges. And if he doesn't put water in his tank soon, I'm going to sneak into his house and do it for him!!!
*Steve, if this becomes neccesary, make sure you have coffee on at all times :D |
light required by diferent corals
Ok,
well then I am getting really confused.. lol Last time it was he had decided not to go with MH and get loads of LR.. |
light required by diferent corals
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I do not mind constructive critisim but what you give is in now way constructive. I just don't understand why you feel you have to poisen a thread with your attatude like this.. it wasn't about my tank or what I am going to do it was about me trying to find out what kinda of requirments different corals have in nature .. just out of curosity, but you start calling me a coral killer and that my plans are how did you put it "Sh!t or get off the pot". Maby I don't feel I need to go out and buy the lights tomorrow when the ones I have will work fine for while my tank is maturing enuf for SPS like you said "(ie a year)". so should I run out and buy thease lights that might or might not be the best ones to buy so they can sit unused for a year.. I thinknot.. I could spent the money on rock and buy 135lbs instead of 45 or 90. also that give me a year (probably more like 6 to 8 months) to do some more looking into different MH and HQI lights sence no one seam to know enuf about HQI at this point in time. I seriously doubt that you will find anyone more paitent than my self when it comes to doing a fish tank and letting it mature. this comes from 27 years of keeping fish (didn't have any for 5 of them years) so actualy only 22 years of having 1 or more tanks set up.. both fresh and salt. hmmm, Brad I would have to have a skimmer befor I can put water in my tank :D :D .. I know , I know.. another week. ;) Steve |
light required by diferent corals
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light required by diferent corals
brad
hmm, wonder what it would take to entice you to build TWO??? shane aka "my skimmer sucks the hind tit" man |
light required by diferent corals
Shane, I'll give you a call. I can build you a skimmer that you'll love!
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light required by diferent corals
Hi,
HQI vs Regular. I would get 250W HQIs... 150W HQIs aren't that much more cheaper. Its expensive...but the colour is unbelievable. This is important if you want to keep non-brown, green or orange SPS. Colours like blue and purple do better in HQIs than Iwasaki. As for how much light does SPS need....there are a couple of papers on reefs.org that explain this in greater detail. PAR doesn't give you all the info if you really want to optimize your lighting for corals. This is because some corals prefer different wavelengths -- PAR doesn't take this in to account. Also, corals can adapt to the availble light energy...which makes your job even tougher. - Victor. |
light required by diferent corals
I would think that the coral selection you keep would give you some type of guidline for the appropiate light required. Many corals found in aquarium stores were removed from various levels of reef walls, in which the coral itself selected for its best rate of survival on that reef. The hardist problem with reef keeping is is ballancing out a lighting scheme that will suit many types of coral varieties from different geographical areas. SPS, LPS and Leather corals all require different light schemes and water parimeters so the best way to guarintee your reef tank survival is to try and keep corals from one geographical area and only keep those corals fround in that area in your tank. The problem comes from trying to keep many varieties from different countries under one roof. You'l find thousands of articles all over the internet from many proffesional reef keepers on lighting with the there own views of what works for them and there tanks but take it with a grain of salt and judge what works for your own tank. Read Read Read and read.
Happy reef keeping [img]tongue.gif[/img] |
light required by diferent corals
Great advice, SeaHunter,
but where do you go from there? Much of the published data available is old. Most people (myself included) are not aware of where,exactly, their corals actually came from, and what the light requirements that they came from were. Deep water corals, Trachyphyllia, for example, have somewhat blue light spectrum light requirements, and yet people seem to insist on putting them under very bright, white, lighting. Mitch |
light required by diferent corals
Hi
Finding what light and what intensity has always been a problem in reef keeping, as you mentioned how does one know were there corals came from?, well I would think that if your local reef store had a Fiji shipment you would try and read up on the geographical reef types found of the coast of the Fiji islands. This type of information would probably be found in Oceanography /ecology books at your local libray. I find it fustrating that writers don't give much information on parimeters of reef regions when there talking about corals from a specific region, they mainly write about there own reef tanks. Fiji is a big place with deep and shallow reefs but to try and pin point were your species came from on either type of reef is almost imposable unless a study has been done and reports written. Cheers |
light required by diferent corals
In the last issue of Advance Reef Keeper online magazine, Eric Borneman gave us some clues on collection locations of some of our corals.
BTW, based on the article, I am very concerned about large quantity of elegance being collected. George |
light required by diferent corals
Hi George
Yes! Elegance corals removed from any reef in large quantities will and does have a detramental effect on its future populations. Trying to manage collectors in foreign countries that have no environmental regulations or enforment agencies is a big problem. I'm still wondering why after 12 years of repeatedly telling collectors that Gonipora is not a sutable specimens for reef tanks because they just eventually die off, that they are still being shipped. and now we see them coming in a variety of dyed speciemens which is absalutely idiotic. Cheers |
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