Whaling
 

Honestly, why do people still need to kill whales? What do they use them for, and how much are they worth? I am watching The Sea Shepard, and the whaling industry hired an old military ship to spy on the Sea Shepard, so the whaling boats could be one step ahead.

I really do not understand why they do this. Can anyone enlighten me, it is really awful.

I'm with you on commercial Whaling being awful, especially in protected waters under the ole 'research' guise.

However, chasing whaling ships and throwing stink bombs & dyes at them is probably not the answer.

To tackle it properly you'll probably need to re-educate the taste buds, cultures & traditions of a nation's whole culinary history. On top of that, you'd have to tackle the financial implications of ending an entire industry.

To many, the livelihoods & traditions of humans mean more than the suffering of Whales.

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I had muktuk (whale blubber) once while living in the Arctic and it was NOT delicious but this is what google found for me...

The Japan Whaling Association pleads its case: (reasons to eat whale)

"Whales consume as much as six times the volume of fish that humans catch. Whales are eating a disproportionate amount of our marine resources. Because whales are currently protected and may not be harvested, their numbers are increasing, and they are eating larger and larger amounts of fish, leaving many fewer fish for fishermen to take. This is an important reason for the decline of many fisheries resources around the world."

and other such beauties as...

"whales are basically stupid, bovine creatures, and whaling is a vital component in Japan’s efforts to achieve agricultural self-sufficiency."

It's a cultural thing I suppose, I mean, don't we eat cows which other religions worship? (I use the term "we" loosely - The only meat I've eaten for the past 14 years is fish) Not that I agree with it....who could eat this?

http://bp2.blogger.com/_90AksVFbJPE/...aleburgers.jpg

This whole whaling thing is so sad. Families are ruthlessly murdered, and I wonder what they are thinking.

I have no idea how the Japanese were allowed to kill whales for science... how did they get away with that? Perhaps our population is far too high and that is why the fish are not as plentiful. So basically they kill the whales and what do they do with the bodies. Is there a use for them now? I recall back in the old days they used whale oils for perfumes and cosmetics as well as fuel. Now we don't need to do that, so is their horrible death a complete waste? Either way, it does not have to happen, and I get sick watching them get killed in the manner that they die.

So Keri, what did you do in the Antarctic? I guess that is why you live in beautiful British Columbia now. With our dismal weather, you would think I live way out north as well.

I am glad these people against whaling do what they do. I am sure they would do much more if they could. I have watched Shark Water, and saw how laws protect people from facing consequences in illegally killing both whales and sharks. I think having reality shows about this matters is good thing as well. Who knew people would still be killing whales.

I don't want to start a political issue, but I just wanted to vent and understand why this is still common practice. It makes me sad that in our society today, with the knowledge and technology we have now, things like this still happen.

the way I look at it is. We are all in this together, and if enough people REALY cared there would be more Sea sheppard's out there. A lot of what humans do is just BS.
eg. why is there seal bashing up north? because fishermen have said that the seals eat to much fish and the population is growing.
the human population is growing every second. and we consume more then the earth can replace.... so basically what the whalers and seal clubbers are doing is eliminating the competition.

This is a link to the Sea Shepard site... It takes about how Paul Watson started out with Green peace, and how he almost was suffocated by seal hunters. He handcuffed himself to a pile of seal pelts, and they dragged him across the deck of the ship kicking him all the way.

This man has always been a voice for animals even when he was a child. Links to his pages can be found at this main site...

http://www.seashepherd.org/

I wonder why so many people seem to care so much for seals and whales yet I do not see much of this at chicken plants or pig slaughter houses. Mr. Watson is not significantly different that PETA, it is a business more than a cause!

The whaling industry has changed greatly over the years, initially whaling was to get the oils that the whale had in its blubber. virtually all these oils can be created with synthetics now. As for the differences between PETA and The Sea Shepard society, yes they are both business's..both have had their share of doubters and supporters, however IMO while I believe no animal should suffer, I am not going to get bent out of shape about chickens or pigs as they are "raised" as food animals. Whale and seals aren't raised or farmed they are "culled" and like the fishing industry they are virtually driven to extinction. If chickens or pigs were endangered it might be a different story. Now I dont want to get any chicken or pig lovers against me here so don't spew facts about how chickens and different farm animals are kept or slaughtered. I don't agree with all the methods but I don't agree with a lot of PETA's idea's as well. I do agree that people get a lot more involved when the animals are "cute and cuddly" and are less supportive if they are not a cute animal. say like the slaughter of sharks so to speak, not many people are concerned about the shark harvesting that exists today.....Safe to say is that for the time being there are always going to be different views and the beauty of this is we have the ability to voice our opinions for the most part without censorship and retaliation.

Because there is a huge difference between breeding for slaughter and needlessly slaughtering whales which do not reproduce nearly as fast. I am so sick of that argument. It's not the same thing.

Sorry that this is un related but I found this relativly funny (sad but funny)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM7EV4iF3Iw

I know slaughter of farm animals is not pretty... however they have the means of dispatching the animal quickly most times.

I have seen footage of whale hunts, and it is bloody... I have never seen a clean kill, and all the other whales are trying to help the one in need... only to be killed themselves. They struggle and flail as they are being dragged onto the boat and cut apart alive.

I completely agree with dsaundry's comments. I posted and asked why this still happens, and never did ask what people thought of farm animals being started:sad:

At least with cattle and many animals their hides are made into leather and suede, and the entire body does not go to waste. They pretty much use it all up for one thing or another. What happens to a deal whale?

I don't see a problem with it only if it is controlled and regulated by law. Yes it does look bloody and horrible but face the facts everyone we eat animals cow chicken fish... or in this discussion whales. Remember this is my opinion please don't get angry.

Do we need to eat endangered animals/mammals? IMO it would be hard to eat something that you know is endangered.

I dont think we should be able to regulate the japanese out of their culture, i believe that if they consume the entire animal and use the leftovers to make animal feed etc. then its not a problem as we are using them in the lifecycle like any other animal would.
The whales that are harvested are not the ones that are concidered endangerd, its not grey whales or orcas they are the more plentiful types of whales.

Any videos you see made by peta or sea sheperd or other environmental group only show the worst suffereing they have ever found, they wont show you when the whale dies on the first shot and is processsed long dead.
If we allowed a open fishery on whales then we could set up regulations on the handeling of the target species and proper quotas based on scientific research and have observers onboard the ship to make sure everything is done right. by banning it we would just force it underground and pirate groups would then fill the void for the demand of the goods. Just like everything else that is banned in the world,, you can still get it just not legaly.

Probably the best example of Peta's crap is the use of the white coat baby seals in their advertising campaigns for the banning of the seal hunt. Everyone knows that white coats have not been killed for about 30 years. But hey don't let facts get in the way of a good (fundraising) campaign.

Top ten facts whalers don't want you to know
1. Some 25,000 whales have been killed since the ban on commercial whaling began.

2. Whales are usually killed with an explosive harpoon that detonates inside the whale's body. If the first harpoon fails to kill the whale, then a second penthrite harpoon or a rifle is used.

3. Some whales take over an hour to die.

4. Today, the meat and blubber of sperm whales caught by the Japanese, under the guise of research whaling, is too polluted to be sold on the Japanese consumer market.

5. By the time the International Whaling Commission banned commercial whaling in 1986, some whale species had been reduced by more than 95%.

6. There is currently no limit on the number of weapons or bullets that can be used to kill a whale and no upper limit on the acceptable time to death.

7. Japan reported that nearly 60% of whales did not die rapidly or ‘instantaneously' in its hunts in 2002/2003. Norway reported about 20% failed to die ‘instantaneously' in its hunts for the same period.

8. There are only two IWC established sanctuaries in the world. Every year, Japan kills whales in the Southern Ocean Sanctuary, in waters that are supposed to be ‘whaling-free'.

9. The meat from whaling operations, whether commercial or scientific, is used for human consumption. The killing methods fall well short of the standards necessary to achieve humane slaughter in livestock animals.

Thats not from Peta or The Sea Shepard society....Let the debate rage on.

Just to further stir the pot.
Facts about Whales

Many of the larger whale species were badly depleted in numbers before the moratorium on commercial whaling was introduced in 1986. Many have shown significant recovery since then but others like the Northern Right Whale remain critically endangered. The Japanese have continued killing whales under the loophole of "scientific" whaling in the last 20 years but have directed their attentions largely towards the more locally abundant Minke Whale. Although much of what we know about whales and dolphins has been derived from animals killed by whalers many people believe that important facts about whales should be gathered through non-lethal behavioural and environmental studies. Many of the facts about whales have been gathered from the interaction between man and captive animals.
Commercial Whaling

Anti-whaling nations and conservation groups are currently very concerned that the Japanese are to widen their species profile to include Humpbacks and Fin Whales in their "scientific" whaling programme. They have also stated they intend to double their minke whale kill to just under 1000 animals per annum. The International community consider this activity a yet further flagrant breach of the moratorium imposed by the International Whaling Commission and to be commercial whaling by another name. The whaling nations of the world including Norway, Iceland and Japan are working hard for a resumption of commercial whaling which, if passed, would likely deplete the number of cetacean species. It is likely there would be a free-for-all of whale killing where quotas were flouted, as happened during the previous era of commercial whaling and where so many species were reduced to perilously low levels. It is a sad reflection on the state of the human psyche that during a time of unprecedented environmental depletion nations would even consider the killing of a protected species of marine mammal in International waters - Japan, Norway and Iceland continue this practice for commercial gain. Even if the harvesting of endangered species for commercial gain were acceptable in the 21st century the morality of the methods by which whales are killed are indefensible. Some whales take up to 30 minutes to die while attempts are variously made to dispatch the animal by electric shock or high-powered rifle. This is unacceptable by any civilized nations standards.
In October 2006 Iceland announced it's intention to start commercial whaling again. They have started killing Fin Whales as part of their self allocated commercial quota in addition to Minke Whales. Fin Whales are currently listed on CITES and the IUCN red list as endangered and threatened. This action has set back the work of marine conservationists 20 years and following a decade of unprecedented marine degradation this action sends out completely the wrong message to our children with regard the need to protect and conserve vulnerable marine species and their environment for future generations. There is absolutely no scientific or commercial justification for killing whales, especially endangered species like the Fin Whale. There is little or no domestic market in Iceland for whale meat and exporting endangered Fin Whale meat would contravene CITES. Iceland’s decision to restart commercial whaling is senseless, irresponsible national posturing that will serve nobody’s interest, deplete the stock of an already endangered species and will do lasting damage to Iceland’s increasingly tarnished image on the world stage.

Thanks for the info... I wish I knew how the Japanese slipped under the radar with the "research" guise... I read they say it is to research their migrations and diets... I see scientists putting GPS on whales and sharks to learn migrations and breeding habits. Outright murder is not going to teach very much, and I think from centuries of slaughter, they would already know what whales are eating...

Well that's a whole different issue. I am not a fan of PETA at all but hopefully the seal hunt is banned in Canada soon. With the US and now Europe banning Seal products, Canada is basically going to be forced to stop soon. I was surprised Russia banned the hunt before Canada!

There is a reason Europe is banning the seal products and will not buy Canadian Salmon...

the reason is propaganda!!!

What do you mean by this exactly... please expand further on your reasoning for this statement?:smile:

Groups such as Peta spreading falsehoods. Celebrities taking up cause that they know very little about. It was so funny watching Paul MacCartney and Heather Mills last year. She actually touched a baby seal which would most likely lead to it being abandoned by Mother. They talked about the cute white coats being slaughtered which does not happen. Plenty of talk about clubbing which Canada stopped doing about 10 years ago.....

I agree with most statements about PETA... they do not want humans to have companion animals at all. They released a bunch of dogs at a dog show, which lead to missing animals and some being killed on the streets in traffic. There is a lot about PETA I abhor a great deal, but they also do get a message across at times.

I do think the Sea Shepard does great work. They patrol waters that are protected from whaling. They also spread the word that this indeed does happen. I know it is culture for the Japanese, but what do they need whales for now? These animals are almost extinct... if they are all gone, what happens to Japanese culture then? Either way it will be stopped sooner or later...

Sorry my2rotties I am not saying that I agree with the whaling, i am only stating that some of these organisations are a little suspecious with their info and sometimes their main purpose is financial instead of geniune. As an example, it was reported this week that the US HUmane Society raised $124 million dollars last year of which a grand total of $6 million was passed over to actual animal shelters.

As an example, it was reported this week that the US HUmane Society raised $124 million dollars last year of which a grand total of $6 million was passed over to actual animal shelters.[/quote]


Although this may seem like a low total being given to shelters.....what does the report say about the wages being paid to the humane society employees, or the cost of advertising and campaining for the cause?

Getting a little off topic...

$124 million raised?

$6 million actually going to the cause the money was raised for?

Nevermind about the wages or operating costs, fact is, if most people knew, less than 5 cents in every dollar donated, actually goes to the cause, they'd probably find another organisation to give their donations to.

Actually thinking about it ANY organisation that operates on a less than 5% "profit" should really reassess how it goes about it's business.

Back on topic...

I don't know enough about the whole thing but, seeming to have fun chasing whaling ships whilst committing illegal acts in front of TV cameras sound to me like a good waste of time & resources.

Like it or not. Vandalism & harassment are illegal. Whaling with appropriate research papers is not.

Better to find out how the hell these Whaling vessels are able to operate "legally" & try to stop it there instead.

How can they get permits to Whale in those waters under the research banner?

Why are international & Japanese/Norwegian governments not doing much to stop it?

Why is there still demand for whale products & foods in places like Japan?

Getting answers to these questions will help more than a few dozen stink bombs thrown aboard a whaling vessel.

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Japanese are allowed to operate legally because they whale under the guise of "research" purposes. Specifically, they are supposed to be taking stomach samples from their catches. Don't ask me where to find their results, if such a thing exists. They get the permission under this guise because it's profitable and the people in charge are uneducated. It's already been mentioned that one study found that whales eat a lot. And quite frankly, they do. That said, to say that they eat more than the world's annual catch? ehhh, sounds like bad science is afoot; and by bad, I mean the same political crap that always finds its way into some scientific studies (where funding comes from can greatly influence results). Anyways, people in charge think whales are stealing all their fish (which is already a skewed perspective in the first place), so of course they'll allow whaling to continue. people are more important after all right? right? :question:

I don't think we have any right at all to be judging japanese (or anyone else's but our own) culture. Every culture has glaring faults depending on what angle you look at it from. Not only that, you also have to realize that lots of people are against this kind of crap over there as well. Stereotypes are easy to make, so we should tread lightly around that subject.

for the record, I fully support the work vessels like the Sea Shepard and Green peace does. It's not my style and i would never participate, but there will always be a necessity for the die hard direct confrontation type activists. It's important because it's public (though controversial) and it gets the message through a lot faster than a scientific paper. As for PETA... well let me just say "sea kittens" with a raised eyebrow. 'nuff said.

For the record...

1 - I never judged anybody's culture.

2 - I already know that some Japanese Whaling fleets operate legally as research vessels.

3 - You questions you quoted from me were not actually posed by myself in order to seek answers, but a list of questions that those wanting to stop whaling may want to address before going the route of illegal activities such as harassment & vandalism.

I do pose one more question though... (& I'm not looking an answer.)

Who are these 'people in charge' you talk about?

It sounds like they're the ones Sea Shepherd & such like should be directing their energies towards.

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sorry VFX, I didn't mean to direct any of my post towards anyone in specific. I only brought up the judgement thing because of the direction the thread seemed to be drifting towards. I only used that part of your original post to build my post off of, not to answer the somewhat rhetorical questions you posed. lol, I don't believe in rhetorical questions when I have an answer :)

the people in charge i referred to was the people who ultimately make the decisions whether or not to regulate fisheries. ie. government and international regulating bodies. Sea shepard serves a very specific role imo. it hits a different sector than lobbying parties (who go after the "people in charge"). Science usually targets them as well as opposed to trying to educate the public (consumers) and fishermen (producers); albeit science goes through a lot of middle men and gets a bit... muddled by the time it gets there. it's very much like a game of telephone.

no worries Justin :mrgreen:

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then where is it from you dont list a source, and where did that source get its source,


and about peta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0exLa6saV9o

What can be done
 

The reason behind butchering these animals for food product befuddles me, its the same as Shark fin soup. IMO to hide behind the culture excuse is redundant and ignorant. Culture isn't set in stone, its something that is always changing and to say well its my culture to kill rare endangered species conflicts highly with my own values.

Killing a whale and killing a chicken are completely different acts, chickens on this planet out number humans, whales on the other hand absolutely do not. (Current whale population estimates -http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/estimate.htm). The hardest part about it is that its almost impossible to change other cultures due to culture gaps. Even if every single Canadian decided not to eat whale, when that whale enters international waters to hunt it doesn't matter because some Japanese, Swedish or other countries boat can chug along and fire high explosive harpoons at the poor things. Talk about a crummy life for such elegant and harmless animals (Besides all of those fish that they are taking away from the Japanese, because humans now "own everything on this planet")
Levi