Sump tank busted in the middle of the night.
 

Well I woke up a 4am this morning to a horrible noise, flicked on the lights and found there was NO water in my sump wooohooo :evil: . The tank cracked in the back and emptied itself out. Everything in the main tank looks ok although its a little foggy. Now I am not sure what to do. The only way that sump went in was through the top. And I *really* dont want to have to empty the main tank and take it off. I think i'll break the sump and take it out piece by piece. As to how to get another one in, well thats a whole new story. For you Calgary reefers out there it was a 33gal from Golds. Thats 2 (mine and EmilyB's) that broke from there. I wouldn't get one if i were you...I won't be able to fit a 33gal in there again unless i remove the center brace then put it back in. Anyways a good way to start off the long weekend :mad:

EDIT: oh yah the tank was only half full and it still busted.

I'm pretty sure its the same bunch of guys that build these tanks for Big Al's, and Pieces aswell. They are local.

Sorry to here about the troubles. Thats the kind of stuff I worry about all the time. Too many things can go wrong. I had a pvc elbow pop not to long ago but I happened to be standing there.

Have you thought about building the sump in the stand, or looking for a Rubbermaid or similar plastic sump to fit in there?

Mine did the same. Wonder why its always in the middle of the night. :confused: That was it for 1/4 in. glass for me. I should have know better. :eek:

I now have a 100g. Rubbermaid, built like a tank. :biggrin:

Super-rotten man. Maybe you could get the glass cut and build the tank yourself. Wouldn't be too bad, since it doesn't need to look all that great. You can make it so that it fits the stand even better than the 33 did.

Sorry to hear about the sump breaking.

As for replacement.

All you need is 8 pieces of acrylic and you can build your sump to the exact size you want and then assemble it inside your stand. That is how I did it. :)

Thanks, never really thought of building my own - I guess i am a little tentitive as i dont wan't this happening again :rolleyes: ... does anyone know of any articles online that go into detail about it? IE thickness, whit kinds of acrylic glue. techinques etc ? And to top it off I threw in a powerhead to keep the water circulating, put my hand in there a few mins later and got zapped!! luckily i have a few spares though. Just gotta make up a bit of sw now.

I had to bust my old sump to get it out. Sacrificed two panels, the rest became scrap for baffles one day or something like that.

Acrylic is probably your best bet for building a sump in-stand. (Man, I wish I had thought of that 15 months ago... Oh well.) It's actually a lot simpler than you expect it to be; so don't worry I'm sure any of us can help you get started if you wish to go that route.

What was the tank itself sitting on, the floor or was there something supporting it off the floor?

it was sitting on a 1/4 inch piece of plywood...i nailed that to the bottom of the stand to help distribute some of the pressure...

kinda interested in making myself a sump now, I have a few q's.

1. what thickness of acrylic should i go for?
2. what kind of adhesive should i use?
3. what would be the easiest way to insure 90degree angles?

Well there are far more experienced acrylic workers here than me but here's my stab at it:

1. what thickness of acrylic should i go for?

I think if I was to build a sump I'd look at 6mm (which is, I think, the same as saying 1/4"). Maybe one size up from that, depending on cost and how big I intended the volume, but I think 6mm is a good starting point..

2. what kind of adhesive should i use?

weld-on .. there are several different numbers of it, and it all depends on how runny it is. The bigger the number the more viscous. If you take something like weldon #3 (which is like really thin water), you hold the edges together, apply the weldon with a syringe and capillary action pulls the weldon into the bond. Hold the acrylic in place for a few minutes, the weldon melts the acyrlic together, and as long as you have no air bubbles in your bond the end result will be solid. Maybe a quick squirt again so that the edges are sealed. Then let it cure for a day or so and then you're done.

3. what would be the easiest way to insure 90degree angles?

Basically with good cuts and edge preparation. Stuff sands like a breeze, don't worry it's really easy to prepare the edges.


...

It's perhaps a bit easier to see it in person than to try to imagine it. But it's really not all that hard espescially once you've done it a few times.

1. 1/4"

2. Methylene Chloride and/or weld-on

3. put it together.

Seriously. If your cuts are square it will go together square as long as you are careful.

I built mine in the stand.

put bottom piece in. Attach one side with a small drop of methylene chloride on each end just to hold it. Put end in place. Hold the end to the side run meth down the joint where they meet. Make sure they are properly together. not overhanging. Attach other side in same manner a first. Bond joint of the singel end with the side just placed in. Once they are bonded place the remaining end. Once they are all fitted together nicely run methylene chloride aroudn the bottom to seal it all together. Than fit baffles in place and bond.

take a read of this thread. I give acrylic sizes etc. Easily modified for any size stand.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...p&pagenumber=2

bah...



I water tested mine within ten minutes. With methylene chloride that is. With weld-on 16 I'd wait 30 min.

Really? Cool. I just thought it was better to leave it for a while to make sure it's dry, but I guess if it's good within 10 minutes .......

Meth is ready to fly in no time at all. :D

really..

I ain't pullin your leg. ;)

I'm thinking smell enough of that stuff and you'll be ready to fly in no time as well !!! ... :lol:

thanks for the links, they explain a lot. can i get the Methylene Chloride and weld-on at HD or revy? ...approx how much $$ would this run me?

Most acrylic manufacturers recommend waiting 24 -48 hours to reach full bond strength; I'd rather be safe than wet!

You need to get yourself to an acrylic or plastics place and they'll have everything you need. Two places I'd try in Calgary are Industrial Paint and Plastics (a little bit east of Chinook Centre) and GE Polymers (not sure where they are, I think they're up in the NE). You'll have to look them up in the phone book for eaxct #'s and addresses, I'm afraid offhand I don't remember those. If you look up "plastics" in the yellow pages you should be able to find a fair number of places but those two that I mentioned are places that people here have dealt with and I haven't heard anything negative about them.

contacted Industrial Paint and Plastics and they said 1/4" acrylic is 7.89per square foot. that means for standard 33gal tank that ~$120...seems expensive to me, is it cheaper elsewhere?

That would leak for me also. :lol:

Sorry to hear about your disaster. Did the seal break or did the glass break? If it was the glass I would say that you should add foam to the bottom to even out any imperfections. It sound kind of like a pressure point somewhere on the tank. If it was the seal then it probably is related to unclean glass at the time it was built. Either way it still sucks.

it was in the middle of the back piece of glass.

That sucks Sean, and is pretty odd too. Ours was on foam, so obviously that didn't help in our case. It certainly did seem to be a pressure point.

What shape was the crack, anything like ours?

actually its pretty similiar, it didn't separate as much as yours, but its got the same arc to it (although it doesn't go all the way to the bottom) I'll grap some pics of it this evening when i get home.

with all the plugs and bars on the floor i am amazed that nothing electrical shorted...I guess i am going to screw the electrical bars onto the wall now.

12-24 hours.. bah.. Do it right the first time and you can have water in it within 20 min. ;) lol

Ahh Doug.. that is why you need to hire me to do it for you. Fly me out, food and beer(forget lodging) and we are set. :)

Darren, that is irresponsible advice..sorry. And it was 24-48 hours wait for a full cure.

From www.cyro.com..

"The initial bond forms in five to ten seconds. Subsequent processing can be carried out after three hours. The bond will achieve high strength in 24 to 48 hours. Strength will continue to build for several weeks."

anyone know where you can get cheap arcylic 7.89 per square foot is too rich for me (rubbermaid tub here i come!). How would you go about glueing baffels into a rubbermaid anyways, as they do bow a bit?

Sorry Darren I will have to side with Brad with this one.. Acrylic tank manufactures don't recomend any pressure on a methel chloride joint for 24 to 48 hours MIN. they say while you might get luckey and it will hold togeather it will not reach its full potential of bond strength and could prematurly fail down the road.

Steve

Well then everything I have built over the last few years is due to explode. My new reactor I pressure tested after 30 min. Sump 15. Other reactors were the same. Skimmers, waste collectors. et al.

Now if I were building a tank that was holding a lot more water and was feeling a lot more pressure and highly succeptible to those pressures I would take it much slower. If as well, was built of a lot thicker acrylic than 1/4" then I would wait.

Do it right and ensure that you have a strong bond and multiple angles holding the joint together(ie many sides of a sump, baffles etc, reactor) you will have the structural integrity that is sufficient enough to hold it together.

The only way I have had a leak was due to an imperfect cut made on the acrylic prior to bonding. I haven't ever had anything made of acrylic break. But I guess I should be knocking on wood.

Do it right and you have a strong bond within a short period of time.

It seems to me, and I only speculate of course (just some random rambings on my part here...), but if the sump conformed perfectly to the inside dimensions of the stand, then this sump-inside-the-stand-idea also leverages some of its strength from the stand, not only the multiple edges and whatnot from the baffles. ...

Which kind of leads me to ...

I'm guessing here since I haven't done it myself, but .. Use a lot of silicone, and make an external wooden frame of some sort for the rubbermaid to prevent bowing.

hmmm, i *might* have another problem let me know what you think. The tank is on a concrete floor, with a thin carpet, then the 1/4 inch plywood. I am assuming some water would have gotten underneath the stand....will this pose a problem? The tank will only be in that spot for another year, so even if it does stay wet do u think it will cause a problem in that time frame?

I used rubbermaids for my sump and refugium but now (5 months later) I want to either make an acrlyic sump or retro-fit an old glass tank with baffles.

They bow pretty bad and are probably not worth the trouble trying to put baffles in. As you can see i cut out the top of the lid to give it support.

a pic:

http://members.shaw.ca/jackbee/jacksrefugium.jpg

Don't try using the thicker weldon thinking it is easier to make water tight joints. It will get messy and work against you. Almost always leaks somewhere. Trying to seal pourly cut edges with thicker weldon sucks. I would use a table saw to cut your acrylic pieces. If you don't have one, maybe your supplier can precut all pieces. Make sure the pieces are cut accurately and square.
Just had to throw in my 2 cents again. Its probably all cover in that link above anyway.

Kari

I purchased acrylic from an auto glass shop a few times and got a MUCH better price than the local plastic shops. All you need to do is speak very quickly and they forget what they were doing. Or bring beer.

Try the off-cut bin at Industrial Paints and Plastics. They usualy have a wide variety at our local shop. I'm going to build a sump from off-cuts.

it sucks when you wake up to that gurgling sound in the middle of the nite, i know first hand as well. the first time my sump cracked on the bottom, it was a 45 gal. hagen and i found myself in the same boat as you wondering how to get that thing out as my stand is up against the wall and that`s the only way to get it in or out. the second time was one of my astreas going down my outflow pipe and not being able to get past the ball valve and blocking it off and thus we had flood number 2. i was given some good advice by someone at my lfs build what ever you`re building to fail because it`s going to. oh yeah i fixed the sump by gluing a piece of acrylic to the bottom over the crack.

Now ya' got me worrying... :cry: . I've got 33's from the same "supplier". Couldn't pass-up a bargain ? I've had one in use as a sump for a year and a half. I just set up two more (new) in the basement "laboratory". The sump tank has a centre cross brace (plastic frame). The new ones do not. :frown: . All are drilled for 1" bulkheads in various locations. The sump is not on foam...uh-oh.
Were your's drilled ? Cross braced ? Full capaciity...?

mine had the regular black bracing and was only filled about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way....Don't want to scare you, but be carefull, I ain't getting another one from there.