Buying RO / DI - I know nothing
 

My folks will be buying an all in one Nano in the near future and the subject of water came up. I think we are going to install for them an RO/DI unit as they are already buying bottled spring water and an RO/DI unit will fill both roles, great drinking water and great reef water.

I know the concepts of RO/DI filtration but I do not know the name brands or setup or costs so any help would be appreciated. Their tank will probably be 32 gallons or less and so weekly water changes would be around 3 gallons. They drink on average 6 gallons a week(one 20 litre bottle) for a total of less than 10 gallons a week.

I originally thought of installing in the laundry room of the basement but the thought of them dragging the water up the stairs has me thinking installing on the main floor a better idea, maybe under the kitchen sink?

Where do I start for my research? What brands should I be looking at? Thanks much.

I saw a unit at costco with a spout for the sink but I don't know if it's "reef grade" It look nice I was thinking of picking it up for myself. I'll try to find more info.

You do know that RO/DI water isn't suitable for drinking, right? You have to unhook the DI part to just get RO for drinking, and buy the drinking water add-on. You can buy a pressure tank so you get RO water on demand, then just hook up the DI part when you want to make water for your reef. Or you can just use the 20 litre jugs (which are actually 5g, not 6).

Since you're in Surrey, your tap water won't be too bad, so you should look for a 4 stage. One each (in order); sediment, carbon, RO, DI. Imo brands really don't matter much, but the better brands are less breakable as they use better components for their fittings and housings. The cartridges should all be a standard size, so you don't have to worry about the brand of cartridges too much. I wouldn't buy anything less than 50 gpd otherwise it takes a long time to fill up a 5g jug. There will be a flow restrictor in the lines somewhere and it's rating needs to match the RO cartridge's rating. If you decide you want to upgrade to faster you just replace the flow restrictor (cheap), and get a matching RO cartridge when you do your first filter changes. 100 gpd units are less efficient and you will end up burning up your DI quicker. You can buy an optional flush kit (about $15-20) that will flush your RO membrane which is supposed to lengthen the life of the RO membrane. Some people think they work, others don't. I figure for $15, might as well try. The longer and more often you flush the better (like say flush for 2-3 mins after every use).

Bulk Reef Supply has some great RO/DI units that start at $189 I think and they use good fittings and housings. I have an AquaFX Barracuda 4-stage and I am very happy with it...the price has gone up lots in the last couple years though I think they are like $230 now when I only paid $189 for mine a year and a half ago. Generally, if you spend $200 on a 4-stage you will be getting a good quality product. Much less than that and you're buying an econo brand.

Oh OK nevermind!
:lol:

Hmm no I did not know this. Why would that be? Pure water is pure water no? Thank you for your reply.

DI water tastes like crap. It's no worse (or any different) than drinking RO or distilled water. In the end, it's all "pure" water. It's actually not good to drink any form of "pure" water as your main source of water as it lacks essential minerals for healthy living. Natural mineral water is much better for you.

I use a Aqua FX but without the DI. (Just sediment, carbon and then R/O membrane.) I decided against the DI as I get 0 TDS without it, and the water out here isn't that bad, and I have never had any issues.

Sorry but this is some old wive's tale. Water is needed by your body as a source of water, nothing else. Your minerals, salts etc. you get from your food.

The only possible consequence of drinking pure water is you miss out on the probable benefits of fluoride that the water company adds for your teeth.

ive picked up a unit on e-bay for 99.99 plus from aquasafe/pure and ive had good luck so far

ro
 

I have this one from Costco and installed it under my kitchen sink. I use it for my tank and for drinking water. http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product....rodid=10300796

I second that 0 ppm water is bad, if you drink DI'ed water at 0ppm you body will draw minerals from bones and blood, its not immediately lethal of course, but I would not drink it for sure.
Good rate is about 150-200ppm I drink bottled water sometimes 2000 or more ppm but no longer then a week.
So for drinking: RO tap water is ok DI not good.

As Snaz said this is an old wives tale/urban myth. Drinking purified water will not draw minerals out of your body. No way; aint gonna happen; not possible. The main drawback will be a very bland flavour which many people don't like. Drinking water is a negligible source of minerals for your body. It all comes from your food. Pure water in your gut cannot absorb enough minerals from anything to draw it out of your body. So drink whatever water you want, it doesn't make a difference. Personally, I'm okay with tap water. Nothing wrong with it at all. I save the RO/DI for the tanks :smile:

All you need is a t-connector to divert the RO water through a "taste" cartridge for drinking water - dead simple. I've installed my RO/DI under the kitchen sink upstairs connected to a tap. I run another line downstairs to laundry room within reach of the aquarium.

As mentioned, you can drink RO/DI to your heart's content. It just tastes bad which is the reason why household units have that taste cartridge which is usually filled with coconut husks. The DI water is instantly re-mineralized when it hits your saliva in any event. It's not some kind of vampire water that'll suck you dry. That misconception comes from the fact that you should NOT keep DI water in a metal container. It will react with the metal and cause rust in the container and contamination of the water.

Thanks for the help guys. Looking further into that Costco link Macky provided I came across this interesting fact.

"While standard reverse osmosis systems waste 15 or more litres (4 gallons) per every 4 litres (1 gallon) produced. The new patented "Zero Waste" reverse osmosis system wastes no water. "
http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product....835&lang=en-CA

Is this correct, how do standard RO units waste water? Surrey residents are metered for water use so wasting four gallons to produce one seems costly and not very "green".

I see that link to costco has a pic of the unit. This is a new system and I have not seen one yet. I guess it doesn't waste water as it uses the pump, electrically operated, to push all the water through the RO membrane. But this would coat the membrane with all the "bad" molecules you would normally pass out to the drain. So I would check to see how long of a life the membrane is rated for.
Normaly, Ro units make one gallon of good water and 4 gal down the drain. This will flush all the bad things down the drain, and this will lengthen the life of the RO membrane .
You could always plumb the drain water outside and water the lawn. Good only in the summer though!

The Watts RO zero waste system sends the waste water into the hot water line to be used for washing clothes, showering, etc. The bad part is that it only makes RO water when it is able the send the waste water into the hot water line(hot water has to be on and running). Therefore, the amount of RO water produced depends on how much hot water you use.
I chose to buy the one that wastes because I didn't think that the amount of RO water produced by the zero waste model would be enough for all my drinking water and tank water.

If you guys really believe RO or even RO/DI water is ok to drink, go check out what the World Health Organisation says about it.

After reading as much as I could take and then trying to navigate the WHO website. I can't see any where that says Ro water bad! RO/Di on the other hand seems to be a great debate and after further understanding why it's bad for us, it make me not want to use it at all for my tanks or anything for that matter.

RODI is good for tanks. You start out with just pure water, and then add salt. So the water then is perfect, no phosphates, or heavy metals

its Not the water in the gut that absorbs minerals, its what body will do to survive.
For example body will draw calcium from bones if blood has less then enough of calcium for proper hart beat rate.Why ? because hart is more important for survival the bones at the moment.
You can drink 0ppm water for long time without any ill effect, what body will do is it will take required minerals from whatever source available; food veggies etc. or other body parts if levels are critically low.
The point is to supply natural (Not synthetic) minerals to the body at regular intervals.
So yes tap water is OK to drink. RO/DI is OK to drink IF you have enough minerals in perfect proportions, but what we know in this hobby is that, if you don't test it you don't know where you at right?
jmtcw :smile:

You are right about what your body will do if you have low serum calcium but wrong about what role ro/di water can play. Sorry. The recommendation is that daily calcium intake be around 1000 mg/day. Our water on the west coast is pretty soft so calcium levels in the Vancouver area average around 1.4 mg/L. Areas with very hard water can be up to around 135 mg/L. Most spring water is around 20 mg/L. Mineral waters are higher and average around 200 mg/L. So to get your full calcium from lower mainland tap water you would have to drink over 700 liters every day. With the best mineral waters and given average water intake you could possibly get 40% of your calcium from drinking water. The majority of our calcium and other minerals come from the food we eat. Average daily intake of water is less than 2 liters. So in the lower mainland you are possibly getting 2 to 3 mg of calcium per day from your drinking water, or 2% of your daily intake. So a 2% reduction from drinking ro/di will make no real difference. If you are getting adequate minerals from your food or vitamin supplements then drinking RO/DI water will not change that. The minerals get absorbed by your body and used. If your diet is low in those minerals you probably won't get enough from drinking water to make up the difference unless you are drinking several liters of mineral water each day. You are better off talking a vitamin supplement etc. if you need it.

The type of water you drink will make no difference whatsoever. You are either getting enough in your diet or not. RO/DI wayter cannot and will not pull minerals from your body. It just isn't possible.

Also, I have seen people argue that ro/di water is acidic and therefor bad for you. While true in relation to regular tap water it is not a big deal. I believe ro/di water can get down to pH 6.0 or so by absorbing atmospheric CO2. However, compare this to stuff like pop or citrus juices and they are more acidic than ro/di water so that argument doesn't hold water either (sorry for the pun).

Anyhow, sorry if I sound confrontational. I just get irked by conclusions based on poor science, pseudo science or or just plain wrong information.

As an industrial and municipal water treatment consultant I just had to chime in. RO and DI water are fine to drink, they just taste flat. Your body does not rely on minerals in water for nutrition. A single piece of toast has many times the number of minerals several gallons of water has.

RO is used all over the world to produce fresh drinking water from seawater. Many of the bottled water companies use RO pretreatment.

GVRD water has the lowest concentration of dissolved minerals in North America. The need for RO here is marginal at best.

So, maybe someone can help Snaz with some useful information about RO and RODI units instead of debating weather or not you can drink the water from the unit and remain healthy.

You can pick up a 5-stage ebay unit for $100-$150 and turn it into "zero waste" by simply directing the reject water into your washing machine or outside to water the lawn.

Just make sure that it has:

1. 3-stage pre-filtering (mechanical filter, GAC, carbon block)
2. Genuine Dow Filmtec RO membrane
3. Manually refillable DI container

If you want to use it for drinking water (most come with it) then a "taste" cartridge with coconut husks for re-mineralization will be included. A holding tank is also useful.

A lot of people here (including myself) have Aquasafe ebay units which have proved very reliable. Unfortunately, that company is now DOA but there are many equivalents around. All the parts of RO systems are pretty much interchangeable and standard sizes so you can just buy new filters/parts in bulk from places like bulkreefsupply.com, for example.

While it is true that water quality in the Lower Mainland is excellent and that you really won't be improving water QUALITY by much with an RO unit, another reason to get one that is just as important is water CONSISTENCY - you know exactly what you are getting each and every time. All it takes is for a crew to be mucking outside without your knowing to turn pristine Vancouver tap water into silty run off. Also, after big storms the city will often add extra chlorine. This would all be bad news if were doing a water change or a top up.

I just ordered a system from BWI Plumbing. Decided on them since to the best of my knowledge it's a Canadian company, I was able to order on their website and paid Canadian $. I had also checked out Bulk Reef Supply and Buckeye Field Supply both of whom offer similar products at similar pricing, but once I calculated US$ exchange, shipping and possible brokerage fees, BWI seemed like the best option. The unit I ordered is their 4 stage system with auto shut-off/top-off options. It doesn't come with TDS meter, pressure guage or flush kit like the ones from BRS & BFS, but at just under $200 I thought it was the best bang for the buck. I have a handheld TDS meter and the flush kit, pressure guage etc. can be purchased locally and added on.

Could this work?
 

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/RO...+-+50+GPD.html
just a thought.