Dipping fish and corals
 

After reading poor my2rotties thread about the flukes, I think it's a great time to start a thread about dipping. If you dip, what products do YOU use, in what concentration, and for what length of time on your corals and on your fish? What parasites or diseases do you believe your product is effective against?




I dip fish in PraziPro. I use the recommended amount as per the label, and dip for 15-20 minutes. I don't have the bottle in front of me, but it works out to be very little in a litre of water...like a 1/4 of a drop or something ridiculous like that. I would like to think this rids my fish of external parasites, but I honestly don't think the concentration is high enough to do anything. I would like to find something that rids of internal parasites, but I think a full treatment in a QT would be required for effectiveness, and I don't QT because my tank is small and there are few fish. I'm interested to try out the medicated fish foods though.

I used to dip my fish in freshwater for 12-15 mins with matched pH, but found it very stressful for fish, so I quit doing that.

I don't do anything to my corals. I used to dip in a mild iodine solution (as per bottle instructions on Lugol's Solution), but I lost too many corals. So now I don't dip corals I just inspect them very closely.

I am not sure I am following you on this. Do I have this right you acclimate for the hour,
and then you use fresh water from your system, add prazipro to it and leave fish in there
for an extra 15 mins.? Is this how you did it ?

Ya, I have allways wondered in which order you dip/acclimate? One would think you should acclimate to the Dip first then acclimate to tank water??? I can see where this may become more stressful to the creatures..

Tagging along, thanks for posting this question since I just don't know what to do anymore...

I am going to be trying medicated food today at this point since I cannot get the Prazipro until tomorrow since the store that has it in stock is closed today.The product I can get today is praziquantel and I was told I can soak the fish food in it for feeding. I will now FOR SURE always dip my fish in Prazipro prior to putting them into my display. Fresh water dips scare the heck out of me and until I actually watch it get done, I am not comfortable in trying this. My lack of experience has already killed, and I don't want to do before the fish gets into my tank due to stress. I wish I knew about flukes in the first place...

totally speaking from perceived logic here and not experience, but if you dip second, whats the point acclimating first?
you're just acclimating them to one set of water params, throwing them in another and then back into the first again...

I would dip first, acclimate second.
but I don't dip or acclimate corals, Im just careful and lucky.
haven't lost one yet, nor have I had any run ins with unwanteds.

i do not do this for fish, but i do for corals.
I drip for an hour, just before i am ready to put them into the tank.
I add a premixed solution of medication and tank water to the water they are already acclimated to wait 15 minutes then rinse in tank water in separate bucket and drop into the tank.

This means that you only acclimate them one time and ensures you do not get any medication added to your tank, should work exactly the same for fish.

I'll use an iodine dip on hard corals but I never acclimate them. Just dip for a few seconds in freshwater/lugols solution and then into the tank.

I will be borrowing a 90g for a QT tank. Will the prazipro damage the silicone or cause issues like copper does to a tank? I promised never to use copper on his tank but want to make sure that I can return the tank all cleaned up and have no worries of anything seeping out into the water later.

I believe it is not copperbased if you are in question. Prazipro has imformation on it
I think you just type in Prazipro and it should come up. Good-luck

My Current fish Acclimation proceedure

Float bag to acclimate temperate
Open bag.
Cup hand in bag
slowly bring fish out of bag with my hand.
Release in tank

My Current acclimation of Coral (know source)
float bag
Open bag
Mount coral

My Current acclimation of Coral (unknow source)
Float bag
Pour contents in to container
Use Tropicmarin Procure in container
Wait 15minutes
Mount in tank

To clarify, my fish acclimation procedure:

Pour bag into 2 litre styrofoam container (styro so it doesn't lose too much heat)
Drip from display tank into container for 1 hour
Scoop fish into dip water (either RO/DI with pH matched to display tank, or PraziPro)
Wait 10-15 minutes watching fish carefully
Scoop fish into 2 litre container of display tank water (to rinse off)
Wait 10 minutes
Inspect the dip water for icky things that have fallen off the fish
If icky things are found I decide whether I think I have gotten them all with the dip or if the fish needs to go into QT with meds
Scoop fish into display tank

Now I skip the fw dip, and just drip, then scoop into display tank. If you dip you have to dip after acclimation otherwise you are putting your fish back into the "dirty" bag water, and makes the dip a moot point. When I say scoop, I turn the container at an angle so the water comes to the edge, but doesn't spill over, then I use my hand to herd the fish over the edge hopefully taking as little of the container water as possible.



For corals:

Fill large mouthed container with sides I can see clearly through with display tank water
Open bag, lift coral out, place into container with display tank water (no acclimation)
Swish coral gently and/or use turkey baster on the coral
Hold container near bright light (natural light works best)
Inspect coral and water for icky things that have fallen off the coral
If icky things are found, remove them, and place coral into new batch of display tank water, swish again, inspect again
If REALLY icky things are found coral goes into QT with medication
If no icky things are found, or icky things are easy to remove, they are removed, and coral is placed in tank

I think "icky" might be my new "word of the day" lol :behindsofa:

Myka, sorry I missed what medication(s) you use if "icky things" lol are found on corals? Thanks Brad

A dip procedure is no a replacement for a proper QT.

I don't QT corals but always dip and this has bit me more than once. I will be investing to $ is upgrading my QT system for corals soon because of it.

I always QT fish. Prazi and thing like that really need more than one treatment to be effective. You also get a chance to observe the fish and make sure it is eating and gets used to you before you put it in a more complicated and competitive environment like your display.

Depends what the icky things are. :D Flatworms? Flatworm Exit. Red bugs? Interceptor. Majano/Aiptasia? Joe's Juice. That's really all the icky things I have found on corals that have required any treatment. I QT corals from questionable sources, or corals that I buy in poor condition. They are usually just QTed for observation and target feeding.

Everything is relative. It depends what types of corals you keep, the size of your system, and how much money it is all worth, your experience in being able to detect icky things, the quality of your coral sources, what you're willing to risk, etc. Wild corals I find pose a greater threat in that you never know what you might get, where frags or corals from existing setups usually potentially only have a handful of pesky critters which are normally easy to see if you inspect the coral, and check out the suppliers' system(s) well. Most coral diseases (brown jelly, black line, rtn, etc) are caused by aquarists' mistakes, poor maintenance, improper setup, etc.

PraziPro, I also believe needs to be used as a medication not a dip to be entirely effective, however, I don't believe that it is good practice to medicate every fish before it enters your system as medicating the fish may inhibit the fishes' future immune system, damage kidneys/liver, or who knows? I medicate a fish ONLY when I know there is an issue, and ONLY when a freshwater dip hasn't worked to what I feel is an effective enough result. I believe that dips are too short to cause damage to a fish provided the concentration isn't too high. For fish, I think the same aspects of relativity apply as I mentioned for corals above.

I agree that a 10-15 minute dip in standard drug concentration will not be entirely effective. Instead, I prefer a bath process rather than the long-term immersion recommended on the drug labels, as I've read that the effectiveness and concentration of the drug decreases during the usual treatment periods (due to exposure to light and salt water).

My standard QT process with PraziPro is a concentrated bath for 1.5 to 3 hours. I usually start with a concentration of 20 mg/litre (8 times the long-term dose), and target 1.5 hours. If the fish is not tolerating this concentration, I'll bail on the bath and instead go for 10 mg/litre for 3 hours the next day. I've found that perhaps 1 in 4 fish do not tolerate the higher concentration.

I usually do the bath in a 2 gallon container with an airstone. Given the length of the process, I hang the container inside the QT so that the temperature does not drop. When the bath is finished, I simply pour the 2 gallons and the fish back into the QT. My QT is a 70 gallon tank, and the residual concentration of PraziPro is quickly removed by carbon.

The only regular drug that I do with a long term immersion is chloroquine (for ich and marine velvet), and it doesn't affect the biological cycle.

^ That's the sort of thing that really freaks me out. If the fish isn't tolerating it very well (and 1 in 4 is a huge number!), then I would be concerned about the long-term health of the fish.

Myka,

I should probably provide a bit of context on my comments ...

To me, tolerating means not noticeably increasing respiration rate, skin tone remains unchanged, attention to surroundings is constant, and balance and equilibrium remains unaltered. This is similar to the guidelines I use for judging the tolerance of fresh water dips. In contrast, I would categorize gasping at the bottom of the container as something that freaks me out.

I have only treated about 8-10 fish with the 20 mg, and all but 2 have been fine for the 1.5 hour treatment ... probably not a statistically valid sample though. Both of the fish who had trouble with the 20 mg swam through the 10 mg for 3 hours without a problem.

In addition, I wasn't that surprised when the 2 fish showed difficulty with the 20 mg, as they were both in very rough shape (rapid breathing, swollen, blood-red gills), and in my opinion, their long-term prognosis was "dead within a week" if the PraziPro didn't work.

It is also my understanding that public aquariums regulatory treat all new fish arrivals in a 10 mg concentration as a prophylactic treatment, so it's not a new approach. Hope this helps to alleviate some apprehensions about carefully trying out higher concentrations as a bath rather than long-term immersion.

I do like the idea of baths more than dips or several day long treatments.

TTT. I would really like to read more about people's prodcedures. :)

After you made this post, I do what you do Myka. I also add cupamine to the water as well, but am not sure if it will do too much. I just do it anyways. My biggest concern is Laurie's disaster and I wonder what protocols should be followed to prevent marine velvet.

I have not lost any fish do disease since, and when I removed some fish from my system and rehomed them, I added prazipro to the bucket of water I was transporting them in... just to be sure the fish was not carrying anything.

I have had no disease of any kind since my last disaster and appreciate you posting this info...

For my softie corals I prepare a solution of 50/50 salt water. Basically a cup of water from the tank and a cup of fresh and then a half cap of iodine.

I shake the hell out of the coral for 2 minutes in this solution. If nothing nasty floats off then in the tank it goes. If something washes off I don't like it goes in the garbage.

Back in my discus/angels days; process was pretty clear...

When you receive new fish, unbag them into bucket - dose meds at ~ 2x recomended dose - then start your drip... After 1.5-2hrs transfer by net to a clean bucket of water, (rinse) then into the tank.

Whether this works with SW - to be determined... But it was pretty much SOP for the Discus, and I usually used it with the wild caught / risky source angels too.

After everything I've been through with marine velvet I have to agree. FYI Dips do not get rid of velvet and velvet can not be seen in the bucket after a dip is done.

I follow the same procedure except fish and corals go into a quarantine tank.

How long do you QT for typically? What do you watch for? If the fish appear healthy after a set amount of days, do you shorten the time at all? How long does it take for disease to usually show?

If there are no signs of problems then I quarantine the fish for 6 weeks. If there are problems the fish goes into a hospital tank, treated and then quarantined for 6 weeks after treatment.
Problems to watch for, excessive flashing (scratching), rapid respiration, not eating, no interest in surroundings (constant hiding) and any obvious parasites ( I have even used a magnifying glass ) .
By the time the fish goes into the display tank, they have resigned themselves to living in a glass box, are gaining weight and they aren't scared of me constantly peering at them :lol:

[quote=my2rotties;415076] My biggest concern is Laurie's disaster and I wonder what protocols should be followed to prevent marine velvet.

[quote]

After all the reading I've done on velvet the only way to advoid it getting into your system (from a fish that has it) is to QT the fish in a seperate tank disconected from the main display system. Dips will not work in the long run against marine velvet. The symptoms to watch for is loss of appetite, and rapid breathing. After these symptoms the fish will become covered in what looks like a dusting of flour or a velvety sheen. Unfortunately by the time you can visablely see this disease it will most likely be to late to save your fish.

I recall you mentioning how large your QT tank is but I don't remember. Also how big is the hospital tank? I am done for adding fish now and feel very fortunate I did not have a big disaster... I know to stop now.

Do you QT corals for six weeks as well? What do you look for with those, since we will be adding corals to the display one or two more times until next winter. If winter ever ends in my parts.

What I find disturbing is these symptoms sound identical to what happened to my three angels I lost. However nobody else got ill, and nothing has been amiss since those losses. When I added the regal into the acclimation tank, I was sweating bullets watching him and waiting. I still to this day have no clue as to what the meds the store gave me were just in case. I know it is not copper.

[quote=fishoholic;415161][quote=my2rotties;415076] My biggest concern is Laurie's disaster and I wonder what protocols should be followed to prevent marine velvet.

It's a hagen 48g with a modded maxijet, a heater, a cpr bak pak skimmer, 2 40w fluorescent light, and some live rock. The corals I usually only keep in there a week but don't do as I do with them...I ended up with acro red bugs in the display tank :redface:

You really need to post pictures of the entire system. I love your tank... but it is good see what actually makes the display so awesome in the long run.