Pet foods!
 

Since Diana sort of started on the topic when she introduced her adorable new adoptee, I figure we should continue on it.

I wanna hear about pet food. What do you feed and why? Raw, kibble, mix of both?

I feed kibble, because my dogs need to be on a low-protein diet. Low-protein here actually means low purines, however its sometimes difficult to figure out the purine content of a food, so the blank decision is to look for lower protein foods. I also feed my dogs veggies (carrots, tomatos, etc) as snacks, on top of eggs, wet food, snowballs (a well loved winter treat) and dog treats.

I feed kibble.
I have a 6 year old german short haired pointer.
I was using nutro (and nutro max cat for my kitties) and was extremely satisfied with it until I read that one of the major brands of pet food had bought them out and shortly thereafter, a bunch of animals died from eating their wet food (i wasn't feeding wet, but tha was too big of a breach of trust for me to continue using their product on things I would like to keep around for a while).
so now I am trying to find a good kibble to replace the nutro stuff...

I feed my cats orijen, and their coats look better than maxcat ever had em looking.

I feed Now!

http://www.petcurean.com/index.php?page_id=161

It was hard to find a lower protein, super-premium dog food. My vet told us to get off of the Wellness Core we were feeding, because he is a believer in the fact that too high a protein affects the liver, and indeed my dobes liver tests were elevated before she had surgery last fall.

My dobe will be considered a senior (7), and my GSD tends to just be too plump, so we chose the senior/weight management variety.

They get it mixed with a small amount of Deli-fresh dog food, and warm water.

A good link for things to avoid in dog food, and all kinds of other good information:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index....badingredients

We feed our dog Eagle Pack Holistic select kibble. All Canadian content (no Chinese crap) and no or little corn filler. We have a miniature Schnauzer which have a tendancy to get fat easy. This food has kept him healthy and happy since we brought him home.

I have two Dalmatians, one 100% pure, and the other is questionably pure...until Champion Foods, they make Orijin and Acana, changed their receipes, my dogs both loved them. Now we're bouncing between foods trying to find something that works. Its a huge PITA because my older dog is such a picky eater. We are feeding Go now, which is made by the same people Emily mentioned, although it isn't looking like its the right food for us, it creates a lot of mess, and my older dog now has stupid amounts of gas.

Thanks for the link Emily!

I have a Blk Lab & a Golden Ret. they both get ORIJEN 6 FRESH FISH with SEA VEGETABLES. I would like to put them on a raw food diet but I just can't get my head around how to do it. I know it would be about 350/mth, that part doesnt bug me so much, I just cant figure out all the portion correctly.

I got some great instruction from my favorite pet place, however that was about 6 months ago, so I've pretty much forgotten it. My dogs thumbed their noses at raw food, and when they ate it, they had foul! breath.

My dog was on a 100% raw meat diet for a long time, but when I moved to Kelowna I couldn't find any affordable raw meat sources, so I was forced to switch to kibble which is considerably cheaper, even though I feed Ultra Grade.

I feed 75/25 Wellness Core Chicken and Turkey/California Naturals Lamb & Rice. The Wellness Core is an ultra grade high protein, no grain food. My dog gets stinky farts and needs to eat a lot of it though, so I add just a little bit of the California Naturals to give her a small amount of rice for carbohydrates which increases her energy, gets rid of farts, and she eats less. Plus she gets 3 different protein sources. It's the perfect combination for her.

I am always interested to hear people's experiences with dog foods...

My dogs were on kibble and Deli Fresh for years before we recently switched to raw foods. We tried many different brands of kibble, with our dogs loosing interest in any particular brand after a couple months. Deli Fresh is alright but it still has grains in it (I dont feel like grains are bad for dogs, but I dont think they can digest it fully, and I know they cannot digest cellulose).

My 4 year old girl has always had really bad skin allergies... and she always reacted to something in the winter. So we switched her right over to raw and she has been GREAT. Her skin is getting better and her coat just gleams, not to mention she is putting on weight and muscle which is great cus she has always been on the thin side.

My 2 year old boy has always put on weight easily, and will eat almost anything. Since raw he has thinned down to ideal weight and he seems to have calmed down.

I dont think kibble is entirely bad, but I have heard some horror stories about it, and after doing a lot of research on the BARF diet I really cant think of any reason not to do raw (except maybe the cost, but since we have small dogs it hasnt been that bad). Plus the dogs just LOVE it. Thier poops are smaller, breath better (depending on the meat), and no stinky farts! hehe.

They get beef, chicken, venison, elk, buffalo, eggs, lamb, duck... the possibilities are endless. Most of the meat comes from dog food stores, but I will buy ground beef and buffalo at the grocery store. I pulp some veggies to add a bit in and they will get a meal of cooked rice & egg once a week to give them a chance to "fast" and completely digest their stomach contents.

Sorry for writing so much but I am excited to share my good experiences with BARF diet. :D

-Diana

Does this ^ work? Where did you get the advice for this? sounds healthy for a dog...

As long as your not worried about missing out essential nutrients, salmonella, E. coli and bone fragments piercing the esophogus, stomach or intestinal tact :mrgreen:

I feed Acana to my dogs. To keep them from loosing interest in the taste I mix a spoonful of Eagle Pack Holistic Select wet food into it.

They get everything they would eat in nature (plus some!) I do not see how they could possibly be missing essential nutrients :D. There are supplements available, I picked up some salmon oil to help with the coat, and I might try some alfalfa powder, but past that apparently they are getting everything they need. Dont be fooled about the kibble that adds all these viatmins and minerals into thier foods... they add it because the foods lack it to begin with! ;)

Not at all worried about salmonella & e coli, there have been more cases of dogs being sick from canned foods. Plus they have a highly acidic stomach (and super short digestive tract) that kills most bacteria.

And bone fragments? All the meats I give them are fully 100% ground, it looks like canned tuna. Raw bone does not splinter... its cooked bone that can be seriously bad for your dog. I would NEVER feed cooked bone (and no one should!).

I was worried about all these things too... until I did a lot of research and realized these were all myths. ;) Again, kibble is fine, but raw so far has been great to my doggies.

-Diana

Diana is right, those are myths. When I fed raw my dog (who is 85lbs) was given chunks of meat with the bones attached. In the case of chickens she got the bones with them too. Like Diana said, raw bones don't splinter, they are actually quite flexible. It is actually much better for dogs to get chunks of meat with the bone in than to get ground meats as the chewing helps to clean their teeth, and also stimulate saliva production which helps to digest the food, and clean their mouth (better breath). Ground meats also often contain quite a bit more fat than is ideal. I never fed ground meats because I wanted to be able to see what my dog what eating, as I believe that is half the point of raw feeding. As long as you feed proper meats (high quality, and not too fatty) with enough offal meats (organs) and fish your dog will be eating a more complete diet than even ultra grade kibble. You just need to be educated and aware of proper nutrition.

Having worked with dogs all my life, including helping vets, I have seen at least one of those myths happen many times. Lets just say there is not a hope I would ever feed my dog any meat products that wasn't cooked first.




I should also mention the salmonella and e.coli myths are not just the dogs problem but the owners too...you know one of those zoonotic thingys ;)

You only have issues if you don't follow the rules. People do dumb things (like poor unthawing practices, or not refrigerating meat properly thinking the dog doesn't need that, etc). ;) Your chances of getting e. coli or salmonella poisoning yourself isn't any greater than if the meat was for yourself. A dog may choke on a bone if he's a gobbler...gobblers are made from using kibble. Transitions are the only part that is at all risky, but common sense and a few preventatives goes a long way.

I started feeding home prepared food for my rotties since 1998, when my first ended up with cancer. I don't do BARF but I cook home prepared human grade meals for my pups. I do not vaccinate aside of rabies since I live out in the woods but will not do it yearly and will titer to see if it is needed or not.

Sadly five of my six (one is not even two year old yet) have died of various cancers. It is epidemic in this breed, and I hope Cyren will not be a part of this heart breaking strong of losses. My soul mate rottie Diva lived only seven years, never ate dog food or had a vaccine in her life. Most of my rotties get seven years no matter what the history of their lives are. I have rescued a couple along the way, and always will (anyone knowing of a rottie in need let me know).

My dogs get chicken, beef, liver, ground beef, veggies, and anything we are eating which means breakfast lunch and dinner on weekends. They thrive with their diet are not fat and are the picture of health until cancer comes knocking. I wish I knew why this is happening but dispite my best efforts it seems to find my dogs.

My dogs never need the vet unless it is something stupid or its for spay or neuter surgery. I find that if you spend the time and money on their diets, the payback is awesome. I have no issues with food allergies anymore, since they don't eat dogfood of any kind. They don't get grains and those seem to be an issues with yeast infections in their ears and skin allergies or itchie butts.

When I did the raw stint with chicken I NEVER fed the long bone like thighs or legs to my dogs. I had a good friend that raised rotties and she gave turkey legs and thighs to her crew. Her girl died due to a bone that pierced her intestines. I feed cooked chicken necks and backs and they never pose a problem since the bones are small and easily chewed up. Some dogs wolf down their food and will wolf down bones that are not really bite sized. I would not chance feeding long bones of poultry of any kind. My friend's heart break was enough for me not to take the chance.

Most nutrients in dogfood are lost due to the cooking process. I feel that dogfood is comparable to us eating Purina human chow every day. It may fill our nutritional needs, but I find a variety of foods keep them happily eating and if the eat something dead in the woods they don't ever get sick. I hear about dogs getting into the garbage and getting pancreatitis and almost dying from it. My dogs can eat anything and never get the runs or gassy ever.

Eeep! I would never feed cooked chicken bones! That's scary!

We have 2 purebred whippets. We got cabana at 8 wks, and toots @ 6 months or so. Cabana was on mountain dog food(which is ground up pre made chicken) when we first got her and toots was on kibble. After a couple days we ran out of MDF and started to just feed chicken legs from the grocery store because we could get a good deal on them. We switched toots over to raw when we got her and she loved it right away, and we noticed huge improvments in her coat, attitude, and her "waste".

They get raw eggs, shell and all, broccoli, carrots and apples, and brown rice once in awhile as well. Very seldom do they get beef or pork. We noticed it just gave them bad gas!!

We also were given one of those dog food salami looking things...It says premium dog food...da da da...After 3 or 4 feedings of that stuff we noticed our dogs couldnt stay away from the water bowl. Then i put two and two together and realized that they get little or no sodium in there raw diet, and now this so called premium soft dog food is just loaded with salt and they need to drink and drink and drink.

Also, and this could mean nothing as well, but i notice that our cat, who is a few lbs smaller than our dogs and east cheap no name kibble, will take a bigger "dump" than our dogs. Maybe its the food or maybe its not.

3 months ago we switched back to the premade raw, which IMO is not as good as raw from the grocery store. But for every one who thinks raw is so much more money I beg to differ. We did an order from mountain dog food and to have it shipped from van to our door in burns lake, we paid 1.68 per pound. We bought 300 lbs i believe. If we were to buy 500+ lbs then it would be under 1.50 per pound. So if there is a quality kibble that can be purchased for less than that i am all ears.

As much as we like the results of raw, at least on our dogs, we are expecting in june and are going to switch to kibble for sanitation sake!

Hope that made sense, its early!

my pointer LIVES for chicken.
He lOVES raw, bone in chicken and has never had a problem stremming from it.
I usually give hin necks and backs, sometimes thighs for a treat.

My animals all seem to require different things and, as such, get different diets. Feeding time in this house is fun. :)

One cat has a problem with bladder crystals, so is fed 1/5 can Hill's c/d in the morning and 1/4 cup of dry in the evening.

The other cat gets the same. She hasn't had any issues, but it's good maintenance and her coat is shiny. Doesn't hurt.

The mini American Eskimo we have has teeth problems -- she has an underbite, and she's cursed with the horrible "small dog" dirty teeth, so has been put on hill's t/d prescription diet (yes. It's an expensive food bill we carry). She also gets a teaspoon of canned go! every night as an extra. The go! is better food than I myself eat on a day to day basis!

We also have an 80 lb boxer/rotti who very full of energy -- we considered the raw diet, but it doesn't fit into our lifestyle very well, with the thawing, etc. And camping would also make this difficult. She is also allergic to corn and corn products, so dealing with her runny stools is definitely not an option. We opted to put her on Orijen -- it's the closest I've ever seen kibble come to the raw diet. She seems to absolutely love it, and fills up pretty good. Not completely, but I'm of the opinion that she will never feel completely satisfied! She also gets a portion of the canned go! at night.

All four of them get pieces of chicken/beef/bison/moose whenever I cook dinner.

I work at a vet clinic, and they actually recommend Purina's vet diet for most maintenance diets. There ARE corn by products in the food, but they apparently have specific proteins that are necessary for clean eyes, coat, etc. I've done a few in-services, but I'll admit that not a lot of the information stayed -- this happens when I get interrupted by customers and phone calls! The stuff is guaranteed, though -- if a dog doesn't like it, or the owners don't like the smell, or an animal is allergic to it -- Purina offers a 100% money back guarantee. This in itself speaks volumes -- I don't know of any other pet food company that will back this kind of guarantee up without a fight.

Pedigree is the company who bought nutro who then poisoned a lot of animals.
No trust in that company, money back or not.
http://www.squidoo.com/Nutro-Dog-Food


edited.
pedigree, NOT purina.

I wasn't aware of that.

Looks like I have some more reading to do. I'm glad my critters aren't on it, if that's the case!!

http://www.mountaindogfood.com


If you are concerned with the raw diet and the freezing and thawing and mess, its really not too bad once you get a "system".

When we were feeding chicken legs (drumsticks) we would just buy a large pack (liek 20ish) put in fridge and feed one leg each every meal. 2 meals per day.

The premade raw comes in different package sizes so its pretty easy then. The stuff we have is in 5lb block maybe?....We take it out of the freezer and thaw it in the sink for a few hours then it goes into a large ziplock bag and into fridge. then we scoop out there meals. The only hassle is the ziplock bag gets dirty from scooping! and then you need to wash your hands.

It is a bunch more work than just throwing a big bowl of kibble on the floor and lettin em go at it. But our dogs are worth all of the extra effort!

Okay, so Oscar apparently has been being fed crap for food. I've been following this thread and am considering switching over to a raw diet. I figure now would be a good as time as any to get the boys eating properly.

So what are the steps? How do I find BARF/raw food recipies? Has anyone noticed any negative effects of switching over from kibble to raw?

That system fails miserably when you don't know when you'll be home after work. I'm all about systems..... I'm also apparently all about them not working properly. Heh.

www.dogfoodanalysis.com

For those of you feeding kibble, here is a great website that breaks down the ingredients for you so you can understand them, points out strengths and weaknesses of food, and rates the food. You may be surprised just how crappy your dog food may be! :eek:

I guess its nice to know when you will be home. But you dont need to thaw it if you dont want, just chuck it in the fridge and scoop out the slop when ever you can.




If you are just switching over you need to be ready for some bad gas and some gross piles! And be careful of large bone, the dog may not be interested at first either, so ramp it up each day.

There are really no special recipes. If you know any hunters or butchers that can supply you with scraps that is a very cost effective way. Like i said we used to just go to the grocery store and buy chicken legs, thighs, duck, turkey necks, beef liver, raw eggs, carrots, rice....Pretty much what was cheap or on sale or marked down.

I have to chime in again, and mention to everyone how easy feeding raw has been for me. There are a few different types of raw I give to my dogs:

1) Nature's Variety pre-made frozen medallions. Has veggies, raw meat, bone and offal all mixed into pre-shaped round medallions. This makes it unbelievably easy to feed. I keep the bag frozen in the freezer, and take maybe 6-8 medallions out at a time (I have 3 dogs), and put them in a ziploc tupperware designated for raw meat, and put them in the fridge to defrost. I will defrost them in the evening so they are ready the next day, and I do about 2 days worth at a time. The bag costs about $15 and has 48 pieces, so it lasts me all month combined with the other foods I feed below. I probebly spend about $40-50 a month on dog food. You can get larger sizes for bigger dogs, I am unsure of the cost.
Here's a picture:
http://www.naturesvariety.com/sites/...lions_Lamb.jpg

And a link to thier site:
http://www.naturesvariety.com/

2)I will buy "bulk" meats ground with bone and offal packaged into small airtight packages, keep them in the freezer, and defrost one at a time (again, 1 package will last me a couple days). I keep the defrosted meat in another ziplock tupperware. I can pretty much get any meat I feel like :D.

3)I buy regular ground beef or bison from the grocery store and make this recipe called "Satin Balls" which helps my skinny dog beef up a little. I just omit the grain from the recipe. http://www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm.

4)Once a week I "fast" them to help them digest any bone pieces in thier gut. For this day they get semi-cooked eggs, with shell, and some veggies pulped. I also give them some Salmon oil to help with thier coats and I will try the alfalfa powder as well. :)

I make sure I wash my hands, cutlery, and counter tops after feeding the dogs, and the containers I keep the meat in go through the dishwater frequently. But honestly, if you cook with raw meat then you already know how to keep your kitchen clean, and there is nothing else to worry about.

This site has been helpful, but there are lots of websites out there on BARF diet. :) http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

HTH
-Diana

I try to leave pet nutrition with the specialists, and not to the chicken leg feeders...lol I hope I never have to feed raw chicken...

Seriously, my dogs are indoor dogs and I am imagining giving them a raw chicken leg...

and...someone I know just went raw, and their dog died from salmonella poisoning.

Why raw? The canine in the wild is very short lived. ?

We adopted a greyhound who was on the track for 3 years. All raw. His teeth were horrible. How do you raw feeders deal with that?

I brush the dog's teeth a few times a month (mainly because Taro has a crooked tooth and he gets plaque), but I honestly have not had them on raw long enough to see any degradation in tooth health. If they chew raw bone it should clean their teeth. I can foresee their teeth getting bad on just ground raw food... but my dogs had plaque with kibble too so I believe you should always brush their teeth. Plus they get lots of rawhide chews and stuff.

I would be interested in hearing more about your friend's dog that died from salmonella. What raw food was he/she feeding and where did she get it? Was it frozen properly and/or refrigerated? Was the dog otherwise healthy?

I do not believe wild dogs (and I am mainly thinking wolves) are short-lived. A great book called "Decade of the Wolf" following the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone details the lives of many of the wolves, and most lived average ages for domesticated dogs.... some even pushing 10.

Its interesting to me because people look at dogs in two ways: wild wolves, or domesticated kibble eaters. Have we forgotten the 10,000 years in between? Dogs have been eating table scraps and the leftovers from cleaning human kills for nearly 10,000 years. For the most part they have deviated from consuming fresh kills. But they have been fed kibble for only maybe a bit longer than 100 years (it would be interesting to look into the subject further). My dog's allergies were enough to question their kibble consumption.

Something that pushed me into feeding raw for ethical reasons was an article similar to this one:
http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html

I always take everything I hear with a grain of salt, but it was enough to make me at least consider alternative ways. I am otherwise mostly vegetarian (I will consume organic and free range animals occasionally) so it was important for me to also provide my dogs with meat that was treated ethically not only in life but also in death (ie- organic and free range meats).

Ah sorry again for writing so much, but the subject interests me. :)

-Diana

A friend of ours has a dog who has been on raw for nine yrs and had never had any dental work done, not even regular brushing and the teeth were in pretty good shape, no gnarly black junk and breath was decent.


I was always told that dogs cannot get salmonella and ecoli becuase of there very short digestive tract...But if a person with a weakend immune system were to handle the waste, they may come into contact with either germs.

The bacteria can also be present in the animals saliva

Haha yeah, I have to admit I have been hesitant to receive kisses from my dogs since going raw... and there is definitely no longer kisses in the mouth! Okay, I have revealed too much, I am going to bed.

I at times find it comical when I see posts saying "Chinese Junk" in dog food, and people complaining about regulations affecting the dog food trade.

Did you know with human food, it can be caught, processed, packaged in China (or any overseas country), then shipped to Canada to be re packaged to meet with our standards, and as long as more than 50% of the total wholesalers cost is incurred in Canada, they can label the product as "Made In Canada". Yes that fresh Salmon could have been caught, filleted, and originally packaged in China.

China is attempting to get full FDA regulations at this moment and is going through stringent regulation applications to do so. They are under the lens of a microscope and it isn't the country as a whole causing these issues, it is a few bad eggs which can occur anywhere. The first person found directly linked to the pet food scandal was put to death for his crimes, in Canada or the US do you think they would have gotten much more than a slap on the wrist and a warning, possible fine, maybe worst case scenario a little time in jail?

There are a lot of issues in Canada which caused deaths with our own people in the last few years...Maple Leaf...how many people did they just kill, and now they have just shipped out wieners that were specifically tagged DO NOT SHIP as they did not pass QC testing.

Going back a little further the Walkerton water issue. How many people were killed by that? They never did mention an animal toll but I am sure there were. The person responsible admitted guilt of fraudulent documentation and concealing test results, and what happed to him, I can tell you he wasn’t put to death.

The biggest issue at hand isn’t the Chinese; it is our regulators who should be testing incoming foods to our country. It is our regulators who allow food being processed in other places to be labelled “Made in Canada”. And we ourselves can do more by being aware of what we buy.

I have rescued 2 English Bulldogs; they were both fed Nutro Max Lamb and Rice dry at the recommendation of 2 Veterinarians after we found food allergies with the first one to chicken. The first rescue was deemed to be not salvageable by the local humane society, I got him when he was just 5, and he lived to be over 10, a great life for any Bulldog. The second rescue we got when he was 1, was told he may not survive, and his digestive system will never be right and may need special food for the rest of his life. He lived to be over 11. Now my 2 year old is eating the same, and have never had an issue with him.

I am not saying lets all jump off the grid, build a home made of solar panels, and grow all our own food while wearing Birkenstocks and hugging the trees, but, you shouldn’t live under a rock thinking it is all the other countries causing the issues we see here.

And they aren’t out to get us; they are experiencing the same if not worse issues themselves.

The vet there said it was a fairly common occurence. They couldn't find any other explanation, the dog had eaten raw chicken (in fact the family consumed the same chicken, albeit cooked). Kidney failure took the 7 month old dog in about four days.

Man, I could never go without dog kisses !!!! :surprise:

apparently my boys have such an afinity for ear wax and boogers trying to avoid puppy kisses would be useless.

I missed this comment last night.
10 is not old for a domesticated dog, yes for some breeds like great danes ect but we had a black lab that lived to be 18yrs old and I have a shih-tzu right now who will be 15 in march. You should at least expect 12-14 happy years out of a dog and more often 16 yrs+ is the norm for the smaller breeds

Of course 10 years is not old for a domesticated dog, thats why I said "average". Some dogs reach only 7 years, some dogs can live well into their teens. I am hoping for 15 years out of my dogs (small breed). Wolves in the wild are often killed by rival packs once they start to slow down, but it is not uncommon for them to live past 10, which IMO is pretty damn good, even for domestic dog standards. The point I was trying to make is that thier lifespans are not "short". But alas, we really cannot compare our domesticates to them, since they are but distant relatives.