To zeo or not to zeo
 

Ok so my tank has been on the zeovit program for almost 6 months now, some days I'm happy with it, other days I'm not. Mostly those days are when I see a gorgeous tank that isn't on zeo, or a gorgeous tank that is. Nitrates have always been an issue, they weren't before I started zeo and they're hovering around 20-30. This really ticks me off. But its not really the problem.

One of my clams has had some issues for the past two weeks. I thought it was pinched mantle but I posted over on the old clamsdirect forum (now reefaquariumforum.com) and they say it doesn't look like pinched mantle but they can't nail it down to anything else. They think it ay possibly be a nutrient issue (ie. nutrients too low) but I have 6 other clams and they're all fine. however with my nitrates at 40 seems odd. Theres nutrients in there somewhere, I can see the caulerpa grinning at me evilly from places I can't reach :razz:

Anyhoo, I'm thinking about stopping zeo for awhile. At the same time my clam started up I treated my tank with erythromycin to kill both the red slime algae which was plagueing my tank (not to the same extent that GreenSpottedPuffer was experiencing, mind you I don't have a sandbed) and help out the clam (bacterial issues were suggested). The erythromycin ended up doing in the cyano :woot: but didnt' do much for the clam. After the treatment I did a 10% waterchange (which I do weekly) and then a few days after that I did a 20% waterchange. I also ran carbon changing it out every 5 days. IMO I think the waterchange has done more for the clam than the treatment. Anyhoo, some stuff browned out (oddly enough only the corals that had yellow or green in them, other stuff is well, the same as it was before.

So, I dunno, is it possible to keep doing the zeo while dosing things for the clam? Or dosing things for the nitrates? Is it even worth it, sounds like I'm sort of working them against each other (ie. trying to keep nutrients up for the clam while using zeo to keep them down?).

Thoughts?

And no flames on the erythromycin, I was told its a main ingredient in many of the slime removers, I don't have a sandbed and the only repercussions so far are a couple of browny yellow corals and some diatoms which I believe I can control with waterchanges.

THX C:)

there's some pretty nice tanks out there (and some with clams) not running Zeo

Oh I totally agree, there are several threads I was just looking at on canreef that are truly spectacular and they aren't using zeo or any sort of ULNS system. I just thought I'd try something new. I guess when I see it every day I just don't see the ooh ahh in my tank that I see in others.

Just a thought... isn't the Zeo system supposed to remove 'bad' nutrients and then replace them with other 'good' nutrients?

I had struggled with this question myself. Mostly because if the cyano. After two weeks or increased Bak and dosing coral snow daily, no cyano. You literally can't find a spot. It kept coming and going for a week and then now its been gone for days. Doesn't seem to be coming back.

Other than the cyano, I have been thrilled with ZEO. I did for a while think I may start VSV dosing instead of ZEO but don't like the fact that its less controlled than ZEO.

I guess the only other problem I have with ZEO is that they will not tell you WHAT your dosing. But I have just listened to what I was told on the ZEO forum and its worked nicely. Nitrates are still around 10-15 but slowly dropping. I don't think nitrates harm much anyways...its phosphates you have to worry about with sps.

Good luck figuring it out. IMO you should stick with it but maybe rethink the dosing schedule. I would post on the zeo forum and see what they say.

What does the zeovit forum say about your nitrate level?

Absolutely. ZEO is just another way to get the same results you can with more "traditional" methods. IMO, ZEO tanks really are nothing that can't be achieved through other methods. Having said that, I think for the average hobbyist ZEO makes that beautiful, colorful sps tank more attainable. Especially for someone like me who hasn't had the best of luck with sps tanks in the past.

I had mentioned on RC that I had a green slimer that was brown for the three months I had it prior to starting ZEO and after two weeks on ZEO, it was bright green. I got a few responses along the lines of "well you shouldn't need ZEO to make a green slimer, green" or "then your not taking good care of your tank if you need ZEO to make your corals nice"...I found some of the comments really funny. There are a lot of reefers who seem to really dislike ZEO or see it as some kind of cheating :D

Mine?

Just that it will take up to 6 months to reach 0 but will get there. They did say to be careful how low I go though.

I started with a high bioload, so it takes a while to get it down.

Actually today after transferring the tank to the new one, I tested my nitrates at 5. But that is like a 50% water change since the tank is almost double the size.

They readjusted my regimen and told me to post back in 2 weeks. The numbers were pretty much the same and they didn't have much else to say it seemed so I just forged on.

GSP, that dosing coralsnow with the bak did nothing for me. Didn't even make a dent in the cyano, I was pretty disappointed.


I agree, I guess like everything tho there are the lovers and the haters. I think maybe if they explained what each product was based on or something, maybe they'd like it more? Who knows? I suppose to a certain extent when you think about it, starving something to the brink of death and then feeding it only a little at a time to make it look better is kind of uncool.

come over to the dark side. i mean bright side.

Whats over there? Guys breathing heavily into plastic beer cups? :razz:

I hate zeo. Let me explain. I started zeo in december and everything was fine for the first couple weeks and then my montis started dieing and then my acros started to brown out. Not all of them though just most of my nice ones. I followed the guide but misinterpreted it I guess. I started with about 60% of the zeolites as suggested for starting out and ran it on the 3hr on/off cycle, also as suggested in the zeoguide. Nothing was stated to dose less so I dosed as per a nutrient rich tank starting out. That was apparently my problem. The dosing seems to be directly linked to how much zeolites used and not necessarily water volume. Anyways, I tried to correct the problem but still I lost about half my corals and I'm not very pleased at all. I always have considered myself to be very diligent in following directions and that's what I did. I followed the zeoguide almost to the letter so I think it needs to be added to, to include more variables especially when starting out on it, as this is the most crucial(and dangerous)time.

I likme zeo but it is easy to tire of it. I ran it for about 6 months at the beginning of 2008 and loved it.. then over the summer as every but the tank took more importance in my life I got off of it.

I started up again almost two months ago and I am enjoying it again.

It's just a commitment to keep up with the routine but I figure since we look at our tanks at least once a day it does not take much effort to put a couple drops of this and a couple drops of that in at the same time.

I agree, at first I hated the dosing routine but once I got used to it its really quite easy and takes no time at all. Its just a pain in the arse that the bak and CV have to be kept in the fridge, I always forget about those two :razz:

Christy what is your current Zeovit dosing schedule?

It's very strange that you still read nitrates

The new ones don't have to be kept in the fridge...

Wow sorry to hear that, I found zeo kinda fool proof in my experience. I even have a nice brown acro start to turn greenish yellow and purple...i'm a bit overstocked as well...i think the key is to ask on the zeo forum rather than following the guide. the guide is to generic...the guys on the zeo forums help me out and what they said did no match what the guide said. All in all my corals look great now, but whether it is zeo or dilligence in maintaining my aquarium now....who knows.

I know! I'm completely baffled.

Ok so currently they have me on

Start2 0.25ml 2x's/day daily
Bak 4 drops 3x week
SP 4 drops 3x week
Coral snow 2ml 2x week
LPSAA 1-2ml daily (I just eyeball it in the cap)
PIF 2 drops daily
CV 2 drops 3x week

Wow man! You beat me to it! I was going to say exactly that :nod:.

The variables come from posting and asking questions on Zeovit.com. I totally agree that the guide is too generic. Some of my dosing regimin was not what the guide said to do. There are basically two gurus on there who eat, sleep and breathe Zeovit. They'll help with adjusting dosages based on the system information provided to them. They both have something like 15,000 posts each,...in how many years? Not many. Don't know how they find the time, but they do. As far as I can tell, they are basically two hobbyists who care about other hobbyists. The site is not run by KZ and I do not believe they are affiliated with them at all (could be wrong). These guys have run Zeo and gone through all the growing pains and are more than willing to pass their knowledge on. The site has a sticky called "Tell Us About Your Tank", or something like that, asking all kinds of detail about the system. Do a copy paste of that and fill in the answers to the questions and start a thread specific to your tank. And repost it updated every 4 weeks or so. I suspect over a period of 6 months or, things get so one can just cruise with the dosing and not have to worry about adjustments and relying on those guys so much anymore. Takes a bit of time, but worth it in the long run, IMO.

I started Zeo 3 months ago, with almost zero problems so far. My NO3 is down and continuing to fall. My coral colours are way improved. My tanks have never looked better. The only thing I can't figure out is the high PO4 I have. Will be posting an update to try to get an answer on that soon.

On the advice of my LFS, I started posting on Zeovit.com right from the get go, and I think this was key to my avoiding any problems.

Edit: On the other hand, this all does not explain why christy is having problems. Obviously she's talking to them. ...Christy, did you do that "Tell us about your tank" thing, providing them detail?

Cheers :yo:

With all due respect to the guru's on the zeo forum, I think even with the help of some of those people it's still up to trial and error with your own tank. It's hard to make a good dosing regime by just looking at a few stats about water volume and a few test results.

When I ran zeo the first time my tank was amazing, I loved zeo as the water was so clear. Now running the second time I am not having the same great results and I was following the exact same dosing plan I did before. I have been adjusting my dosing a bit on my own.

Yes this is a good point as well, I asked on the forum and then afterwords adjusted according to how my tank ran. I mostly want their input as to what they think i would need, but every good reefer tailors what they do to their tanks specifically to THEIR tanks...even two tanks in the same house will be completely different, unless they are plumbed in. I am still not sold on whether or not it is the zeo or due dilligence on my part that is makig my tank look good. I am going to start dosing some zeospur and will find out. :)

From my limited experience with zeo I bet if you stop the amino dosing you'll notice a drop :)

Well, it's a bit more than just water volume and test results that they ask, but yes, this is a good point. No two tanks are the same and trial and error certainly might come into play. I guess I got lucky. I should also mention that, IME I did not follow the guru's advice exactly. I dosed, and continue to do so, some other additives over and above the "starting" regime that they "prescribed". The decision to dose the additional additives during start-up was based on discussions with my LFS. Piece meal bits of info from here and there. One of the things that makes this message board great.

In your case, I'm wondering....nothing changed in between?

I do also run kent de-nitrate Always have, always will nitrates never go above 0...ever

Sadly nitrates were 20 before I started with the amino dosing. I've started using nitrate destroyer to see if I can lower it with that.

Oh :(

Good Luck though :) If you have a cannister try the de-nitrate...it does work...a hassle but it works :)

Yes,same here, i mean i say big NO to Zeo, almost identical to the above , i had an established tank and after Zeo i lost $450 worth of SPS in 4 days.:cry:

I am trying to figure out two things... whey would anybody dose Zeo? I can not find what they put in the product and can't find anything aside from marketing literature when it comes to the product. Yes- lots of anecdotal “my tank is much better with Zeo than without” statements- but very little scientific. As to the idea that they grow faster- is that really a positive side effect? From what I recall reading SPS in home aquariums grow much more porous, light weight and brittle than their counterparts on a reef and encouraging faster growth does not necessarily equate to “better” corals, does it? Does anybody have any links to anything scientific and hopefully peer reviewed? It strikes me that for a company that could be bottling water with iodine in it and selling it for a staggering amount they must do some research.

It would appear that you have put little effort into your search for information o Zeovit. There is a ton of Scientific information out there. Zeovit or for that matter any bacteria based system is built on nutrient reduction not coral growth.

It may be a snake oil but it works. I've never really dug into the details of exactly what it is but based on the results I have seen online, in person with others tanks, and most importantly with my own it really is a miracle "drug"

I can say that right now it has eliminated all my nusiance algae... I have not had to wipe green film algae off my glass in two weeks!

I bet one can find at least a dozen posts by me stating that Zeo is not required, a waste of time, money, etc.
But, I figured I'd put my money where my mouth is, and took my LFS up on a great deal.
Within 2 weeks I noticed colors that I've never been able to get in my previous 9 years of keeping SPS. I did not get an increase in growth, I agree that too fast is not good, and I've developed patience over the years :)
Overall, I'm impressed with Zeo and will continue to use it.

Now if only you will repent on the NEED for MH all will be well in the world LOL! :razz::lol::mrgreen:

Greg, you NEED MH. Its true.

LOL, great.. now the guys in the offices beside me are wondering why I burst into laughter! :redface: :mrgreen:

There is a real misconception out there that the "ZEOvit system" is an end all, cure all, my tank will be amazing it's going to be so easy now product. Id never recommend ZEO to a noobie or someone who lacks the interest in testing water params religiously.

What people don't realize is how stable your tank must be to even start a full blown zeo regiment. People tend to just listen to the LFS employee and don't research the system for themselves and end up with terrible results (sometimes system crashes) and feel they have wasted their money.

IMHO the ZEOvit system is not a way to "cheat" to get a great tank. It is a way for people to further progress their already great tanks.

I tend to agree, a way to get the final 10% out of your tank for the more experienced reefkeeper. That being said, the nicest tanks I have ever seen in person have not run zeo.

Agreed.