fish collection
 

lately I've kinda been feeling bad that fish that we buy come out of the ocean.

I know that we are getting better, but still. i always think about how much room the fish had to swim in before.

i know its part of the hobby, and im just kinda venting, but im just wondering how others feel about this, and if anyone has any info that would maybe make me feel a bit better?

Just think by keeping fish in you tank you a saving them from the posibillity of being attacked and killed by pretators. Atleast in the tank they will always get a good meal! In the end though I enjoy looking at any tank and everything in there gets the best care I can give them, so that makes me feel good about my collection.

true, but let us focus on the ocean inhabitants as a whole. say you "save" (arguably) an anthias. what about the predator that would have eaten this anthias when it got old an tired? you just deprived another fish of a meal which really negates your argument. and then think about how many fish had to die before yours reached your tank and survived (depending on mortality during collection, shipping, handling, and storage in the store). Ive actually wondered... just how many live animals die during transit alone due to incompetence by delivery companies? I ask you to think about it because, in all honesty, i don't want to. I admit this hobby is my guilty vice (or at least one of them) and I have no reason or excuse to justify it. they're just pretty and i like watching them and knowing i am doing my best to care for them. :)

edit: when buying, I do try to buy livestock from other reefers rather than from a store where i know it just came out of the ocean... for the environment's sake, as well as the peace of mind that livestock from an established system is less likely to die or bring in weird parasites into my tank.

Let's face it, by keeping an aquarium we aren't doing any service to the fish in the ocean. Might mitigate it by saying we're developing an appreciate of the wild in our children (and they can just figure their father is a hypocrite).

Try to buy species that are available captive bred (clowns, some cardinals etc.) and refuse to buy any wild caught species that are available captive bred, and buy from others in the hobby.

I have a couple wild caught, but I try to stick with captive bred.

Good points brought up. I did not think about the predator who lost it's meal because it was scooped up by the aquarium trade.
I as well try to buy my corals and fish from fellow reefers where possible, mainly due to my belief that tank bred fish, established fish as well as corals fragged from others tend to have adapted to the aquarium life better and are hardier.
This is always going to be a tough question for all of us in the hobby to answer.

I think most people here know how I feel about this ;)

Its something that I think most people like to keep out of mind. This is a very, very selfish hobby and extremely damaging to the oceans that are destroyed by collectors. But as I have said so many times, I know this, it disturbs me, saddens me but apparently I am still selfish enough to continue to do it. I try not to be hypocritical about it but I catch myself all the time :)

The thing is, if you see as I have, the carnage left behind by many collectors overseas, you will have a whole new outlook on where your fish have come from and what they have been through. Apparently 2/3 of the hobbies fish come from the Philippines and an estimated 3/4 of those are cyanide caught :(

I think obviously something needs to be done on the collection side of things. Regulations need to be enforced and made tougher. Wholesalers need to care more. Retailers need to care more. And we all need to care more. Don't buy species that have low survival rates...we all know what species these are but I see them in LFS all the time and they sell each time.

I think another big problem is when people start in this hobby, they often kill many fish before figuring things out. I know I did. This needs to stop somehow. LFS need to be able to say no to people but of course LFS owners are not going to allow their employees to do this...

And it goes on and on. Its a business and stores need to make money but I think if you are going to get into this business, part of the responsibility you have is to care...or perhaps you should open a Clothing shop where you can just think money alone with no regard to where your product is going.

you guys have helped me and i feel much better :)

i will definitely try my hardest to get at least my clown pair tank raised.

since i first researching saltwater i've wanted to breed saltwater fish,so who knows, maybe you Calgarians will have a local breeder in a few years. we'll see

well said justin. the entire hobby needs major reconstruction, starting with collection methods and mortality reduction before the livestock even hits the tank. we have to stop considering live animal trades the same as any other merchandise... the fact that these are living breathing animals needs to be taken into consideration. we continue doing the same old crap, our hobby will be in serious danger of being shut down by legislation. in fact, if we continue what we're doing, im sad to say that i think import *should* be shut down by legislation.

i also agree that if we go one like we are, we need to be shut down,
or atleast cut fish catching in half.

like if the gov't gave us about a year to prepare for breeding fish, i think it could work.

shops would lose alot of money, but we kinda brang it upon ourselves.

Biggest problem is many species we have no idea how they even breed or to sex them.

Both the pet and food fisheries do damage and both need to be slowed if you ask me. I grew up in an area with alot of Tuna at one point, and other fish.

Due to over fishing the fishery is gone, the tuna is gone, as are many species of sharks and other fish who relied on the tuna.



Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act HR 669 could cause a major hit to the pet and aquarium trade. Similar bills have failed in the past, but eventually one will get through. Its only a matter of time.

http://www.pijac.org/files/public/US_H_669_1.pdf

I was actually going to search for this and bring this up. It really is just a matter of time before collection is slowed right down and then one day shut down. May not be in my lifetime but it will happen. As these species become endangered, it has to happen and will.

But I do agree that its only a matter of time before these bills get passed. I would be willing to bet it starts in Hawaii where they have already begun to limit collection (even more than in the past) and monitor it very closely. It could be just a matter of time before Yellow tangs are over $100 each. I feel it is about time they cost that because it may slow down how many are sold to inappropriate homes and die within weeks. Its sad but people care more about a $100 fish than a $30 fish.

thats a great point GSP, and i think that a rise in prices would defiantly help.

like look at the amount of people who have gem tangs, compared to the amount of people with clownfish.

one thing is, THANK GOD FOR FRAGS. I swear calgary could run on frags alone if every hobbyist was on a forum or selling things to their LFS.

I myself find it kind of hard to talk about this stuff (or make up my mind really) because i work at a LFS, but i also want to be a marine biologist when i grow up. What would i do without any fish to study, and in a way it would be my fault if their weren't any fish.

One thing is latley i've realised a real increase in quality of shipping. Latley at the store we have not been have any DOAs or many deaths whatsoever, so thats good.

Basicaly, it all comes down to us. We are the ones creating demand for these fish, and we are the ones who should be saying "i think i'll stock this tank with 4 fish instead of 7" or
"i think i want captive bread fish"

I personally think that it's better to give only a few fish alot of elbow room, then alot of fish barley any room at all.

This is only 1 species but it gives an idea.

In Hawaii in one heavily fished site the Potters Angel numbers are on average 42% less vs the protected areas, but the good news is once the areas get protected this species make a comeback quickly.

That was in FAMA April 2009.

Take Mandarin Dragonets, in 2000 in Batasan Island it was revealed they had an export rate of 1,800-2,400 per month, with 70-75% being males and that's not including the mortality which the local collectors said was high.

FAMA April 2009

They have an interesting article on the impact the hobby has had one some species.

Do you eat fish, chicken, beef or are you a vegetarian?

I eat chicken, but not fish or beef and sometimes turkey.

But I fail to see how this is related to the damage being caused by over fishing from both the pet and food trades.

Last I checked Chicken, beef, pork etc were raised on farms specifically for food.

Just because something is raised on a farm, or farmed for our use, does not mean there is no environmental or other impact. Look at the controversy over salmon farming, avian flu outbreaks on poultry farms, the impact high intensity beef or pork production has. Our hobby in the end is not much different. We're only human and that's what we do. Now I'm really on a downer.... need to cheer up by checking my tank.