Myka vs Valonia Round 672
 

I found a teeny tiny Kole tang today (for an outrageous price), so I bought him. I have been looking for a tiny Tang for my tank. I have tried everything else, and Tangs seem pretty fool-proof in regards to algae eating. He is picking at the rocks A LOT. So I have my hopes up! As you can tell he has a lot of work to do!

See what the tang police think of this one... *snicker* Tang police aren't bad on here, but I sure wouldn't post this on Reef Central! :eek:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4.../Nov242008.jpg

:shocked!::shocked!: OMG thats a serious Valonia problem

Two years of battle too!! I must admit I haven't "pruned" it for 6 weeks. :o I'm going to do a big waterchange, and major pruning tomorrow. Just prepping the saltwater now.

Do you syphon them out making sure that the contents dont escape into the tank? I have a few in my tank but i am very careful with them and dont let them get too big. So far i seem to be winning the battle.

nice tang. I dont have much valonia problem. I find one every once in a while tho. Im seeing what I think is Calurpa?

How do you think one of them tangs would fare with a Longnose butterfly???

Go
 

How big is your tank? I was really hoping to get a tang in mine ( it's only a 40 gal ) at least for a while since they take so long to grow up, I figured in the future I'd have to give him away......or upgrade!
________
ipad games

That right there is some SPECTACULAR bubble algae!! I'm starting to get a lot of it too but I keep putting off dealing with it till I move the rock to the new tank and the urchin from my 27g has a look-see ....hopefully he'll take a liking to it. Nice tang, super cute at that size!

Kole tangs are film algae eaters/detrivores and probably wont touch the valonia, dont mean to burst your bubble.

I was going to say the same thing but I know how long Myka's been fighting valonia and I hate disappointing people so I clicked the back button instead of submit :lol:

My tank is a 33g. Tangs can grow real fast. I'm one of the last people in the freakin world that would suggest someone buy a "temporary" fish for their tank. I just don't believe in it. BUT, I have been battling this Valonia for a VERY long time, and I have tried pretty much everything else. So I bought this fish not because I wanted a pretty little cute Tang, but because I need him to do a specific job after which I will find him a permanent home somewhere suitable. If he eats all my Valonia he will grow like a bad weed, so I don't expect to have him very long.

There is no Caulerpa in the tank. It's almost all Valonia. I have very little algae otherwise. I have no idea about their compatibility with Butterflies. Never had a Butterfly.

If he doesn't eat the Valonia he better decide on carpet surfing suicide! He's the only teeny little tang i've seen in a long time. Other than Hippo Tangs, but they are ich magnets. They had a teeny Yellow Tang, but he was in their LPS tank, and wasn't for sale (couldn't catch him). I don't know much about Tangs, but I was told to just "get a Tang, it will eat the algae". So I picked exactly the wrong specie or what??? :eek: Doing a quick Google I see Kole Tang listed as a Bubble algae eater often though...?

Seriously though, none of the other "tried and true" battle methods have worked yet. I even cooked the rock for a few months, and the Valonia came back. I prune it on every waterchange, which I actually did religiously for quite awhile. I haven't been able to find any Emerald Crabs, but apparently they are very hit or miss as to whether they will touch the Valonia or not. The tank is stable as heck, it's 2 years old now. I run 2 cups of HC GFO in a PhosBan reactor, which I change every 6-8 weeks. Phosphate and nitrate are undetectable on Salifert test kits (been this way for over a year). The fish get rinsed Mysis 2-3x a week. My RO/DI is 0 ppm tds (it's at 1ppm today actually, so time to replace some filters).

My only remaining idea is to up the Kelvin of my bulbs. I currently run Giesemann Midday (6000K) and Giesemann True Actinic 1:1. I'm going to try bluing the tank out, and see if that does anything. It's really just an experimental idea as I know algaes thrive from the red in the light spectrum, so if I up the Kelvin I will lower the red, hence it should make a difference. New bulbs will be in this week I think...

Well, if he starts eating the valonia (which I've seen mentioned in a few places that they do?) and once hes done with your tank, he's coming to stay in my new tank! (75g, 100lbs of rock covered in valonia too :redface:)

He'll get too big for your 75g, but he'd like your 120g! ;)

Drock is right, the kole tang requires film algae as a major part of its diet.
You have to keep one side of the glass 'unclean' and it will suck the film algae on it all day.
It is also a good idea to pile a bunch of those smooth 1.5-2 inch stones which will also be covered with film algae.
I have never seen any tang I have every kept eat valonia nor have I read anything that would suggest that. Where did you get that info?
It is not a good idea to buy a tiny fish which will outgrow its tank sooner than you think even though you have the present intent to upgrade later.

There have been many suggestions on this board by some of the more experienced reefers to try a Tang on the Valonia. A quick Google search suggests Tangs as well.

I have absolutely no plans of upgrading the tank. One of two things will happen; he will eat the Valonia, it will run out, and he will need a new home; or he won't eat the Valonia and he will need a new home. ;) Read the first paragraph of the last post on the first page. :) Honestly, he has a better chance of living to a ripe old healthy age through making a pit stop at my tank than he did hanging out at the LFS. The LFS sold him to me knowing full well I had a 33g tank. I won't sell him on to someone who has a tank that's too small for him. He will get a handpicked home after me, so he's lucky to be in my tank for now. :lol:

Mine does and he and the foxface play football with the large loose ones

I was meaning caulpera in my tank, not yours

This stuff is nasty, but one thing I can tell you is that if you keep trimming it or popping those they just spread even more. You must remove these without popping them. In my past 10 gal I had like 3 of them, I carefully took out that piece of rock, over to the sink I went and with a knife I carefully got underneith them and they came off fully intact like bubbles and did not burst. I never had anymore from that time on and it was 4 years from that time.

Hate to tell you this but Tangs will not touch this stuff, they look for soft algae they can pick off the rocks. He is cute though, enjoy him and if you don't have alot of the algae he would normally eat do make sure you supplement him with some seaweed sheets, they love these and are very good for them. You can pick them up cheaper at the health food stores than the pets stores, aslo called Nori . They come in red, green or brown sheets and Tangs will just love you for this along with regular fish foods.

Hope this helps and you can get this under control, enjoy your new fishy too I love tangs.....:biggrin:

Amy

Trying to take them off without popping them will not work in Myka's case she has way to many.
I would say changing your bulb color to more blue will definitely help. Algae definitely does not grow as well under the higher K range.

In addition, even though your phos are undectable, most likely the PO4 is being absorbed by the valonia first, valonia is excellent at scavenging PO4 in low nutrient systems. Honestly I would use a combination of manual removal for large ones in a separate container and a lot of emerald crabs for the small ones.

Hey Myka,

I will keep my eye's out for an Emerald crab for you...Complete pet gets them in periodically.

what kind of Hermit crabs and snails do you have in your tank? I use blue leg, common, left handed and blue knuckle hermits and the valonia grows in one or two spots but is eaten within a week of me seeing it. also i have nerite snails and turbos

Ya, I'm quite aware of the phosphate reading being pretty much useless. My tank is fairly low nutrient, has been from day 1. I don't have any other nuisance algaes. Coralline algae has never really grown much in my tank. My rocks are mostly white. I'm hoping the higher Kelvin lighting may help with this as well. It doesn't have enough food in it for even a Peppermint or Cleaner shrimp to survive long-term. Nutrients are well addressed in my tank. The only other thing I could do is upgrade the skimmer. Current just have a Remora.

I've been looking for Emerald Crabs for probably 6 months, and haven't been able to locate any. They seem to be REALLY hit or miss though as to whether they will eat Valonia (do a search for the poll I made). Some people say hermit eat Valonia, but most people say they only eat hair algae. As a rule, I don't keep crabs of any kind in my tanks because I like my snails more. ;)

So here's what's in the tank (and how long):

1 True Perc (1.5 years)
2 Bangaii Cardinals (1 year)
1 Kole Tang (1 day)

3 Astrea coelata (almost 2 years; original snails, never lost one)
1 Black Cerith (almost 2 years; original snail, had 3 of them)
3 Nassarius (1.5 years)
2 Ring Cowries (1+ year)
1 Brittle star (1+ year)
1 Margarita (6-8 months)

Critters that have died (and how long they lived). They weren't all in there at the same time:

1 Peppermint shrimp (1 year)
1 Orange Lip Conch (~8 months)
3 Ring Cowries (<1 month)
2 Black Cerith (6 months, and 1 year)
8-10 Nassarius (3-6 months). 3-4 were eaten by a Hermit crab I had, so the hermit was banned.
4 Margaritas (1 week-6 months). They fall on their backs, and die.

Thats what's happened to all my margarita's I had a bunch, 10 I think. Now I dunno, 2? I would try to attach the ones I seen on their backs to the glass, but cant catch them all I guess.

The Brittle star, why don't you like them? I'm going to l;ook for a Conch, like your reccomendation in my Algae thread. But allways keeping eyes open for better stand stirrers to get rid of the junk.

Hey Myka, after reading that you are using a 6000k bulb, my immediate thought is that the bulb is probably one of the culprits. I have a 6000k bulb in my fuge and bubble algae is always present (I think it would be a more serious problem if I removed all the cheato). I don't have any bubble algae in my DT where I use a much higher K bulb.

If your looking for a cheap skimmer improvement, instead of an upgrade. Use a stronger pump. I have a Mag5 hooked to my Remora and the performance increase was rather impressive.


HTH

Kevin

[quote=Myka;362899]Ya, I'm quite aware of the phosphate reading being pretty much useless. My tank is fairly low nutrient, has been from day 1. I don't have any other nuisance algaes. Coralline algae has never really grown much in my tank. My rocks are mostly white. I'm hoping the higher Kelvin lighting may help with this as well.


How is your Cal and Dkh readings at? For Coraline to grow you have to have a bit of it in your tank already, if not you need to get a bit of it in there first.

I flip my Margaritas over if I see them, but they don't have to be on their backs very long to die. It's funny, my Astreas can be on their back for days and still survive. They aren't the usual type of Astrea though.

Ya, the Conch didn't make it in my tank. Since he did survive so long I assume he starved. My tank was just too small for him. :(

I don't like brittle stars because they creep me out!! No other reason.

Hey Kevin, thanks for posting. That's good to know about the Kelvin making a difference in your tank. Albeit we all know that sometimes "things" don't follow the rules. I am thinking that it should make a difference though.

I have a cracked Remora Pro laying around that has a Mag 5 on it. I have been meaning to put it on my Remora, and haven't gotten around to it yet...but it's so big and ugly!!! :lol:

Calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium are spot on since the very beginning. My live rock came with coralline on it, and there had always been some coralline in the tank, it just doesn't grow much. The rocks are mostly white.

Calcium 415-425 ppm
Alkalinity 8-10 dKH
Magnesium 1325-1375 ppm

I would say add some scarlet hermits, like 5 or so and some blue legs. Whether or not you like them should be balanced against how much you hate the valonia :P

Trying hermits will be the VERY last thing I do. I will try out this Tang first (he's seeming promising right now...he bites the Valonia a lot). Plus I will have new bulbs coming at the end of the month. I will try to find an Emerald Crab or two as well. If none of that works...then I will try a few hermits, but I don't think they will work.

Believe me I'm not exactly the one who follows the 'rules' when it comes to reef keeping. But when things start to go sideways I stray back more to the rules. After battling Algae in my tank, I came across this article Anthony Calfo.

"Most desirable aquatic plants, corals and algae fare best in light within the range of 6500 to 10,000 Kelvin. Undesirable algae and very shallow species are supported by warmer colors (below 6500K). Many lamps are known to stray toward this lower end of the Kelvin scale as they age, and may be evidenced by an increase in nuisance algae growth in the aquarium."

After swapping to higher K bulbs my DT was back to normal (well sort of :wink:).


Here is the link to the full article
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanopies.htm


I actually siliconed my Mag 5 up and have it running the remora outside the tank. That way I don't have to see the ugly thing and it keeps the unwanted heat out of the tank. If you have space behind the tank, it might be worth looking into.

I agree with you on the hermits by the way. I'd only try them as a last resort too.

Good luck,

Kevin

Thanks for the link! I have known about the lower Kelvin increasing algaes, but I always figured I could work around it because my corals like the lower Kelvin. Time to throw in the towl on that one. :lol:

Good idea on the Mag 5. Got a pic? Did you just silicone some tubing or something?

sorry no pic... I can try and get one when I get home, but I don't think it will show up very well. I just used the hosing you can buy for the Fluval 304. It fits on the the remora perfectly.

FWIW .. I am dealing with a TERRIBLE valonia infestation in my 20g right now. What seems to have stemmed the tide is an introduction of 3 or 4 emerald crabs and a green urchin. I have a green urchin in another tank and that tank is valonia free (although it has hermits so I wasn't 100% on whether it was urchin or combination urchin/hermits to thank for that).

Anyhow, about 6 weeks on, I'm noticing significantly less valonia. The bigger ones don't go away but I am able to remove those manually (or the urchin uses them to decorate himself).

I'm not 100% sure of the latin id on the urchin but this has been one of my favourite algae controlling purchases I've ever made (so much so that I now have 2. :lol:). He does wonders for filamentous algae too. Not sure if he'd go after caulerpa too, but I should see if I can find a caulerpa infested rock that I could try an experiment on.

Anyhow since I can't give you an id to help you if you want to find one, here's a picture:
http://members.shaw.ca/hobiesailor/a...reenurchin.jpg

If you see one of these, try it. Only thing as a decorator urchin, be prepared to have to glue down EVERYTHING in your tank that you don't want rearranged. Zoanthid frags are a favourite...

PS. I'm also eating my words from the past that I've never had emerald crabs deal with valonia. I do have them now and they are indeed doing their job (I can see them). The problem is that one crab is probably only good for removing so many valonias in a time period .. and so if the valonia can replace themselves faster than the crab can eat them, you have a problem. With the case of my 20g, it seemed that I needed a good 3 or 4 before the tide was turned.

Your coraline will do better under the higher K as well.
I have algae (hair) in my main tank, but nothing in my fuge. (had to take all the algae eater out)
Same K bulbs but one is a DE and one is a SE. Par is much higher on the DE almost 3x so that can contribute as well. I have always found it strange that I don't have any algae under the SE bulb and so much under my DE at least it is just on my Koralines and frag rack.

I think magaritas are actually supposed to be kept in cooler temps so they don't live as long in our setups

Ah ok. I was thinking you hard plumbed it with PVC.

Worse than mine?!?! :eek: Now that you say that, someone(s?) did mention an urchin before. I forgot about that. I wasn't expecting to need so many Emerald Crabs either!

Ya, they are temperate. I asked for 5 Nassarius, and the person came back with 5 Margaritas. I took them anyway as they didn't actually have any Nassarius. Margaritas are wonderful algae eaters, but they sure don't last long in the high temps.

[quote=Myka;362968]Ah ok. I was thinking you hard plumbed it with PVC.

I run a Mag 3 with mine same dimensions as the Mag 5. I just used some 3/4" hose fits on both well. Just slip it over the treads of the mag with a hose clamp.

I'm actually not sure if mine's a Mag 3 or 5...the sticker is worn off. It has all the connections from being on a Remora Pro, so it looks like I can just slip it on there.

I have changed so much in the tank in the last week that it will be very difficult to determine which changes are making a difference and which aren't. I changed the lighting from a Giesemann 6000K and Giesemann True Actinic to an Aqua Science 17,500K and a Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple. I'm waiting for a new KZ bulb though because it arrived broken. The AS 17,500K is waaaaaaaaay bluer than I was expecting. Since it has such a high PAR I was expecting it to run whiter than the 17,500K suggests. It's a lot bluer than the Hagen GLO 18,000K that I originally purchased with my T5 unit., and it's actually bluer than the Giesemann True Actinic, although that bulb is a little over a year old now. Even though the light is much bluer than I prefer it sure makes the corals look nice, and if it help get rid of the Valonia, then I might learn to like it a lot more!

I also added two Emerald Crabs. Plus the Kole Tang. Oh and for the record, the Kole Tang is DEFINATELY eating the Valonia. I can go in there at any time and observe it. It also looks like at least one Emerald crab is taking a liking.

It's a Mag 3 Myka.

I figured so, thanks for clarifying! I'm finally hooking it up today onto my Remora. Trying to hide it all behind my rocks...