12000k xenon car lights
 

Has anyone ever actually tried growing sps with these?,perhaps with a uv glass filter. I've researched countless threads but never found anyone who has actually tried. I even found a dimable set to help deal with intensity issues. Any thoughts or experiences would be greatlly apreciated.

find someone with a par meter to check them out mabey

Anyone out there with a meter and a car that has H.I.D lights 10000k or higher lol? There are ALOT of people online looking for an answer to this question.

Very cool idea. I'm interested to see how this turns out. 12 volt fish lights:lol:

Upon research I've found 20w of xenon equates to about 120 lumens par with cp and t5. I've found a 110v 5 bulb model 70w per bulb about 1500 lumen available 6000k-18000k now I'm off to see how many lumen a 125w mh produces lol

lumens and par are not quite the same for corals

i dont know why you would want 12V lights, you would lose efficiency as the power supply would lose efficiency as well as the efficiency of the lights and you would need larger wire guage as lower voltage draws more current for given watts.

Ok here we go a 200w hm puts out 20000-30000 lumen,a 25w t5 produces 2000-3000 lumen not looking so good for xenon hdi but i'll keep checking

In case you missed it I found a 110v model not 12v i've found a house variety for 60$ 5 bulb unit,emailed manufacturer who says bulbs available in the kelvin range im after though they cost extra. The reason im pursuing the xenon h.i.d is its suitability for a nano reef because;less heat,less size,1/3cost to buy and cheaper to run than halide and the car variety are water proof. Seems too good to be true so.......

Im watching a post here where a fella plans to use the car variety on a 5.5g nano.....but he's taking forever to update lol

he is taking forever to update! i have been waiting to see how that light works aswell.

Lighting efficiency has a lot more to do with what goes on inside the actual bulb. LEDs are low voltage DC devices too and they are more efficient at producing light than fluorescent fixtures, MH or bulbs with filaments. Not sure of the principle behind xenon, sounds like a gas type deal like neon or fluorescent. I do know xenon arc bulbs are used in high intensity searchlights for aircraft and they can burn a hole through concrete if left shining in one spot for any length of time. Most bulbs still produce more heat than light with the current they use. That's where LEDs are a little ahead of the game. I suspect that if xenon was a viable technology for aquarium lighting, some intrepid engineer/company would have designed a fixture by now.

Lol,they do have xenon lights for fishkeeping. Xenon is used in both halide and sodium lights in fact halides and sodiums are h.i.d lights. Im no expert in lighting hence this thread but the physics are the same,the kelvin rating is the same even the quartz sheild is the same. The xenon h.i.d however is available in as low as 20w making it ideal for a nano. In fact the bio orb uses a xenon bulb for growing but it is in the 6000k range

Neato. So the question still is why hasn't some marketing genius come up with a low voltage xenon solution for the nano market? Not enough sales potential maybe?

Ok my bad a 35w xenon car bulb produces 4200 lumen I know theres other factors at work such as wavelength,but as far as i know a lumen is a measure of visible light which would make a 1''35w xenon about as visblly bright as a equally watted t5...........and my search continues

I'll through a little info here from what I know. First off HID stands for High Intensity Discharge and refers to metal halides, halogens, mercury vapor, high pressure sodium and so on. The lights you're referring to are very similar to metal halides but use a slightly different gas.

The main problem with this type of lighting is the spectrum, the lumen output means nothing when it comes to corals. The blue color or higher K rating of the bulbs are created from a coating on the bulb, so the true spectrum isn't where you want it. You'll get better color and efficiency from other types of lighting.

In addition I believe metal halides are a cheaper solution and you won't have much luck finding a good reflector for those bulbs. They have their application but I don't think it's in the aquarium.

Ok im confused an xenon bulb is identical to mh but uses slightlly different gasses in the process I know that, but the k rating is a measure of color given off how does the means in which we arive to the k rating change its effectiveness? 10000k is 10000k is it not? upon further research i've found an xenon produces the proper wavelength at 430-470nm So weve got; 10000k+ and 430-470nm what more is left? intensity which is measured in lumen is it not?
Please I'm not arguing here,just food for thought,what do you think?

I have aftermarket HID lighting in my car and truck. One set is 4300k and the other is 6000k. Both sets of bulbs are clear in appearance. But the 6000k has a blue tinge and the 4300k is bright white. I will have to do some research on how they get the light spectrum to change without changing the UV shield color.

For all you pecemists out there,the black sheep project here on canreef is powering a 5.5g with the car variety xenon. The sps he's keeping have beautiful polyp extension his is a new setup so time will tell,but to my eyes anyway it appears to be working very well. Thanks for everyones input

I've done some research on the application of LEDs to aquariums, and this is what I've drawn from my reading related to light in general.

Lumens is a measurement of visible light intensity, meaning it takes into account wavelengths across the entire visible spectrum. This is useful when talking about task and home lighting applications... HOWEVER, PAR or Photosynthetically Active Radiation (related to PUR or Photosynthetically Useful Radiation) is the value that is important here, because this equates to how much of the total light output will actually excite chloroplasts in plants (including symbiotic algae).

So, what we need to know here is how much of the total 4200 lumens that a 30w xenon bulb (*edit* it was pointed out that a xenon bulb is the same as a MH but with xenon, rather than argon, as the starting gas [Thanks dabandit :biggrin:]). This will show us just how useful these lights are in reefkeeping.

I'm not sure if K ratings equate to nanometers, as all discharge-type lighting systems including LED and arc lamps produce 'peaky' light that when analyzed by a spectrometer will show the true wavelengths of light produced. I think that Kelvin is an overall measurement of colour temperature as humans see it, rather than a function of the actual radiant energy produced by a given light source. That being said, a higher K will mean that the general wavelengths of light produced are further into the blue end of the visible light spectrum.

I think that this could be viable, since you would have a hard time finding any manufacturer of 30w MH lighting systems. However, when you start talking about a unit with 150w of xenon lighting (5 bulbs), what's the point? I should think that it would make more sense to go with a readily available and probably less expensive MH setup, where at least you can get some sort of information about those all important PAR values that can help you make good lighting choices.

I'm hoping it does work out well, this could be an excellent application for these lights. Again, I've looked around and even 70w MH lighting systems seem to be almost impossible to find, and I think 70w over a 5.5 would be too much.

asked similiar in this thread

Here was a reply fr hillbillyreefer who tried them:

They are a PITA on a tank. I've got 4 on my 33 gal. You'll need a 10 amp powersupply for each bulb. You'll need to figure out some sort of reflector. The ballasts get really hot and burn out quickly. I think they would be better in a car as the airflow would keep them cool. Not sure how long the lamps themselves last as the ballasts all fried before the bulbs. The light is decent and the bulbs are available in various K ratings. I never did take pics of them when they were running, it's too late now.

Save your money and buy a MH, way less hassle and better life span, in my experience.

Ok I feel these are getting a bad rap so lets go over the pro's and con's;ok people claim too much heat in ballast my guess is their calculations were wrong and the unit isnt being powered right(capactors and resistors) if not put a cpu fan on it,next they claim wrong spectrum...wrong they are allmost identical in every way,next they say they cost too much well...for a nano only 1 bulb is required...motorcycle units cost 89$and bulbs start at 9$ or you could split a car package worth 120$ with a fellow nano reefer the only other equip required is power source which go for 30$+ So then they say what about a reflector or hooking up supply....well if you cant figure that one out you shouldnt be doing diy lighting in the first place. From the research I've done I've found;they are cheaper to buy,run and replace bulbs ,the bulb produces less heat and is smaller and has equal par ratings.

In short if you have a nano 14g- and understand electronics I think it's a great technology that will only get better as more people use it,but I agree if you have a tank over 14g mh is the far better solution........but hey thats just one mans opinion

Not sure where you got that from. The key to any lighting is the bulb. Have you noticed that bulbs for the hobby are more expensive than similar bulbs used for other applications? Even the cheap ebay bulbs aren't much good. I doubt those bulbs will provide the required spectrum over time, at least not in an efficient way.

So you can get a 30W unit for $90 which only included the bulb and ballast and you need to run some inefficient power supply, what about a reflector? Oh right they don't make one. Also you can get a 70W MH bulb and ballast for under a $100 if you know where to look, that way you get more than twice the output and a proven spectrum. Did you know my SPS corals get great polyp extension when the lights are off?

I just don't see any reason in pursuing this, sure if you want a 5.5g but not much of a market there and anything bigger would benefit more from a 70W light.

You're going to have to hook up a PAR meter and measure these lights before you can make any claims.

Are you even reading what I'm typing? I mean really......the info i got was from much research online on one site they showed the par values which is why I mentioned the par value in my previous statement. Go online and look your self at the values;par is higher than mh 70w,10000k+ and wavelength is 430-470nm at 10000k now go check your mh specs,the only place it lacks is in the lumen department which aparently does'nt mean much to corals. There you have it...data....facts..... please show me something to prove otherwise because all I've heard so far is conjecture or one persons failed experience due to faulty wiring PLEASE someone direct me to data that says this cant work,otherwise open your minds!!lol

Link?

Here under ''what is xenon" youll find an article explaining how the xenon uses metal salts (mh) also how it achieves its kelvin rating through burn temp like an mh the xenon with the coatings are 12000k and higher ,the 10000k is entirelly burn temp.

I'll find you those stats may take a while though,sad how you think im lying to you....oh well http://www.delonixradar.com.au/products/hid/xenon.html

You get 404 error on the link....

Heres everything and anything you wanted to know about xenon,here youll find a graph comparing xenon to other lights including the sacred "cree" l.e.d
they explain how xenon is a micro mh that uses different gases for firing.
Check the graph and the paragraph next to it good food for thoughtwww.xevision.com/hid_products.html

Did I mention that last link sells parabolic reflectors for them lol

Just a note, Cree claims efficiencies of around 100 lumens per watt also, depending on chip temperature. http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp7090_xre.asp This is only one of Cree's LED chip products, and there are many other great white LEDs by companies such as Osram (Sylvania) and Lumileds (Phillips).

I'd be curious to see the PAR value of Cree's cool white LED products. I like LEDs for the fact that they are solid state ie: less prone to breakage, and they are rated to last 50 000 hours, though the actual useful life will be less for our purposes. A big detractor from xenon bulbs is the rated 3000 hour life, which is less than both MH and fluorescent... wow, hope the bulbs are cheap!

I'm glad that forums like this exist so that open discussion can make us think of new ideas. If xenon can produce higher PAR values, perhaps we will see the advent of 150w xenon metal halides in the future... though I doubt that the aquarium / horticulture segment of the total metal halide lighting market around the world would be enough for manufacturers to start producing larger xenon bulbs. If indeed the lumen output of these bulbs is lower than our traditional metal halides, I can't see these lights making it as a replacement as they are not fit for the traditional use of HID lighting (task and area lighting) even if the light is superior in terms of plant growth.

I still maintain that this (xenon) is probably the BEST way to light a pico to small nano (less than 10g), at least if you want SPS or other intense light requiring organisms and don't mind changing a bulb more often than usual. I suppose you could use PC, but then you don't get those glitter lines that I so love with MH lit tanks.

Just asked for a link, I never said you're lying but you haven't showed us anything yet except a description of HID lighting. How about a link to those par values you found??

I cant find the par value site yet :( the last link was just to show that a xenon is infact a mh using same burn temp and metal salts,also that last site was mentioning how a xenon produces light more efficientlly than an led by 3% I think it was. That was to put to bed the notion that xenon is less efficient than a traditional mh. I'm sorry I'm in the middle of a move and dont have much more time for research but im sure if you look you can find the par value site....or you could just take my word for it lol The results were this watt for watt the xenon hid has a slightly higher par value than a traditional mh.

My personal thoughts remain that with a little tweaking this technology is perfect for a nano reef 14gal and under where a 70w halide isnt practical. Xenon hid will never replace mh 70w+ because its the same technology just different firing gases that arent needed in a bigger bulb.

I enjoy debates like this,I hope no one takes me negatively just bothers me when people dismiss something without either trying or researching it first.

The fella here powering his 5.5 is happy with the light he claims no heat issues and looking at the pic his tank is glowing something fierce,his corals look happy and have good p.e. As for the comment that your corals have p.e even in the dark...well duh but try keeping them in the dark for a week
or two (the time he's been running this light) and see what happens lol

I'm sure there were skeptics when MH and T5's were first considered for aquarium use as well.

Heres a thought for a reflector being as its a headlight........car salvage yard lol If your thinking maybe voltage is a concern being at the moment they are just car parts,check out the wiring on these l.e.d pico setups people ar loving;buck pucks and tigers and bears oh my lol

Well keep looking cause that's what we or at least what I would be most interested in seeing. I already knew Xenon lights used the same technology as MH. You should be able to find the site in your browser history. It seems a little strange to me that you found the very thing that makes or breaks the use of this lighting and now "you can't find it" :confused:

Perhaps but it's easier not to be skeptical when bulbs are produced for the sole purpose of use in the aquarium hobby.

Arent you friendlly.I've spent a week researching this....think about it b efore you go accusing me of being a liar AGAIN Par value is the percentage of light that reaches the target after disspation via heat and such is it not? Now take a mh bulb and compare how far the light goes to a headlight on a car better yet look directlly into each because your begining to annoy me :)
Through my research I've found what I wanted to know and believe I've provide enough proof that this is a viable technology,if thats not good enough for you thats not my problem try google,then come apologise when your done

Dont forget im talking watt for watt 2x 35w xenon vs 1x70w halide I would only use 1 but I dont think you get 10000k less than 70w with halide.

Anyway im done for today good luck with your search,arent you staff im sure you have acess to a par lux candlewatt thing a ma jobby

Here's a link on nano-reef. The setup looks good on the tank. There is lots of debate on powersupplies etc.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...40575&hl=xenon

IIRC they do put out 4000 + lm, but I'm not going to do the research again.

Now you guys have me wanting to get mine running again. Maybe I'll look into that tonight. More SPS in the tank now and it could use more light. I do like the looks of the xenon.

Yeah I admit I'm the rude one for asking for a simple link to help clarify your blunt statements. PAR, as already stated, is the Photosynthetically Active Radiation which is pretty self explanatory and the beam created by a headlight is a result from the reflector not the bulb.
Just because something makes sense in your head doesn't make it fact and just stating you've done research doesn't give credibility, the most important part of any research project are the references.

Hey hillbilly a guy who's ACTUALLY tried lol,I found a site that claims the 55w version runs the ballast way too hot and 35w is the only way to go,could this be the source of your ballast issues maybe?

Sphelps,thanks for the reminder I wasnt too sure about that,sorry i'm not able to produce links to every site I've visited in the past week,I didnt realise there would be a quiz.....I can see theres no getting through to you so I give up just cant get over you implying im a liar,I dont think I've done anything to warrant that behavior,anyway have a nice life:)

Everyone else I hope you learned something,thanks for tuning into my thread