Calcium Reactors ???
 

I see quite a few reefers talking about calcium reactors. I am unsure as to why I need one ... i realize that we need calcium for our tank to survive ... but is that not why we use additives ? what exactly does the calcium reactor do for us ? do we still need to add to our tank if we use one ? what are the pros and cons of using the calcium reactor ?

They are suppose to add Cal and Alk into the tank at a balanced rate. I find with mine, it keeps up with the Alk but not Cal. Not sure if they are worth the expense. I would imagine the larger tanks benefit from it more that the smaller tanks like yours and mine.

For me it was when the expense of adding two part Calc/alk on a bigger tank justified a calcium reactor. Also being to able to go on vacation without someone having to dose the tank.
There are DIY recipes for 2 part that would bring the cost down and dosers that would automate it.

A calcium reactor works by dissolving what are essentially dead coral skeletons and putting the effluent back into the tank. As a result, it provides provides both Ca, Alk and Mg as well as trace elements.

Here's a Randy Holmes Farley article comparing various methods of Ca/Alk supplementation:
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=3&gl=ca

Here's one of RC's interminable threads with people arguing back and forth about the merits each method. As usual, it was finally closed due to it degenerating into personal attacks:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=7

Randy also has another article which I can't find now comparing the relative costs. The conclusion I believe was that the bigger the tank you have, the more cost efficient a calcium reactor is in the long run. The "tipping point" where a reactor becomes the better deal was around the 125 gallon mark, I think. The costs he calculated were with respect to his two-part method using bulk CaCl, baking soda and MgCl/MgSO4 rather than fancy German dosing pumps with pretty labelled CaCl, baking soda and MgCl/MgSO4 which cost more.

come on guys
Ca reactors look sexy.
So many of my aquatic ignorant friends are ore impressed with my ca reactor than anything in the tank...
They're like, wow, I never knew this stuff was so high tech....lol

you can't impress people with a couple of bottles.....

I think the goal is stability, which is key for coral growth and vitality. Constantly adding additives gets tiresome and expensive. Once you have a tank that can suck up 20ppm of calcium a day you'll understand better. Most people don't have the need for constant addition of Ca and Alk and do well with a simple two part additive method or just frequent water changes.

Now buying additives in bulk and using an automatic dosing system is to me the best method, but this is fairly new technology for us :biggrin:

A calcium reactor is also a good excuse to get a decent controller :mrgreen: .... That's my "excuse"

You also don't have to purchase one, lots of info out there on DIY calcium reactors!

there is a diy job in the classifieds right now with co2 for 150.

How much 2 part additive would it take to cover that cost?

Im not trying to thread hijack but what is the difference between a calcium reactor and a kalk drip? Do they serve the same purpose?

Same end result more or less but different process.

just noticed this, they should keep both up pretty good, out of curosity what is your Mg level. and what are you alk and Ca levels.

Steve

no, different all together with one common element.

Kalk is just Ca and will raise PH. With a Ca reactor you are maintaining both Ca, Alk, and trace elements. Some times they can lower Ph so then you would use Kalk in addition through a kalk reactor to balance it.

the purpose of the reactors weather it be Kalk or Ca is stability, better control with less work. With a Ca reactor you are not dosing once a day and causing swings of levels but you are dosing every second so it is constant. The are a bit of work for the first few days to get them dialed in, but once that is done....

One thing to note, a Ca reactor shouldn't be used to correct bad levels, only to maintain good ones.. before starting the reactor make sure your levels (Ca, Alk, Mg) are good.

Steve

1350ppm. It stays very constant there.

Calcium reactors
 

I just finished about two weeks ago installing my calcium reactor.

They way they work is by bubbling CO2 through the reaction chamber and mixing with water you create carbonic acid driving pH down below 6.9 This dissolved the substate (slowly) releasin perfect trace elements (except iodine). This is fantastic for all stonies, heavy fish loads, Clams, big tanks (where dosing can be expensive).

Then by dripping the effulant back into my sump (about 6" drop) the CO2 De-gasses from and your pH of the effluant pops instantly back up to around 8.3. Depending on your flow rate you can tweek the feed ammount of Ca, KH, and trace elements.

The only thing I found is that there was not an adiquate ammount of Magnesium coming in from the reactor so I still dose with a magnesium suppliment weekly, and Iodine.

Im running a Coralife reactor with a reefkeeper controler. The controler keeps the pH between 6.7 and 6.4. This limits the wastage of CO2 (using a 20lb beverage grade CO2).

Prior to the application of the reactor my clam tank would drop my Calcium from 480 to 230-255ppm in one night. The KH would go from 220-120 in about 9 hours. I was dosing 15ml of purple up twice a day (that's a 300 gallon tank dose) My clam tank is 40 gallons.

This led to a pH swing which my acros did not like.

Now, with the reactor balanced and running my KH is holding exactly at 200ppm (i run a little high), and Calcium at 500ppm (a little high).

I will pop some pictures and post them when I get home today.

Here is a pic of the clams

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/o...lamcluster.jpg
http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/o...AquaScape5.jpg
http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/o...amCluster4.jpg


If you can afford it run with a power controler on a solenoid (co2 supply) it will be well worth it in the long run.

Any questions on sources just message me.

very nice tank

I was just thinking about the Reactor/supliments thing.

I think the key is your needs.

Ie: if you tank has a High demand with a lot of fluctuations, costs, time ect.. then save up and get the reactor.

If you are tight on cash... and suppliments suffice stick with supliments.

If you can afford the inital cost go with the reactor they are easy and reliable (till your controler ph probe packs it in...)

I have 5 reef/salt tanks. 2-95's, 40, 2-nano's. Only the 40 has the reactor. I dose all the other tanks with supliments.

I am strggling in that tank with the blade algae.... Nothing is keeping it under control.

Another noob question....
So the calcium reactor could sit beside the sump being teed into your return pump, or by having another pump in the sump to power the reactor all together.
Or does it sit inside the sump itself?

outside the sump is normal, don't see why you couldn't put one in the sump though.

Steve

Cool thx stir.

yup the reactor sits outside your sump (usually). You don't normally connect it to your sump.

Most come with their own re-circulating pump that pushes the water in the chamber through a side arm where it's mixed with the co2 and back into the reaction chamber.

The feed is usually gravity siphon through airline hose, and same with the return.

Usually connect the reactor chamber to a monitor or a controler that will turn on and off the co2.

Absolutly no way or reason to connect to your main pump. Not like a skimmer. You need the seperation and drip to de-gas.

That is not true. Kalkwasser or calcium hydroxide (chemical term) is a balanced calcium and alkalinity supplement which also has the ability to raise pH.

when I ran just kalk my Ca was good but my alk always dropped. when I added my Ca reactor to the mix all was good.

I ran kalk only for about 3 years and on 2 different tanks, both the same, so where is the balanced part? even RHF uses it in his recipies as only 1/2 of a ballanced additive mix.

Steve

Again I'm sorry but you are wrong. Randy does use kalkwasser but does not use it as only 1/2 of a balanced additive mix.

This is taken from Randy's Article -- How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme

"Limewater (also known by the German term kalkwasser) has been used very successfully by aquarists for a number of years, and it is the system that I use on my tank."

"The calcium ions in the solution obviously supply calcium to the tank, and the hydroxide ions supply alkalinity."

That is all I have time for now but if you don't believe me do some research. You will find that kalkwasser can be used as a balanced additive that supplies calcium and alkalinity.

ok, I think we're getting a little confused, this is from RHF

" In an aquarium with an acceptable pH, there is no concern that the alkalinity provided by limewater is any different from any other carbonate alkalinity supplement. The hydroxide immediately disappears into the bicarbonate/carbonate system. In other words, the amount of hydroxide present in aquarium water is really a function of only pH (regardless of what has been added), and at any pH below 9, it is an insignificant factor in alkalinity tests"

so yes it does add alk, but not relitive to Ca so if you want to raise your Alk but not Ca you can't do it with kalk. and in my case if I wanted to keep my Ca at a NSW level of 380 to 400, but I like an elivated Alk, I needed to run both.

Steve

The Calcium reactor also dissolves the other elements locked up in the coral. This includes your strontium, mb, Carbonate, Calcium, and every thing else. EXCEPT Iodine.

the Kalkawaser is only Calcium hydroxide, so it's strictly calcium. It also jacks your ph wich in turn causes swings in pH. If not done correctly this can cause big trouble.

Waay back when before the two-part method and reliable calcium reactors pretty much all old school reefers had was kalkwasser. I found with my old 46 gallon that it does provide both Ca and Alk, but it can't keep up with much demand since it is evaporation limited.

I use kalk now simply to keep pH up at night.

The bottom line comes down to your needs. If you are cool running suppliments you have to add Kalkawaser and Carbonate buffer. At different times.

One for Calcium (kalk) one for KH (carbonate buffer). There is no way around it. Best to do it at different times to avoid precipitaion of Calcium Carbonate.

The calcium reactor is like a constant feed of both. Keep in mind if you don't de-gas enough you can have pH issues with a reactor as well. An answer to an earlier query, you really don't want or need to direct feed to your return pump. It won't de-gas the reactor effluant and probably have too high of feed rate. Resulting in an over dose of KH and Ca2+

Never had a calcium reactor... never wanted one. High Ca/kH demand, SPS tank. Automate you 2 part (3 part), it's the easiest way!

just a note, you can use your return pump to feed the Ca reactor, but not all the return can go through it. you just "T" off the return side with a 1/4" line and a valve to regulate how much you are supplying.

This is from Randy's Article -- What your Grandmother never told you about limewater


What Is Lime?

According to the National Lime Association, “lime” is defined as either quicklime or hydrated lime. These materials are made by heating calcium carbonate until the carbon dioxide is driven off, forming quicklime (calcium oxide):

1. CaCO3 à CaO + CO2

Water can then be added to form hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide; referred to subsequently in this article as just lime):

2. CaO + H2O à Ca(OH)2

Both lime and quicklime are suitable for making limewater (kalkwasser) and otherwise supplementing calcium and alkalinity in reef aquaria. There are some important differences between the use of lime and quicklime that will be discussed in subsequent sections. These differences relate to the fact that quicklime is slightly more potent and gets hot when water is added to it (equation 2).

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

I've never known that limewater only supplies calcium is a common misconception?

Lots of great info in this thread thank you all.
Would anyone know of a particular reactor with a very small footprint yet still suitable for a 90 gal tank? Im hoping on having a combination of softies and sps.
Thanks
Oxy

It should be that it does a better job of supplying Ca than it does Alk, and in a high usage tank it won't keep up as it is only added by make up water. but in the same turn, if you have a tank that the alk is stable but the Ca drops then it works.

the biggest advantage to the Ca reactor is that it buffers the Alk way better and can maintains it slightly elivated compared to Ca.

I used to run my alk at 12dkh as I found once I got above 11 my colors just popped. when I took my Ca reactor off line for a redesigning, my Kalk reactor couldn't keep up on its own with 7 gals per day of make up water in a 120 gal system. This was a high consumption tank with extreamly fast SPS growth.

now having said all this, in one tank it might work perfectly, where the other it may not, every tank is different, and what works for one won't nessasarly work for another.

Steve

neither a Ca reactor or a Kalk reactor will add a perfectly balanced amount of both Ca and Alk.

Calcium reactors increase alkalinity more than calcium and as a result you'll probably always find yourself having to dose a calcium additive or maintain a higher than normal alkalinity.

With Kalkwasser or Calcium Hydroxide it's the opposite. It will increase calcium more than alkalinity. So when using Kalk you'll likely always find yourself having to add a buffer to maintain your alkalinity. However calcium hydroxide does not directly add carbonate, it adds hydroxide which is not used by corals. The hydroxide however will react instantly with carbon dioxide to form carbonate. This is why many people using Kalk will have a difference in opinion on how much it is actually buffing their water.

For these reasons many of us believe the obvious solution would be to run both systems, however this will probably only work for a high demand system and could be difficult to tune to your tank's requirements. The obvious solution to me would be to use neither and employ a system which adds the exact amount of each in a balanced amount to meet your system requirements.

ViaAqua Acro-Cal Calcium Reactor
 

Anyone have any experience with this reactor for a small <100 gal tank?

Could you elaborate on this a bit for me please.
What kind of system do you use ?
Thanks

Steve Im constantly using more CAL then I am with Alk. my ALk is staying at 8.8 and my CAl is 370 could be alot higher like 400 thou, but remember that when dosing Kalk for a long period of time you are not getting the magnesuim too with a Cal Reactor you are maintaining the Magnesuim. so you ahv a tbest of both worlds.

I personally think it comes down to what the person wants to do. a Calcium reactor is a great way to sort of levels. you are constantly getting the right amount of MAG ,ALk ,CAL for the tank.

I don't see much wrong with 370, I kept mine at 380 and never had faster growth.

Steve

If you have an imbalance in Ca and KH boost your Mg. That will stabalize it. That seems to be the achillies heel with the calcium reactors.

I was hinting towards an automated dosing system which will add each element separately and can be adjusted to match the requirements of your system.

I currently use a Ca reactor but would like to upgrade to a dosing system, only thing in my way is money and time.