POLL : Reeflo Orca 250/ BK Super Marine 250 / BK Super Marine 300
 

OK i have decided that I'm not going to have time to build my dream skimmer and I'm going to resort to just buying a retail product. But I can't really decide what to get.
I have about 650 gallons of water with 165g in an LPS moderately fish stocked tank, 300g in a moderately stocked FOWLR tank, 125g in a sump with a couple of dinky fishes, and 40g in a refugium.
I'm kinda narrowed down my purchase to three possibilities:
Reeflo Orca 250
BK Super Marine 250
BK Super Marine 300

I know most people will believe the BK should be the answer but I'm a fan of and always considering the Orca 250 because its reaction chamber is almost double the size of the BK and its pushing through 2500 l/hr (http://www.reeflopumps.com/nwskimmers.html) of air compared to the BK's 2000 l/h.

which one should I get?????? Polling for the most popular........

Actually the BK supermarin 300 is pushing about 3600lph of air but then you could probably buy 2 orcas for the price of 1 BK


I voted for the BK300 because its not my money your spending :lol:

I have a reeflo and i wouldn't trade it for anything.

I don't have any of these skimmers, but after some research, I voted for the Orca. Factors were comparability to the BK 250, yet at about $400USD less. The BK 300 is impressive indeed, but seems to be about $700 more, if I'm not mistaken.

Interesting question. I guess my thought though is that is either one really going to be a disappointment? Both the BK250 and Orca's are very high end skimmers that I doubt will leave you feeling down. The only real basis of comparison that I can see is 45w for the BK250 and 120w for the Orca. Depends on what you pay for electricity, you guys on the coast are mostly hydro which is cheaper than hydrocarbon generated, which might push you towards the model with the lower initial cost whereas somewhere else you might be pushed the other way.

I think they'll both be similar in skimming ability, but the BKs will be quieter, use less electricity and take up less room - that's the extra that you're paying for. So if you're planning to put it in your basement sump room and you've got enough space and electicity isn't a big deal the Reeflo makes more sense. Of course it doesn't have the name cachet of the BK.

The almost cliched car metaphor works here: the Reeflo is like a Corvette, the BK is a Porsche. The American Vette is as fast (arguably faster depending on the model) as the German Porsche and it's cheaper, but at the same time the Vette is bigger, chunkier and uses a huge V8 versus the Porsche's flat-6. The Vette also lacks the Teutonic snob appeal of the 911.

nice
 

nice metaphor - i like it.

Then this guy has to post a Volcano skimmer for sale http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1494636

man oh man...... what to do???? what to do????

That's easy. Buy the Volcano. If you hate it I'll buy it off you. :p

Ironically enough, the seller's avatar is a Corvette :D

Hasn't the guy who makes Volcanos fallen off the face of the earth or something like that? I thought I saw an RC thread with a bunch of ****ed off owners complaining about customer service?

Not that I don't think that Chin couldn't deal with any skimmer hiccups himself. :)

Chin

We have a couple of Orca's here if you want to see them in action.


Wendell

Have you thought about a Fauna Marine Ultraskim ? For the price I'd be interested in seeing user comments & results - also like the power consumption rating. The quality looks Ok and they sure looks like a BK.

"The Fauna Marin UltraSkim is a high quality, German made protein skimmer designed to compliment the effective UltraLith system promoting Ultra Low Nutrient Systems (ULNS). Within the product range are 2 variants: UltraSkim 1 for 650 (190) Liter (gal) with Aquabee, 150 mm, 52 cm high, Air 850 Liters/h, 38 watt and the UltraSkim 2 for 1500 (395) Liter (gal) with Aquabee, 200 mm, 54 cm high, Air 1050 Liters/h, 38 watt "

Unfortunately, these are too small for Chin's 600 gallon system. The skimmers that he's looking at pull >2,000lph.

Chin the Orcas are a fantastic skimmer you really should come down to OA and have a look at them running so you can have a better idea. They are surprisingly quiet for such a large skimmer. The BK are great as well but at least you get a better comparison.

i'll take you up on that offer
 

Thanks guys i'll definitely be in soon to see them in action.

I can barely hear my reeflo. I have to actually listen for it to hear it.
Wouldn't change it for nothing.

Not even a BK Supermarin 300? :P

might want to stay away from the Volcano (RC thread)

Did you see the Volcano guy's tanks specs? It says his 600 gallon was skimmed by 2 BK skimmers.

I like two Orcas over the BK's for the money.

Winner is.........
 

Thank you for all who contributed to the poll. Well its a dead tie between the Orca and Supermarine so I decided to go with the Orca. The main reason is because its external, cheaper, and Reeflo gave me one hell of a deal. Here's a quick story on good customer support:
I emailed them (Reeflo) asking then what my options are since I had bought an Orca NW pump from them in JUNE 2007 and I have come to realize that I won't be able to get around to making my own DIY skimmer. I also asked them I had bought the pump before the ORCA skimmer was introduced and I was very interested in the Orca 250 skimmer. They came back with a reply that they would sell me an Orca 250 with GOLD DART pump for $1190 shipped and if I were to return the pump to them, they will give me $230 credit for the pump. Considering I had paid about $270 for the pump, it was only $40 loss and I got a great deal from Reeflo.

Two thumbs up for these guys. I'm now anxiously waiting for the arrival of my Orca 250 skimmer with the gold ORCA NW pump.

I will update pictures after I've picked up my skimmer. I'm heading to Hawaii on Nov 5 and returning on the 13 which is when I'll be picking up the skimmer from a parcel outlet. Looking forward to it.........

Wow I wish I saw this earlier, I could have probably changed your mind. First off the BK SM 300 is newer and I've got one sitting on my work bench ready for an install for a customer. That makes me one of the few to actually see this skimmer. It has two pumps but one is much smaller than the other one, it's a little bigger than the 250 but really it's basically the same so I would say go with the 250 over the 300 unless you want to run ozone since the 300 has ozone ports. I could have even taking pictures for you.

Also I can't believe someone would actually want one of those Orcas, seriously bad idea. It uses an external dart pump in a way I would almost guarantee you'll get a seal and bearing failure after about a year or so. Plus the pump uses around 150W compared to less than 50. Don't be fooled by the 120W rating look at the flow charts. The thing is oversized putting more into height than width which makes very little sense, it won't fit under a stand and results in the pump using more power than it needs and will bring in less air due to a higher static pressure. Plus have fun taking that collection cup off with all the plastic screws that will eventually were out, and that plastic looks pretty thin. Not solid construction at all, very similar to a Life-Reef which may have been good at the time but ask anyone that still has one what they think of it. Can you even clean the orca out, or is it one big piece of acrylic glued together, The BKs can be completely dismantled for a full cleaning including the diffuser plate.

For the extra $400 you could have gotten the BK 250, what a shame. The 250 would have lasted you forever and you would have always been happy with it. Maybe it's not too late??

Well, if it were me, I would have made the same choice. The BKs are way over priced for a bunch of plastic glued together, and the fact that I don't have $400 bills growing on trees would have been a big factor...

Congrats, Chin, on a good choice...

I would say the BKs are under priced and the orca is overpriced, the BKs use CNC machining and nothing but top quality plastic built like a rock. Nice and thick as appose to as thin as possible. The orca looks like it's ready to break before water hits it, even the pictures on the website show some parts of the skimmer are crooked. Maybe $400 is a lot but when you're already spending $1200 it's not that bad and actually I believe it's only $300 to correct myself.

I don't doubt the quality of BK's at all, but .. and maybe I'm just the odd one out on this .. but ... everytime I hear about how well they are put together and how beautiful the seams are, I feel it's like saying "I'm going to buy a Porsche because the fenders are attached to the frame with really nice fasteners." Beyond that it shouldn't fall apart given reasonable use, it's a detail I really don't care about in a skimmer and it alone doesn't justify the cost to me. For me the considerations are performance, reliability, ease of use, size, and the balance between up-front cost versus total cost of ownership. Beyond that I don't really care if it's made of acrylic, glass, PVC or something else, or how pretty the welds are. But again maybe it's just me. :lol:

But having said that, I know that the BK is an overacheiver in those other categories. So for me it comes down to the energy usage: I'd consider it if my electrical footprint gets reduced. But then it comes down to what kind of timeframe the savings compensate for the initial up front cost. If we're talking about 5 years or beyond, you have to take into consideration that tanks with that kind of longevity are fairly rare things...

reasons
 

But being newer really doesn't really equate to anything. It may be the most recent design but the fact its newer doesn't necessary mean better.

that was my thing with the 250 over the 300. I was paying an extra 400 for a smaller pump. Probably because two bigger pumps would have probably been too much for the size of the skimmer but still a lot of money for a pump. Also I do run Ozone which was another factor.

Have you owned one to be able to corroborate this statement?

Actually the pump max is 120W and is actually slightly lower with more air mixture. Compared to the 300 which is 80 watts combined for the two pumps, a difference of 40 watts was insignificant considering the price difference. I think it will take me 15 years to make up the difference for $1000 at 40 watts.
I did some research on the collection cup and noted that its keyholed meaning I only have to loosen slightly, twist and the cup comes off. I've PM about 6-7 owners of the ORCA 250 and they all do not have any issues with the removal of the collection cup. In my situation, the skimmer will be right beside the sink beside the sump and I have a garden hose attachment to the faucet. So I don't even have to remove the collection cup. I will install a hose from the drain into the sink and when I need to, I'll be hosing the inside of the collection cup to clean it.
Most plastics look thin in pictures but a little research goes a long way rather than making misleading assumptions. The entire skimmer is made of 1/4" cast acrylic - not thin at all in my standards and my experience with making skimmers.

Well a big factor in my case is the external skimmer factor. I do keep breeding fish and smaller animals in my sump which I didn't want to get sucked into any skimmers. I've already lost a couple of bangaii's who perished due me test-driving some skimmers in my sump. I have seen some BK from local reefers and I do admit they are good construction. In this case though, the Orca is pushing 2545 liters per hour of air with one pump and BK300 is pushing 3000-3600 liters per hour with two pumps. Maybe I should modifiy it for two reeflo pumps for 5000 lph on my new skimmer :lol:
Also I like the bigger body size of the orca and I don't see the size as anything detrimental in my case. The body is 12" diameter and its about 32 high - lots of volume and height for bubble-protein contact.

I have heard about the seals giving on the external reeflo pumps but there is a lifetime warranty on these pumps and Reeflo assured me that the Gold reeflo Orca NW's have all the seals and fittings for 24/7/365 skimming. If anything goes, they will replace for free.

I know opinions of skimmers will vary from owner to owner but I have yet to find a dissatisfied owner of an Orca. None of them have every expressed any regret which was another big factor for me. It should be noted that none of them had their pumps' seal leak either but its only been a year since these skimmers came out so time will tell.

If you compare the Orca 250 to the BK 250 which only uses one pump at 40W compared to the dart which I'm sorry will use more than 120W, it's a dart pump which is running at about 3 feet of head, check the pump flow charts. Mixing air in with the water will actually decrease the fluid density which means if anything the pump will spin faster and use more power. I would bet that pump runs at 150W. Either way that's three or more times the power. You also have to realize the orca started from people building ridiculously large skimmers and making a DIY needle wheel dart to run them, reeflo obviously saw a potential market and jumped on it, they haven't been building skimmers for very long and somehow drought they'll be doing it for much longer. Experience pays.

Also just the noise factor is enough to turn me off, I run dart pumps and I do like them as they are decently quiet but not even close to the red dragon. After all the dart is just a hot tub pump with different seals, plus when air get in the dart it's load, so I'm not sure how noisy that pump will be but I don't think it will be quiet not by my standards anyway.

I get the external thing but it's really not that difficult to build an external tank for the skimmer to sit in at least that way you don't have to worry about skimmer overflow. Also the BKs have super heavy lids to prevent this.

And I'm aware of the keyholes, and you'll eventually have to use pliers to loosen and tighten them to remove the collection cup. They will also eventually start sticking and even break off. You'll get tied of that real quick, especially with at least 10 of them. This is old technology, that's all I'm saying. No good quality skimmer uses these, it's an easy DIY method, that's it.

I don't own an orca for obvious reasons, I own a BK 250. I've been around for while to know what is good and what is bad, basically I don't need to eat crap to know what it tastes like.

In the end I'm just trying to help, I can see you mind is already made up and nothing will change it, most likely due to the fact you've already paid for the skimmer and yes it's a lot of money. I wouldn't admit it wasn't a good choice either.

Cheers, I hope it works out for you.

Well i have a orca and the pump is using a baldor motor not the standard reeflo. On a watt meter I am getting 116 watts. And if the BK uses 80 watts like you said, and the reeflo is 150 watts, i may be no math professor but thats not even two times the power not three. So for anyone who would actually like to hear one and see the quality let me know, don't take the word from someone who has never seen one working. Go to reefcentral and read what others have had to say.

Just a dumb comment. That's all I have to say, just dumb...

Dumb but 100% true

40w!

Why? Because someone actually disagrees with you? He made a sound decision based on his criteria, not yours. For him, it was a smart choice. I would have made the same choice.
Sure, maybe wealthy tank owners can afford the BK 9000 with chrome trim, but most can't, and there are plenty of great skimmers on the market for way less money. The BK is just bling and provides bragging rights, it's not the best skimmer per dollar spent.

No because it's true, if someone spends $1200 on something, they have yet to even see it, no matter what anyone says they will never agree, it's just fact.


And you said my comment was dumb.
The BK is not just "bling" ask anyone that owes one, best money they ever spent. The amount of effort and energy involved in those skimmers is crazy, and they thought of everything. They even have titanium screws in the base so you can remove it and clean the diffuser plate. Plus you don't have to worry about it cracking, it runs super quiet and is a proven sound product. There's actually a lot more involved in efficient protein skimming than just hocking up a big pump to a large body.

Anyway this has gone too far, I'm sorry I was just trying to help.

Sure doesn't sound like it....sounded condescending and insulting instead...

But yes, this has gone far enough. You like BK, I don't. We won't agree.

Schelps - don't take this debate personally. We are all expressing opinions but don't criticize other's decision based on your opinion. Your comments and opinions should be more subjective IMO and although I appreciate a devil's advocate in a debate, we should exercise caution when making remarks about the other product when you don't have personal knowledge about it. For example to state that the Orca has thin plastic when its made of 1/4" cast is not accurate. Also when air is mixed with water, resistance is lowered and power consumption is lowered so stating that the air/water mixture will result in 150W is also inaccurate.
Fact-based opinions are much more credible than assumption-based opinions. You recently made similar assumption-based opinions on the Bubble Magus and without first-hand knowledge on the products in question, I strongly encourage discussing the product you are knowledgeable on and I do discourage making untrue assumptions on the products you are not as knowledgeable about.
Nevertheless, I love debates and for reasons outlined above in my previous post, I have made a decision of which one should support as a fellow reefkeeper. To bash my decision is neither beneficial nor supportive. I assure you I will be just as happy with the Orca as you and my good friends are with your Bubble Kings.

All skimmers have pros and cons thats why they keep tryin to perfect them.The bubblekings are stupidly priced for what their purpose is.

Skimmers, reactors, everything from acrylic seems overpriced. Heard the argument engineering costs but sure BK had gotten their money back.

As for Reeflo customer support, I'm in agreement it gets a 10 of 10 from me. One thing that does bother me a little bit was when I was talking to them about a pump, they gave me the list of their Canadian distributors, but then offered me the pump for about a 100 less than I could have gotten from a Cdn reseller. Good for me, bad for some of my favorite places that carry Reeflo

I agree about reeflo customer support when i got my reeflo it was shipped with the ao smith motor. I contacted them and let them know and they shipped me a reeflo gold no questions asked. Now i have a second pump for the skimmer as a back up.

The only thing I would caution is make sure you install it in a place where you can see the pump and service it I have 2 reeflo dart one for a closed loop one for my main return on both of them the seals have failed with in the first year in service. The one pump I had to replace as the shaft was so badly corroded I could not reseal it. Dont get me wrong I love these pumps lots of GPH for the buck and they run nice and quiet. I am hopping the Reeflo Gold has the seal problem resolved. It must have something to do with the salt water as I have a Sequence pump on my Koi pond and it has been running for 3 plus years with out a leak.

I wasn't trying to insult anyone or bash a decision although I would agree it defiantly come out that way. My way is to alway state things exactly how I see them or exactly how it is. It seems harsh sometimes but I find it's affective but it's important to realize I'm only here to help. But you're right I don't always make it clear that some of what I said is opinion based.

On another note with a centrifugal style pump less resistance will actually result in more power consumption that's fact not opinion. This is why the pump uses less power as head pressure increases. The different motor was recent upgrade last time I read about this skimmer the motor was the same as the dart.

Also I think 1/4" is thin for something that large, it's good for smaller skimmers but once you get into 12" diameter and almost 3 feet tall I really don't think it cuts it anymore, would you use a tank 3 foot tall or even 2 foot tall with 1/4" acrylic, probably not.

I also like these heated debates as I usually learn more as I find when my tone comes out more assy people go out of there way to prove me wrong, it's actually a very effective research tool :biggrin:

The bottom line here is that these skimmers really aren't in the same league and if your budget allowed for it there's really only one choice. We can all wish and wish for a cheaper version of a BK but after seeing quite a few of these skimmers and being in the manufacturing business myself I really don't see it ever happening.