Ska's 28 Macro Algae Display
 

Hey,
My tank came in. Updates will be posted on this main page as well as in the thread itself to allow for quicker viewing and commenting.
Specs will also be on this page as well as other imperitive information.

Past thread leading up to this one: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde......14&hl=30gal

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=42302
Bought So Far:
Tank: 28gal 36x12x15" or 92x30x38cm total cost: $135
Ebay order: Hagen Glo Light fixture 36" 2x39 T5 HO Total cost: $144.96
Progressive Reef order: ATI blue+, ATI aquablue special: $83.68
Orders from JLA: OA Test Kit $54.95
Fiji Pink Substrate 20lbs $32.65
Coral Frenzy Food 56g $27.95
Hydor K1 $31.95
Hydor K2 $39.95
IO Salt 50gal $16.45
Sm Proscraper $5.55
NL All purpose food 80g $7.45
Seachem Reef Plus 500ml $10.55
Seachem Trace 500ml $10.55
Ebo Jagger 100watt heater $27.95
Tunze 9002 PS $179.85
Vertex Refractometer $49.95
JLA Total:$587.66
Bulk Reef Supply Order: 25lbs Eco Rox with shipping etc
Bulk Reef Supply Total: $114.13
walmart gloves: $5
Petland: LR $33
Peppermint shrimp $27 ------------------------------------Dead
Percula clowns x2 $27= $54
Dragons tongue macro algae (free)
JLA: reef-roids $24.95
calcium addative $12.55
Kent iron and manganese additive $7.95
long proscraper $20.75
Coral from hockey nut $110:
1 multi coloured ricorda
1 purple branching gorgonian------------------Not enough light Dead
3 rhodactus mushrooms
1 pink zoas
1 ice blue cloves---------------------------- Died in Shipping
1 green spotted mushrooms------------------ Melted
red macro algae
Coral from TangDaddy $110
3 zoa colonies--------------------------------2 remaining
1 yellow/brown gorgonian----------------------Not enough light Dead
1 green with orange spot mushroom-------------Melted
1 blue mushroom
1 superman Rhodactus--------------------------Fell on sandbed Melted
1 blue ric
1 iceblue cloves----------------------------Died in shipping
Petland: $70
hawian feather duster
11 head candycane--------------------------Died during green water battle
2 pieces of LR with macroalgae (red bubble and calpura)
Husband: $80
Coral Beauty----------------------------Died for unknown reason suddenly
Petland :$30
Yellow feather duster


Running Total: $1677.31

Free: Blades (science lab pilliging)
Turkey Baster (christmas gift)
1 5gal restaurant ice cream bucket (from uncle, looking to get more)
1 margarine container for food mixing and fert dosing
2 1 gal milk jugs for tap water top off.

Yet to get:
1 5 gal bucket

Coral i still want:
Rics, yumas and other mushrooms
Cloves
Sponges
Inverts and Fish i am considering (not all in the one tank):
Skunk cleaner shrimp
Fan worms
Coral Beauty angelfish
Lots of gobies
6 line wrasse




http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...a/28gal004.jpg
June 10, 2010
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...June102010.jpg
July 17, 2010
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...a/July2010.jpg
July 26,2010
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...tankJuly26.jpg
Aug 2010
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ya/aug2010.jpg
November 2010
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...vember2010.jpg
July 2011
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...TSJuly2011.jpg

koralia 3 will be way to much flow in that tank. your going to be running into problems but a nano and a 1 would be great.

If you plan on running a HOB fung run a AC110 with cheato and live rock, i still think my AC50 barely gets the job done.

but i like where your heading, should be a cool finished project

i think this will look kool. i like the size of tank for a reef.
i expect great thignswill come out of this tank

I was thinking a K3 may be too much flow but after a lot of reading i found that the nanos arent really that great and the K1's are good but not enough flow for my tank and they are large. I would need at least a K2 or 2 K1's for my tank because it is long. But I also read quite a few threads that state go with one K higher than you would want.
Also i wanted a medium turnover. Its not needed in a softy tank but i wanted to make sure to keep debris suspended and i wanted enough flow that there would not be many if any dead spots. With 1 Koralia i will have a variety of high flow and low flow areas so that i can have a variety of corals that like different areas.
But I would love to know what kinds of things will go wrong with that amount of flow in a tank this size. People who have SPS have a lot more flow than that.

I would like to have an AC110 however im not in any rush. I know the AC i have is bairly adequate but its just for minor things like polyfibre and carbon; its not a fuge.

I agree i love this size tank. When i saw it i had to have it. I hope it turns out good but im a beginner so we shall see. The hardest part will be getting the coral. My lfs has no selection and they will not bring anything in. FW no problem but anything SW is a no. Anything i get will need to be from online vendors or local reefers (none that i know of where i live so im counting on you guys)

Just my two cents, but I have a Koralia 4 in my 20g. I also have a Seio 820. My 20g isn't as long as yours, but it's do-able. It all comes down to placement of the pumps, and rocks. I would say go with more flow than less.. but that is my opinion, as you can work around it.

That tank dose look pretty shallow though.. You'd probably have to set the K4 on the bottom facing upwards a bit.. either that or go with 2 Seio 820's. I love the Seio's .. I think I prefer them over the Koralia. They seem more solid, and keep a steady constant flow, whereas I find the Koralia all over the place, with weak spots and strong spots. And yes, they are large, even more so in a small tank!

Also.. to add, if you want something big and pink, on the verge of red as a centerpiece.. I'd recommend a nice big Brain Coral. They are pretty easy to keep, very hardy (at least in my experience) . Blue corals seem somewhat rare, but ric's are commonly sold in blue. Blue zoo's are amazing too.

Thanks for the input OCDP.
I agree more flow is better than too little, however i also dont want the shallow sand bed blowing around everywhere, thats why i decided K3. Also i like the idea of the random water movement. A higher water movement coral can be placed in the higher flow area as apposed to a coral that likes lower flow.

Yes blue corals are kinda rare but thats okay i plan on taking the hobby very slowly so im not in any rush to pack the tank full of blue corals in 6 months. I just want to have a few small frags and watch everything grow and take over the tank to give that wild look.

Thanks for the brain suggestion. I do have it on my list but im worried that if the centerpiece area is on the rocks (it will depend on rock placement) then i would tear the flesh. Brains belong on the sand. But, it is on my list of maybe.
Also on my maybe list are but are only on the list because of colour:
RBTA
pink birds nest
sun coral
group of feather dusters or coco worms or christmas worm
flower tree coral red/orange
Carnation tree coral
Orange tree gorgonian
Yellow tree gorg
red sea fan
red brain
blasto
red macro algae like kelp or red grape
*Again this list is just for the colours not what i intend to keep* The list will be edited down to no heavy feedings, non agressive species and species that do not need calcium comming out the yin yang.

This tank will not have a lot of coral. Just a few species to grow out. I saw some electric blue shrooms as well that i am now dreaming about in there too. :)

You've got some really difficult to keep non-photosynthetic filter feeders (azooxanthellate) on that list. Have you seen this article before? http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-02/feature/index.php If those are what you want to get into its worth reading.

While you're starting out and wanting to do a mixed reef I'd cut that list back to RBTA, Birdsnest, Open Brain, Blasto (expensive), feather dusters and macro algae. Sun corals while not necessarily difficult do require almost daily feeding of each individual polyp... its a lot of work and makes going on vacation a pain. If red is your thing you could also add an acan to that list.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...aneyedo/72.jpg

I disagree... it will be about 30x turnover, and with it being a 36" tank, mounting the K3 at one end would work well I think. :wink:

he is looking at keeping softies so if you put a K3 on one end there will be way to much flow on one end of the tank, actually to mush for what he wants to keep. with a k1 on one end and a nano on the other this should balance it out with enough flow. I reccomended adding the nano since it was longer.

whatcaneyedo: Yes i know most on my list are not worth keeping in my tank. Esp for a beginner. I just have them on the list for colour so people know approx what i am looking for (colour wise). I have not decided anything yet and it will be quite a while before i decide what i would want to get for my centerpiece. So no rush and yes i am slowly doing research on these items. Most are off the list.
is that your acan? it looks awsome. I notice your in PG. 8 hours away from me. hmmmm lol.
Lorenz0: from everyone that has given me advice and from everything i have read you are the only person that is against the K3 in my tank. Ive seen a 20gal with a k3 in it for softies. My tank is 28gal 36" Long. Ive even been told to go for 2 K3's one at each end or 2 K2's even a K4 and a K1. I chose 1 K3. Lots of flow will help to prevent algae and deterius build up. Yes i will have a lot of flow in one area but ive also seen shrooms growing in areas like that. Cloves which i really want need medium flow to prevent algae from growing in between the polyps.
I dont want LOW flow i want a medium flow. Koralias dont preform top notch for very long. Also whenever getting a filter/power head/etc always get one bigger than what you need because of preformance issues most do not reach their gph and are slightly under that and with time their gph decreases even furthur. About 30x turnover is not bad. Its not sps turnover which is a lot its just under that.
To my understanding with nanos the most important parts of the hobby that you need to get right are good lighting, good water for waterchanges (salinity included), and good water flow.

Oh and PS to everyone im a she not a he LMAO :)

I am just talking from experience with nano's

if you want to run a K3 its all up to you. even running a K1 in my nano i found some area's to still have to much flow. If you believe thats the route you want to take its all up to you but imo my mushrooms actually trive more in the less flow area's.

Try different things and decide what works for you. I only have 1 Koralia #2 in my 50 gallon reef tank (LPS and Softies) and all my corals are super happy. In fact I had 2 Koralia #3 when I first set up my tank and it was too much flow. Then I went with only 1 Koralia #3 but my corals were still not happy so I switched that for a #2 and everything seems to be doing well.

My tank has been set up like that for almost 2 years now. I am not saying that this is what you should do. All I am saying is that different things work for different people. Experiment a bit and see what works for YOU. In this hobby you are often going to get different opinions from different people. That's why you have to do what work for YOU regardless of what some people say.


Cheers

Hey, nice to hear of more women getting into the hobby!!. I wouldn't worry too much about the koralia 3 the water that comes out of them is soft feeling not like a maxi jet when it blasts water through a small opening. If you angle your pump either towards the surface or against one of the panes of glass you should be fine.

Your tank is 8Gs smaller and 12" shorter... lol.. 36" is along ways for a K3 to push water..

If i get an HOB fuge then i will only need a K2 right? since the HOB and the skimmer will be creating some flow. Right?

Correct... It will depend on the HOB filter tho, to make up the flow difference between a K2 and K3 (approx. 250gph difference)

My 33g has a K2 and a MJ1200, and I wouldn't want any more flow for LPS.

Actually, it doesn't exactly work like that IME. The useable flow out of an HOB-anything is next to useless because it is merely dropping straight down into the tank rather than flowing around throughout the tank.

Think of filling your bathtub: at the tap end there's a lot of flow going straight down, but not much of that force is getting to the far end of the tub. Now, take the same flow and point it sideways underwater like a hose and you'll get plenty of flow at the other end.

In any event, fuges require LOW flow to be of any use in any event. The water coming out of it and your HOB skimmer will be rather gentle (certainly nowhere near as much force as an open tap) and won't have much of an effect on anything that isn't directly underneath of it.

I thought the same way with my old 46 bowfront. I added up the flow from all the powerheads and HOB skimmer and refugium. On paper it looked great, but in actual practice there was no where near enough flow and I had to put in bigger powerheads.

Ya, you can't really count anything other than powerheads for your flow unless the tank is like 10g. :)

So then if i stick with a K3 will that be too much flow for a CPR Aqua fuge to work properly? Or should i go with a K2 for this?
Im looking at the CPR medium 3.6gallons. Is it worth it or should i just nix the idea and continue with simple and just do the K3 with the skimmer like i had planned???

An AquaFuge needs a powerhead to run the water from your tank into the fuge. AquaFuge's run just like an HOB power filter (like say an AquaClear). It uses a pump to pull the water out of the tank, then overflows back into the tank. You can't use a Koralia to run a CPR AquaFuge, it's the wrong design. The AquaFuge's come with their own powerhead to run it, that is small and has slow flow. The amount of flow you have in the tank has nothing to do with the amount of flow you have running through the AquaFuge. You can use the K3, the skimmer, and the AquaFuge all together with no problem, in fact they will compliment eachother quite well. :)

The AquaFuge is SO similar to an AquaClear HOB filter in fact, that you can use an AquaClear as a fuge if you'd like to, for A LOT less money. Lots of people use AquaClear 110's (the biggest ones) for fuges. You can find the modded AC110's in the classifieds every once in awhile. Look up AquaClear mods or try this link: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=38221

Oh i know the K3 wont power the fuge i was wondering about it in addition to the HOB. But youve answered my question completely.
Now researching AC110 :) Ive seen it done lots of times my issue with it will be finding a light for it. Other than that its all good now. Thank you :)

A standard incandescent light strip for a 5g tank fits the AC110 perfectly, and it's cheap! Use a Philips Daylight 6500K spiral compact flourescent bulb, and you're set. It even produces a nice color from the bulb, not uber yellow like the Coralife 6500Ks.

Well i already got the light in a desk lamp im using over my nano fw planted so i could just use that. It is 6500K :)
Now im looking at a K2 on one end of the tank and a K1 on the other because like someone mentioned its a long way for a K3 to push water. I dont want to have a near stagnant area. A K2 and a K1 add up to have almost the same flow as a single K3. It will cost more but im just not sure :(
AND what really sucks is that i have to finish my office build. Im getting sick and tired of waiting for it to get finished by my hubby and his dad. Its been nearly a year! So im gonna take the money saved up and spend it on bookcases. My dad in law was gonna build them which would be cheaper but he wont start them until after hunting season which is in October. I needed my office last year! So i guess this means im gonna have an empty tank until around christmas time :( Im hoping thats not the case but yea im gonna have to start my saving from scratch again.

This will work for the AC110
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s...t_ID=pc-al0909

Be sure that when you have one on one end, and one on the other that they don't face eachother otherwise they knock out half the flow from eachother.

Sorry I havent been on in a while. I ended up spending my money on bookshelves for my office $1000+ which i really needed. My knees and bum were getting sore from doing paper work on the floor and digging through piles of books and papers stacked up on average 3ft high on the floor.
Anyway I managed to save up enough money to buy some equiptment YAY! and then BOOM the electric bill comes. Did you know that there is a new residential conservation rate? It just started up Oct 1 of this year. Well you can imagine my ****yness when our electric bill went up an extra $100 because of this.
This is an incentive for people to conserve energy and to do this they are going to charge extra for power. So instead of power costing $0.06550 it is now going to cost in total $0.18 on average BUT it will depend. I quote "If you use less than 2260 kWh on a bi-monthly basis you will pay less than under the previous flat rate structure" it goes on to say "The new rate structure provides a price incentive to encourage conservation"
It says on the hydro website if you use more than 1350kWh you will pay 7.21cents/kwh until April 1 2009 at which time this price will go up to 8.21/kwh cents. But if you use less than 1350kWh then you only pay 5.95/kwh cents until April 1, 2009 when the price goes up to 6.35 cents per kwh and this is on top of the rate we are paying now which is a little over 6 cents.
BUT get this there are 2 steps to this Step one charges 0.5980/kwh and step 2 charges 0.07210/kwh so really you are getting charged 3 times. WHY? i have no idea and when i called they couldnt explain it to me either and only told me to wait until they read the meter again in november and re-bill me. I was like WTF?
So in total i am paying 18cents per kWh.
This means the tank I want to set up will now cost PER MONTH:

Heater = 100watts 24/7
Hydor K1 = 3.5watts 24/7
Hydor k2= 4.5watts 24/7
Skimmer = 10watts 24/7
Lights = ~160watts 8hrs

watts/1000 (conversion to kW) then
kW x hours x kWh cost (18 cents in my case) x 31 (days of the month)
Then you get your answer

For me its $127.38/month AND this does not include normal upkeep costs, salt, water, food, etc. This is just for electric.
Before this my 28gal would have cost me about $50/month. I feel sorry for those that have 100+ gal systems WOW!

So now what do i do. Do i still do salt water or do i switch to something else that is cheaper. *sigh* our economy sucks.

Why on EARTH would your heater be running 24/7????

Maybe I'm reading my bill wrong but I don't think it's "on top of the rate we are paying now which is a little over 6 cents"
My bill has been separated into 2 parts, before oct 1st and after oct 1 and nowhere after oct 1 is there an extra 6 cent charge just the $.059 and the $.072

Oh yea and I'm paying about $120 a month and I have 4 tanks running, 1 of them is my 175g

Marie: That is why I called them yesterday to figure this out. It didnt make any sence to me. My bill says that under the normal rate of 0.06550/kWh i would have spent 76.05 last month. Which is what i would have had to pay before.

Under that it says Usage Charge step 1 and step 2 "Oct 01 to Oct 16 (residential conservation rate 1101) Basic charge: 16 days @ $ 0.12380/day"
Step 1 then goes on to charge me $21.23 and step 2 charges me 63.81 and then gst 8.29

Now the charge of my 75.05 for the normal usage plus step 1 and 2 and gst and the rider rate and the clean energy fund levy My total comes out to $174.79 for everything in my house.

So they basically charged me 3 times. Now, what i was told on the phone by these people was to wait until the november reading for a re-billing. She said that it would make more sense next month but If im paying a total of 18cents / kWh staying under the 1350 kWh line then i will be paying about 2Cents extra /kWh (20 cents total) if i go over that AND it will all change April 1 when the rates go up. SO then the norm would be 19 cents normally if i stay under the 1350 line and 21 cents if i go over.

And marie whats your secret to only paying that much for your tanks??
I currently have only one tank running (i tore down the other two) and its FW. I got rid of my hot tub, switched to cold water, changed all the bulbs in my house, etc etc etc and Im paying more now than what i did last year. WTF??? makes no sense to me. Please Please tell me your secret.

X-Treme
Is it wrong to have a heater running 24/7 ?? I thought that the temp would be regulated that way. Thats the way ive been doing it for years and my temps stay constant. When the temp goes over what i set it too on the heater then the heater shuts off until the temp falls below what i set it too and then it comes back on.
Please explain why its not a smart thing to do to run a heater on 24/7 im confused with this.

Well in your billing summary you are figuring out power usage for your heater RUNNING 24/7. Just because it is plugged in 24/7 doesn't mean it RUNS 24/7. Due to lighting and ambient temps, I would say that your heater actually RUNS (is turned on) 6 hours per day at the ABSOLUTE MAX. Therefore it only draws power for that amount of time. So you would use 600 watts per day rather than your calculated 2400watts.

very true X-treme but even with those calculations i would only be saving a couple of bucks so i would still be paying over $100 a month for a 28gal tank which is outrageous to me. And you also need to remember that a heater isint completely turned off if it is still plugged in think of it as on standby. There is still some energy being used so that it can detect when it needs to be turned on or off. Its the same as a computer in standby or sleep mode. Technically its still on and using power but not as much.

What he means is that your heater is only drawing electricity (i.e. "ON") when the little red light is on. You may have it plugged in, but it's not drawing electricity 24/7. Therefore, you cannot say that your 50W heater is using 50W all day long as say your return pump would be.

Ok i dont know what i was doing yesterday but i think i was typing in 18 instead of .18 or something.
So let me do these calculations online so you guys can make sure im doing it right. Math is not my best subject

Heater 100w
hk1 3.5w
hk2 4.5w
skimmer 10w
lights 160w

the first 4 are 24/7 so i will do them together. they come out to 118watts total divided by 1000 = 0.118kW

then I go 0.118 x 24hours x 0.18 cents x 31 days = $15.80

next: 160/1000 = 0.16kW 0.16kW x 8 x 0.18 x 31 = $7.14

15.80 + 7.14 = $22.94 a month.


That is much better than the $100+ i did yesterday. What the heck was i thinking for those equations? Wow.

You are still wrong with calculating that your heater will draw 100w 24/7. If you want a 24/7 figure I would go with 25w. (ie. drawing 100W 1/4 of the day)

ok so im overestimating slightly. The point is that im not paying $100+ a month anymore. And if the heater isint on all that time then the price will be under $20 a month YAY!!!!

Update: ... not really much to update other than to let people know im still here. Ive saved up about $525 now.. shesh this is gonna take me forever. The majority of the cash is going into our Newfoundland trip for this summer (family reunion on my hubbys side). My budget is $1200. I went to check out the prices today to see if prices changed... YUP! Everything went up by a lot. My tank costs just for setups are now and extra $200 total. WTF!!! And that doesnt include corals or fish. You have no idea how much it upsets me.
But anyway i managed to shave off $100 for a total of $1018.88 approximately which leaves me about $150 for coral and fish. Yikes.
Heres my new list of what to buy (but im not happy about the price increases for any of them)
Test Kit
20lbs Fiji pink substrate
HK1
HK2
50lbs Instant Ocean Salt (From the original 160gal mix)
100w Ebo Jagger heater
12inch proscraper (from original 24inch)
Tunze Protein Skimmer
Refractometer
Ocean Nutrition small pellets (from other more expensive brand)
Nova Extreme T5 HO 4x39 (price went up on this by a lot)
22lbs dead Rock from bulk reef supply

Corals I really want are:
Ice blue cloves, blue zoas or zoas with blue in them (maily light blue so they are easier to see), some pink zoas for contrast, Gemini Palys (because im a gemini ), Blue shrooms, Blue rics and rics with blue in them, pulsing xenia (the one that looks like it has a blue stripe going through its main stalks and fingers), Something that will move in the current like a hammer or elegance coral <puurrrddyy, and something that is freaky coloured like WOW possible acan or blasto.

Livestock:
2 true percs and possibly a coral beauty (my fav fish)
CUC snails and hermies and cleaner shrimp maybe.



A $200 increase in store prices made a lot of what I want unreachable, stupid economy or canadian/US doller thingie, whatever is ruining my plans BOOOO!!!

Since you probably won't adding the LPS until at least 6 weeks after the tank is under way you have some more time to save.

I'm sure you know but I thought I'd chime in "just in case" not to add all of your livestock at once. :biggrin:

i really like the dimensions of that tank, any new pictures yet??

No, Its not even set up yet. It still sitting empty because ive been trying to save up money again for it. I had $1000 but i spent it on bookshelves for my office (i needed them).
Because of the price increases i am really re-thinking saltwater :( I would still love to have one but the cost is just rediculious now.

Ive been resarching so i could do something that is budget wise and 'low tech'

Im trying to see how low i can go for lighting and still keep nicely coloured softies and no lps.
Im more interested in zoas, rics, shrooms, cloves, and xenia anyways
Because these corals like a 'dirty' tank Im wondering if i should just not get the skimmer at all. However I wont be able to do weekly WC. Perhaps every other week or so... But ive read of many people going weeks without a WC and doing only topoffs. Ive even read somewhere of someone not doing a WC for a year!!! Still its not ideal and i dont want the life in my tank to suffer.

I dont know how to edit my list down other than to downgrade the tank but i already have the tank.
So now im wondering if i could go with lower lighting and if so how low and where to buy it. I dont want to spend more than $300 but that doesnt mean i want a $300 fixture. and this includes bulbs.
Im wondering about not getting a refractometer and just going for a hydrometer again
Instead of LR i would be doing dead rock and then seeding it so i can save some cash there
Any other ideas to how i can save more money?


Snaz: yes i already know about not adding all livestock all at once. Im willing to be very patient as you can probably tell by me not having the tank set up yet. The price i quoted previously was just for setup, it doesnt include any livestock.
Boomboy: yea thats why i wanted this size tank because the size is just awsome.