Looking for your input on brokerage fees.
 

We are thinking of changing shipping program and we would like your input. Both use UPS. Please share this post with your local clubs as we would very much appreciate as much input on this as possible. it is our sincere desire to provide the best service possible to Canadians.

Option 1) What we have currently . flat $10 brokerage for orders Under $200 (CAN) in value. After $200 the brokerage fee goes up drastically. This method has you pay the taxes and duties at your doorstep which can sometimes be more than you expect.

Option 2) Zero brokerage fees on any size order. taxes and duties are added into the order and you pay them when you check out. Package arrives without any any money due and no surprise fees. Down side is we need to consolidate orders so we will only be able to ship canadian orders on Friday's.

Basically is waiting a few days for it to be shipped worth the savings from removing the brokerage fees entirely and not having surprise fees at your doorstep.

I'm all for option #2. I would rather wait a few days and know exactly what I'm getting then a surprise at the door. With #2 would you continue to ship via UPS?

I'm for option #2 as well, waiting is no big deal. However the best option would be not to ship with UPS at all. Personally every item I have ever had shipped UPS was kicked here by various UPS employees with steel toed boots (perhaps with spikes) and then run over/speared by a forklift. By the looks of the packages when they get here, I'd say UPS employees really really hate their jobs and take it out on my stuff.

Yes we would use UPS , just a different program they have available that involves consolidating many orders into one large shipment. This program uses the total value of all the orders to calculate brokerage fees. At higher values the brokerage fees are a much smaller percentage of the total value and we would be willing to pay them for you out of our pocket in an effort to provide a better service to Canadians.

We have considered using USPS but it is such a nightmare from a business standpoint we just can't do it and if you get rid of or reduce the brokerage fees there really isn't any advantage. In fact USPS typically charges more for the actual postage . For example a 10 pound package shipped from here to Calgary, Alberta is $30.10 with the postal service (USPS) and only $20.45 with UPS. USPS looses and damages way more packages and their tracking system is so bad it isn't worth mentioning.

There certainly are people who hate their jobs at all these companies and throw rather than stack but we have had an incredible experience with UPS. Out of the 5,000 or 6,000 boxes we have shipped We have had maybe 5 or 6 reports of damage from customers and half of those were fluorescent light bulbs that broke during our learning process of trying to figure out how to ship them properly.

I believe most of the damage caused to packages is caused by two things.

1) The automated equipment used to organize and transport the boxes around the warehouses and distribution points

2) the shipper using poor quality boxes to try and save money.

When would you be looking to implement these changes, if you feel they will work out for you? I would love to take advantage of #2 of it comes about.

If a significant amount of Canadian customers express their needs would be better served by option two I think we could have this up and running within a week of deciding to do so.

We have a weekly meeting on these type of things every Tuesday . We will probably evaluate the responses made on this thread and well as other avenues to make a decision one way or the other.

That is very quick! Most of what attracts me as a customer to your business is your abundance of drygoods, and the quantities that aren't available here. Not to mention that your prices are better on certain goods as well. However as it stands right now the $200 limit makes it hard to order everything I'd want. I really do hope you make those changes and go with #2. Good luck!

I think option 2 would be the way to go. A newbie question here now. What is this for? Obviously an online store or retailer, but which one?

I like option #2 best.

Bulk Reef Supply.com

We're in the Bulk Reef Supply forum :)

Wow, is there really even a downside to option #2? Waiting a few extra days (if need be) is nothing. My vote is cast.. :)

Is this a trick question? :razz: Shipments to Canada are delayed at customs anyway, so a few extra days to save some fees is no big deal. Two thumbs up for option 2.

shipping
 

option # 2 for sure....you just never know what the extra fees will be when receiving parcels from USA...

#2 sounds like a great program. If you are short on patience and can't wait a few days extra you are in the wrong hobby anyways.. :razz:

Option 2.

I vote Option 2 but just wondering how do you calculate the taxes and duties due to prepay without knowing the total amount to be shipped on the Friday?

option 2
 

Option 2 is great. Ups from the states is over fifty percent faster than strait canadian anyway. It took two days from the us from j&l it takes ups 5-7 days to get to ontario

Option 2 works for me. Infact i recently ordered some DI filters from a Canadian distributor because i didnt know how much the final bill would be from you people and i didnt want any suprises when it arrived.

taxes and duties are directly related to the products purchased, don't fluctuate and can be easily added in during checkout. We can then choose to have these fees paid by us rather than you so there are no surprises when the package arrives, if there are any surprises they will be for us and paid for by us : )

the brokerage fess change drastically with prices. With a $100 order the brokerage is $39.1 after brokerage , bond and COD fees. This is 40% of the purchase price.

if we take advantage of this program that consolidates all the orders into one $1500 shipment the brokerage would be $73.35 which is less than 5% of the value of the order. We are willing to pay that 5% out of pocket so you have zero brokerage fees. : )

Judging by the response here I would say there is a good chance this will be in place early next month. Special thanks to our customers who utilized the old system so we could do enough volume to utilize this new program : )

Ohh, I would soo wait till Friday for no Brokerage. UPS only delivers here Thursdays, so even if it was shipped on Monday, I wouldnt get till Following Thurs earliest.

BTW, I HATE UPS LOL

Option 2! Option 2! Option 2!

Acctually, I just got off the phone from chewing out a UPS rep. $87 rokerage and other fees for a $295us item. I chew UPS out regularly. Maybe if I stress all their call people out, they realize that they NEED to reduce the BRokerage. Its legalized Extortion. Canada Post, Our Govt who loves to take our $, only charges $5 no matter what the value, for doing the paperwork(Brokerage) Why does UPS get tp charge a % of the stated Value?? Paperwork doesnt change because somehting is more expensive.........


OK, Im done ranting, off to beat my head against the wall

The charges bother me too. It only takes a short walk to Canada Customs to clear your parcel for these courier services. I wouldn't be surprised if it is done electronically. If you really want to rag on someone....ask your supplier not to use a courier service but insist on USPS or don't do business with them.

FWIW I clear customs myself with UPS, it is a pain, but worth it IMO.

How do you do that?? I have my own UPS import acct, but I think that acctually costs me MORE:cry:

I try to get the tracking number first, then call UPS and ask to "clear own". I then get a call when they have the package and the paperwork is ready.

I print off a receipt, get the paperwork from UPS, go to Canada Customs, clear it (costs $0, but you gotta pay both taxes) and then take the paperwork back to UPS and I get the package. The first time took me 1 hour, but now that I know the ropes I can do the whole thing in about 20 mins. Pretty good for saving $30 tax (kinda like tax free income).

If I don't get the tracking number and they try to deliver it, I ask to kindly refuse delivery, and that I will call to "clears own". The guys that drive know exactly what I am talking about.

Only thing is you have to live in a "port" location, which I think means that it is a location that UPS has designated as (I don't know what to call it) but the same as an airport can have you in it before you have passed customs, but the rest of the country can't have you in it, so whatever that area of the airport is called.

If you are not in a 'port' location I think you are out of luck.

Believe me , we would do it if it made sense at all. USPS has a variety of issues from both customer and business standpoints. We are trying to find a way to let the customer have the best of both worlds.

1) USPS often charges more for postage than other services but the low brokerage fees make up for this. If there are no brokerage fees (like in option 2) it simply costs more.

2) USPS's tracking is next to worthless. Most the time it only says it left here and then updates that it has been delivered. This is no help when you are trying to figure out when a package is going to arrive. It also doesn't help when the package got held by customs and it has been two weeks with no delivery ...

3) Our experience is USPS is really unreliable. One shipment will arrive really fast and another shipped on the same day mysteriously takes three weeks. This can be pretty distressing it if is your new $500 skimmer.

4) International packages over a certain weight need to be hand delivered to a post office employee, this is typically all of our packages. Sometimes the wait there is 10 minutes and sometimes it is an hour, Most businesses simply don’t have time for this type of shinanigins.

5) the USPS’s API for integrating their shipping costs into a websites calculator is poor at best. Often results in the customer being both drastically over and under billed because of limited weight and box size options. It is also incapable of telling you that this item is to heavy or to large to be shipped with USPS

6) They also have size and weight limitations. USPS doesn’t take packages over approximately 2 cubic feet which isn’t that big and certainly doesn’t lend itself to our “bulk packaged” idea.

Well this new program was approved for us and we should be able to implement it next week or the following.

To reiterate, taxes and duties will be charged during check out and paid for when you purchase the item. There will be zero brokerage fees and your package will arrive without any charges due.

In exchange packages will be shipped every Friday. If it is important that the product arrive quickly you can choose expedited service and it will ship same day.

Awesome! I'm really pleased that you decided to do this. I'll be setting up an order soon for sure now.

Thank you!

hey man i will say #2 too im looking at buying about 100lb of your rock from you. Im currently deployed to Afghanistan and will be home soon in about the mid sept time frame.. SO i guessing that 100 lbs of rock would be over the 200 dollar mark easy and then i would just pay for the shipping and the taxes right. please let me know when you get more bigger rock in since im rebuilding my reef .. here is another question for ya what is the instructions for curing the rock. can you just put it into the tank with other rock and fill your tank with your current live stock .

or do you have to fill the rock with salt water and cure it for 4-5 weeks

I'm all for option 2 as well. Would this only apply for the under $200 orders or would it be for all orders? I just bought one of your RO/DI systems but would have spent some more money with you if I had not hit that $200 limit.

all orders : )

I am working on fixing the taxes and such on our site and it should be ready .

Option 2 is the way to go, but is there a way to NOT use UPS. I've have 10 or packaged delivered by them from the US and Canada and not ONCE (I'm not kidding here) NOT ONCE in those 10 delivers have things gone correctly.

-I've heard it all, no one was home (when I was all day).

-The address doesn't exist (WHAT?!)

-Oh, sorry, I know this was direct overnight, but we accidentally put it on a train to Winnipeg (this was on an order of live rock from BC… Yeah…)

-The driver couldn’t’ find your buzzer number (Umm, compare the last name on the package and the names on the buzzer list at the front door – I’m on the only one with my last name in the building).

-One time I knew UPS was supposed to come that day, so I literally sat and watched the front gate for a UPS guy – then he showed up and dialed something on the buzzer system. My phone didn’t ring so I ran down just as he was ending the conversation with whoever he was talking too. He asked my why I wouldn’t buzz him in… Ummm, because you didn’t buzz me!!!! How hard is it to push four buttons?

Anyways, the list goes one… Moral of the story, I simply don’t shop from anyone that only ships UPS. I’ll pay more to use someone else.

Please offer an alternative shipping option…

(Sorry, I know this is a little off topic, but…)

Well I can say that we get very few complaints about UPS here and the few we do get are generally about the brokerage or taxes which will be resolved with this change.

If you have had an issue 10 out of ten times i would say it has something to do with the way that UPS operates in your area or a crappy employee because this certainly doesn't represent the feedback we have received from our customers.

The only other option really is the postal service . I have detailed a few times in this thread why that simply just isn't an option. We do go out of our way to fulfill our customers needs but USPS just can not be done.

On a side note I believe all Canadian UPS shipments are guaranteed on time deliveries. If they are late they will refund your shipping costs, you should call your vendor next time UPS is late since this can be a substantial refund : )

So what you’re saying is UPS is fine, just not in Edmonton… Or Nanaimo (according to Christy). Are these valuable markets to you as a business owner? If they aren’t fine, I can appreciate that they are small markets.

There is no other option – even for an extra charge? There are only two couriers in your part of Minnesota? No FedEx, no DHL, no nothing? It’s very possible that in Golden Valley you are really limited as to whom you can ship with, it is just a shame that I’m excluded from your client base as a result; you are a quality on-line retailer with very competitive pricing.

Yes they are. They are guaranteed to be delivered on the expected date of delivery. So if the package is supposed to come Monday, and you’re not home Monday, the new delivery date is set as Tuesday, and they try again. Fine.

So, if, say UPS says that the address doesn’t exist (I’d like to point out I live on the main downtown drag (Jasper Ave.) in Edmonton, not some back road), they call you, and bump the delivery date a day. If they put the package on a train to Winnipeg by accident, the new delivery date is postponed. I’d like to reiterate that this was a LIVE shipment, sent “Guaranteed next day by noon”. When I asked what “Guaranteed next day by noon” service meant, they told me that you get priority, and they guarantee to try to do everything in their power to make that happen – but sometimes “external” circumstances (apparently putting a box on a train is an external circumstance) interfere and the delivery date has to be changed.

I had arranged to take the day off of work to receive the shipment that never came, and had to later take a second day off to get the new shipment. Even if they had refunded the cost of shipping – would that have really made a difference?

In this particular situation, the retailer re-shipped a new batch of rock (Air Canada this time) and had to deal with UPS to be compensated for loss of the first shipment. I don’t know how it ended.

In all my troubles, not ONCE have I been refunded a penny - my packages were always delivered “on time”.

All I’m really trying to say is that we live in a world of choice. We all choose to keep fish tanks, and choose the products we use and buy. Please give us the option to choose our couriers – if it is at an extra cost to the buyer that is their choice.

If it’s not possible, it’s not possible, you sound like you have done your homework on this matter. It’s just too bad because it is a lose-lose situation for both you and I.

I really don’t mean to come off as crass or aggressive, it is just a very frustrating situation. Thank you reading, and taking the time to listen to your customers.

-Paul

wow
 

This is great news! I just recieved an order from you guys a couple of days ago - and was rather taken aback at the cost of duty/gst. GST - I understand - we all have to pay taxes - but the amount of duty was a bit of a surprise. (order was over $200 - and the reasoning UPS gave me why it was so much more than $10 was a total farce)

I remain very impressed with the service you guys provide and the committment to your clients. Well done!!!! And THANKS ! I'll be sure to place more orders from you in the future.

It is our sincere desire to end these "surprises" : )

I hope to get this done by the end of the weekend so we can start this next week but my list of things to do is really long : )

We try extremely hard to serve every ones needs as best we can and no customer group is to small . This shows in the fact that Canadian orders make up maybe 3-4% of our volume yet we are in constant negotiations with our shipping provider so we can offer unique services like this one where brokerage fees are reduced to the point that we can pay them for you and you have zero brokerage fees.

Here in the united states UPS has provided us an incredible service and they are our shipping partner. The only reason they will even speak to us on programs like this is because we do all of our domestic volume with them. In the US DHL is a total joke, there is no way we could possibly use them . Fed ex is really the same as UPS here but they don't have any programs to offer us that would reduce the brokerage fees and unless we did all of our domestic shipments with them the rates would be ridiculous.

We do value you telling us experiences like you have had and take this into consideration. This goes in conjunction with the experiences reported to us by the customers who have ordered from us. Complaints are very rare if you disregard the issues with understanding taxes duties and brokerage fees which this program completely solves.

This is a quote from a response i made earlier on why we are unable to offer the post office service.

Trust me when i say we would use the post office if there was absolutely any way it could be done without headaches like these. Instead we do everything we can possibly do to make the alternatives as affordable and practical as possible.