Opinions on angels in a reef
 

I have an Ebli and a Bi colour on hold to put in my reef tank, I was just curious as to what you folks think of them in a reef, I know some people say it is a recipe for disaster but no one seems to have first hand experience with the bad side of keeping them.
I've got a 90 gallon reef, Xenia, Anthelia, Montipora, Star Polyps and shrooms etc....

From what I have heard it is not a good idea to have two Angels in the same tank. Additionally the Bicolor is considered hard to keep alive. I myself have a Lemonpeel. He is arguably one of the nicest fish I have had. The only thing he ever touched was some zoanthids that came on a rock with Yellow Polyps. He ate those the first day I brought him home. They must have looked familiar, but that is all he has touched. :D

Thanks for the input, my understanding is that angels can be aggressive to one another if they look similar, being as these two are very different I'm hoping they will be okay. I am adding them both at the same time as well so one wont have had an oppourtunity to have established a territory.

I have an African Flameback (pygmy) & a Regal Angel, no problems at all, they get along great, and most of all, they don't bother the corals.

Good luck! I hade a flame angel for years with no problems... until he died. Then I tried a singapore queen angel, Koran Angel, and 2 more flame angels. Not all at the same time mind you, but I had to rip apart my 90 to get the little trouble makers out every time. Ill never try an angel again.

I take care of a few reefs with dwarf angels ( African flameback and Golden angels ) in them and have had no problems with them.

Years ago I had a bicolour in my own reef and it would not leave my clams alone.

The only angel I have in my own reef now is an Argi and he doesn't bother anything.

At work we put a lemon peel in a display reef and it killed a very large Derasa clam in about 2 days. Before we knew what was going on the clam was too far gone to save. It had been in the tank for a long time before the angel was introduced. Lemon peels are supposed to be one of the riskiest to try in a reef tank, but, like rcipema has just said his is a great fish. When you put an angel in your tank you never know what you are going to get.

I removed a potter's angel when it began taking exploratory nips of my clam. They are supposed to be one of the least likely to be a problem in a reef. Hindsight; I would have left it in a little longer to be sure because I haven't seen one as nice since. I have a coral beauty in my reef right now with no problems as yet although there are times when my frogspawn and hammer close just one branch and it makes me wonder a little. Marc, keeps a majestic in his reef and as long as it is well fed it leaves his corals and clams alone. The majestic is a lot more apt to chew on your corals than the centropyge spp. so like Dale says; your mileage may vary.[/i]

I put in an Ebli, so far so good, it is leaving my xenia and anthellia alone as well as my star polyps I found one more blue legged hermit crab and I found it doing exactly what they have all been doing, eating my Montipora digitalis, I had 20 of the little buggers and they all seem to have a taste for the Monti....

I try a lot of them flame beauty potter majaestic emperator all of them develop a taste for someting in the reef some even after 1 year witout any problem

No more angel in my reef :(

I was going to vote in this one and it has been bugging me for days.. there shoudl be a "Maby" :wink: I have a flame angel and it has been a perfect little fish. It has not touched anything, although I wish it would eat my psyo polyps :roll:, it did take a taste of my brain but nothing ever came of it and no harm was done.. I think it was just being like my tang and perswaiding it to release some algae for them to eat.

Steve

Hello all,
Oh noooooo!! :( another long winded answer from me!!!! oh well.

I voted no, because I agree there should be a maybe vote. Most Angels will pick. Sometimes even the ones they say shouldn't,... do. Unfortunately Angels don't read books that tell them what to eat!!


First off I would suggest you reconsider your purchase. Don't worry there are plenty more fish, and you will see them again if you change your mind. You want Angels?
How about the Genicanthus family? All are plankton feeders, very peaceful,sexualy dimorphic ( males differ from females) can be kept in harems and reasonably priced.
May I suggest:
Genicanthus caudovittatus-Zebra Angelfish
Genicanthus melanospilos-Black-spot Angelfish(female often mis identified as Japanese swallowtail Angel) Female regularly imported
Genicanthus lamarck- Lamarck's Angelfish-Regularly imported
Genicanthus watanabei-Watanabe's Angelfish
Genicanthus semifasciatus-Japanese swallow

They will all feed on brine and frozen mysids.

Back to the question:
Heavy feeding often reduces nipping and sampling but is not a great option in a reef tank.

rather than babble on I will qoute(edited) Scott Michael, he's more interesting than me anyways........

"If one examines the natural diets of the Centropyge spp.it would appear the threat to invertabrates would be minimal. But most of these angelfishes do feed on detritusand coralslime falls into this catagory.While pygmy angelfishes usually do not feed directly on coral polyps, they will graze on the slime they exude. "
This includes:
Elegance coral-Catalaphyllia jardinei
Open Brain- Trachyphyllia geoffroyi
Carpet Brain/Tooth Corals- Lobophyllia spp.
Meat/Doughnut/Crater Corals- Cynarina spp.
Zoanthids

"The slime on tridacnid clam mantles is also a food source for pygmy angels."
"Some pygmy angels will also nip at the oral disc of anemones, feed on their feces, or even eat dying corals or anemones."

Often there is a guiltly angelfish to blame if your featherdusters/christmas tree worms are being nipped at. Especially if you see discarded radioles
(fans)on the bottom.

Scott goes on to mention:"As far as their predilection to damage sessil invertabrates there seem to be trends within the various pygmy angelfish species but there is also a considerable degree of individual variation."

Scott's recommendation's
"Centropyge argi can often be kept with most stony and soft corals" -some exceptions.

Fisher's Angelfish- Centropyge fisheri
White tailed Angelfish-Centropyge flavicauda
Multibarred Angelfish - Centropyge multifasciata
Cherubfish-Centropyge argi
Flameback Pygmy Angelfish- Centropyge aurantonota
Golden Pygmy Angel- Centropyge aurantia



Highest "picking" risks
Lemonpeel Angel-Centropyge flavissima"Most Lemonpeel angelfishare a real threat to corals and should not be placed in the reef aquarium."
Bicolor- Centropyge bicolor
Keyhole- Centropyge tibicen
Colin's Pygmy Angel- Centropyge colini
He also mentions Coral Beauty- Centropyge bispinosa but my experience
has been borderline with them.

As far as two angels in the same tank, yes if there is enough hiding places.
More information on sexing the Centropyge family is available all the time and an experienced aquarist will be able to do the necessary research to avoid tank battles. I have witnessed several large reefs with two of the same pygmys together(Usually added at the same time).



My two cents: Don't add an angel unless you are willing to take your reef apart to remove them, or sacrifice a coral.

There are many, many fabulous fish that are totally reef safe, colorful,and hardy. Maybe switch them for your angels on that wishlist and breath a sigh of relief........

Happy reef keeping!
8)

Thanks everyone for the input, it is much valued and respected.

Well the Ebli is now a resident in my refugium soon to go back to the pest store, ... (no spelling error). Although a beautiful fish I found him/her snacking on my Monti polyps, soooooo all the coral came out, all the LR came out.. and I finally caught him.

Will I try another angel?... probably not, unless I can find an easier way to catch them.

no problems with my flame angel. I've got everything: lps, sps, softies, clams.

So my suspicions were correct. You are brainles :P That was a joke, please, I just could not leave it alone. :D :D :D :D

lol,

It can be frustrating looking for the residents to make a perfect reef tank. I am now thinking of getting a small school of antius, 5 or so.... maybe a couple Common Clown fish.... any suggestions?? Its a 90 gallon, 20 gallon sump and a 44 gallon refugium, SPS LPS and softies, star polyps, shrooms and a few small anemones, Two Firefish, Two Coris wrasse's, a solaris blenny (lawnmower) and Two blue side wrasse's

i too have been looking for some suitable anthias...
here is the problems i have run into...
most anthias that are available reach a size of 4-5"...a tad bigger than what i would like...preferable a max size of 3-4" is what i would like...
they will require alot of frequent feedings...so you will have to increase your tank maintenance to ensure good water quality...a school of anthias will require alittle bit of an investment...your gonna pay atleast ~$20/per fish at its cheapest...usually its hard to find a single healthy specimen when they come in, let alone a healthy school of them...in a 4' tank...maybe a pair (are pairs Ok together?) or a solitaire anthia would be nice.

as to the original question...dwarf angels...

i have a multibar for a couple months now with no problems...*knock on wood*

and i had an african flameback before that, with no problems, except for the fact that it went carpet surfing :cry:

but again, these types of fish are generally hit or miss with their behaviour and compatibility with various corals.

HTH

Shao, have you thought of a harem of flasher wrasses? Very similar to the anthias in many ways without the heavy aggression and in a smaller package. Finding a suitable harem would be the difficulty.

hey troy,
never really thought about them...
sounds alot more suitable than my anthias idea...
now i have a mission!! :D

I like that idea too, maybe get some more of these blue sided faery wrasse's..... thats a fine idea....

BCOG, just keep in mind the flasher wrasses and the fairy wrasses are different and some of the fairies get quite big (~5").

Paracheilinus spp.. These are the ones I was talking about. I kept one for a little while and it jumped out of a mostly covered tank. They are easily spooked and tank mates have to be chosen with this in mind. The one I had absolutely freaked when the yellow tang was added. We thought it had hidden in the rockwork. I'd have the harem in place before adding other fish unless they're really docile.

I did a few hours searching last night on google, I think I will look into the Paracheilinus lineopunctatus, carpenteri, falvianalis or mccoskeri, all are smallish, (under 3 1/2 inches) and very colourful.

The fish I have are all pretty docile and I have a glass cover for the tank, although I am not using it at the time.

Very cool, we had P. filamentosus. It was weird how badly the tang freaked that fish out considering it (the tang) wasn't the least bit aggressive.