New Vancouver area store!
 

Hey guys & girls,
Would you choose to purchase at a very strong ecologically/environmentally conscious store over one that isn't?

It would consist of supplying and encouraging a large majority of aquacultured corals and fish whenever possible in addition to everything down to the plastic bags used being made of bio-degradeable material etc. A store credit system in place for returning old filters and equipment that you would otherwise throw out.

Would this type of store have more appeal to you over other stores even if you had to go slightly out of your way?

Please vote and add any input!
Thanks

Yeah this would definitely appeal to me, although I would hope the these, or some, could be shipped.

I'm mostly interested in the aquacultured items, and captive bred fish.

Count Me IN
 

I would love to be able to shop at a store that was conscious of the environmental and ecological concerns! I think most people would be.

Bye, keana

Truthfully, after availability, my wallet points me where to go.

Absolutely, without a doubt.

Environmentally friendly is always good (everything helps). But realistically I wouldn't use it as a foundation to start a reef business on. Lets face it, in regards to this hobby ecologically/environmentally conscious is almost an oxymoron.

newbizz
 

i would,anything to help out our reefs.

Yes I would be interested in buying from this store.

Realistically though a store like this doesn't have a chance in hell.

Among serious hobbyists there are two stores in the Vancouver area that have a lock on the business, one more for equipment supplies and fish and the other more for corals. For casual hobbyists who don't know any better there are the mega-stores selling stuff too.

When you look at the investment of time money and effort I don't think it is worthwhile opening a new reef store in the Vancouver area. It can only lead to grief. Sorry I don't want to sound discouraging but think up another business plan.

This thread makes me wonder what my tank's carbon footprint is. :confused:

I would have to say 90% of the stores out there are already this way. It is far easlier to get corals from a farm than wild caught. I'd have to say the current stores do a good job already.
It's all about demand.

J

I don't think that the existing stores are doing a good enough job of explaining WHERE their items come from and HOW they are obtained. I suspect that they aren't proud of it, or don't know for sure and therefore don't talk about it much.

To me it seems that there just isn't enough of a supply of bright and exotic corals. Anything really nice that comes in will be bought relatively quickly regardless of price or source.

Well most of what I see are aquacultured corals. Fish on the other hand is a different story.

You can ask and LFS They know where they get them. It kinda easy to tell the aquacultures corals because of the plugs.

J

This is a good point...Why is there not one store that you can go to for both supplies and livestock. Im not sure which two stores you mean for sure but I would agree that NO store in vancouver is GREAT. Just a few good ones. I lived in Florida for a while and I think I got spoiled! If someone opened a store in Vancouver based on how a few of the great shops down there are, it would be amazing! And Im not talking about the "big" chain stores in Florida, I shopped at a smaller one that would blow any shop in Vancouver out of the water.

To say that opening a reef shop in Vancouver would be a failure is a joke. You can ALWAYS do things better than the competition. I think thats one problem with shops in Vancouver, not enough competition...

But owning and running a store in Florida, with its coral reefs, Gulf of Mexico, etc., would have its obvious advantages. That's like comparing the skiing in North Carolina with Whistler and Fernie.

I think the GVRD is spoiled rotten when it comes to good LFS we don't know how good we have it.
Now I'm only comparing stores in Canada and not in the southern US. But Really Give me a break even stores I would consider crappy are good when compared to stores outside the GVRD. Plus look at the prices some are paying for salt in TO

J

I second that , IF we would be friendly to our planet we would not have captive animals who are on leash and or kept in confined environment living in their own urine and feces mix

Yes, we are seriously spoiled with decent to good LFS that stock sw livestock in the GVRD. There are at least 4 fairly major coral/marine fish stores & five small ones that do most if not all their biz in sw. Compared to Calgary or Edmonton or anywhere else, we have a lot of choice & decent prices. If I didn't live around here, I doubt I would have gotten into this addiction due to the high cost.

Anthony

so just outta curiosity, if you feel so strongly about this, i gotta ask why is it that you choose such a morally despicable hobby?

that would be great... but do it in williams lake so i dont have to go to Van once a month to stock up!!!!

I would love going to a store that had these practises! Now, getting one in Alberta would be even better!

I am not sure how to answer that question, but guilty for sure...:redface:

Great feedback everyone.... Keep'em coming! Your opinions are valued.

Fair enough, thats a good point. Im not just talking about livestock though, where there was a clear advantage to being in the southern us, Im also talking dry goods. More competitive brings lower prices. Plus WAY more products to choose from.

If you are only comparing stores in vancouver to the rest of Canada, then yes, its amazing. But compare it parts of the US (Florida) and it really is not.

I guess to be fair too though, the other big difference being in Florida and here is being able to go to huge outdoor places to buy Aquacultured LR for $2-3 a lb. As well as corals from 10,000G vats :) Thats just not really an option here because of weather. A lot of these are outdoors.

The environmental angle is noble but if you 're looking to break into the Canadian reef market I would concentrate on online sales. Yeah I know every store has a web page but the only one that seems to put much effort into it is J&L. They'll update their new/noteworthy page once or twice a week. The others I deal with update less than once a month. It's not a criticism of the existing stores. They unload their livegoods without exploiting web possibilities, good for them. But IMO it is a ripe market that will be filled sooner or later.

Your right on with this one! I think in Canada, web sales are very important, even just based on the geography of our large country and how it is populated. There are many small town reefers who have no choice but to buy online and that can be a big market...especially if you cater some of your website and shipping to them.

I personally believe that a new store that offers the best dry goods and livestock is much needed in Vancouver. Some of the existing stores have decent corals but their dry goods selection is not that great. While
there are other stores that have decent selection of dry goods but the livestock is not great. Most the LFS's websites are not very useful as these are not updateded on a regular basis, perhaps the only one is the J$L website.

I would definitely support a new LFS that offers both, great livestock and dry goods. Am not married to any of the existing LFS so why not supporting a new one that cares about the environment.

Cheers

The more I sit here and think about it, I can't believe anyone thinks it would be a bad idea. Anything can always be done better. Plus its great for us! More stores the better, more competitive and better selection hopefully. As YVR says, if there was one store that could "get it all together", I bet it would do VERY well. Sounds like a few people here a very "married" to a few stores though.

I have noticed that one store is like "the good ol' boys club" when certain customers are in. I always find that to be the worst trait a store can have. EVERY customer is as important as each other. I have been in a certain store on more than one occasion where its hard to get help because of this.

Trust me. Even those who say it would be hard to make a go of it as a new coral/sw LFS would be in there during opening day and if the prices & selection are good, they would become regular customers.

The major drawback I see is that there is a finite supply of aquacultured corals & hobbyist-grown frags, so getting enough to keep a store stocked with colourful corals will be a challenge.

Anthony

Sorry that was me.
I tend to get all the staff in trouble.

J

Hahaha! No I know for sure it wasn't you:wink:

I think everyone knows what I mean though about getting much better service if you become buddies with the guys working there. Thats just not me though, great guys but Im not there to chat, just buy!

Anthony also has a great point about how if the prices were low and product was right, most people would be there!

Any step towards a more eco=friendly tank is welcome in my opinion. The only problem being very few fish are captively bred. Corals more so, but few fish are. If they had a buy-back trade program with reefers out there with fish and corals it would be beneficial. I think education would have to be an important part of the mix though. For instance, convinve people to buy mostly base rock and seed with some liverock or preferably use aquacultured liverock. It takes time and its more trouble (sometimes) but if everyone used 1/4 to a 1/2 less wild stuff the better. It can only benefit in the long run. Maybe buy liverock from local reefers going out of business so to speak. but it cheap (not to cheap as to not make a profit) then sell it back say 50-75 cents to a dollar more a pound. The problem with eco-friendly is for the first little bit at least it is more expensive, and in a hobby that most i think would consider a luxury hobby, price goes a long way. I do for instance pay more for eco-friendly or go out of my way when I can, but alas not always....having ideals in this day and age is quite expensive.

Eco friendly idea
 

I have been wondering about how us hobbiests could be less intrusive on the wild livestock myself.

I have also been wondering (and I know the retailers won't like this at all) if we were all to work together as a co-op somehow and have some kind of Non-profit store that could support itself including staff, rent maitenence and the other big ones it takes to operaate a for profit business.


Things to consider would be:

Monthly overhead to operate... how does the lease obligation get met every month.

Who would be the Co-op Manager. (Maybe Anthony would be happy to covert his entire operation into the Grand Co-op for a monthly salary) Just kidding Anthony.

If this was logistically viable... could it operate with low enough prices to make it worth while. Some retailers may only getting 20% average margin.

If they are making 100% margin then it may make sense.

The more probable solution is to operate a consignment (commision) type of exchange that was connected all through out NA via Can Reef type of Board and physical locations and a portion of the proceeds could go into supporting safe collection type of organisations.

For this to work a large network of retailers would have to be willing to take on a consignment type of business in their existing location. This would mean seperate quarantine facicilties and they may not be willing to sign up to such a program.

There has to be a way though.




Cash reserves to make wholesale purchases

I would, unless the prices were outrageously high. But if the prices were within my budget, id shop at a store like that first. Even if the prices are a bit higher than reef harvested livestock.