Any Vegetarians?
 

Two days ago, I decided to stop eating meat for ethical reasons. If there are any vegetarians out there, I would be grateful for any suggestions, tips, recipes, etc. that you might offer.

Thanks!

It depends if you will be a strict vegetarian, or if you will allow yourself milk and eggs, and if you will allow yourself fish or not.

One issue is protein. If you will allow yourself fish, milk, and eggs then that is easy. Otherwise you are looking at tofu, beans, nuts, peanut butter, or soy milk.

A sub-issue with proteins is that meats supply all the amino acids (building blocks of proteins) that you need. Other sources of protein for example beans may not have the full range of amino acids that meats have. Certain amino acids are called essential amino acids, that means that your body cannot synthesize them and has to get them from dietary sources. You can avoid this problem by eating different protein sources each of which has the amino acids that the other is missing. It has been many years since I looked at this so you might want to check this information with a dietician.

Another issue with the vegetarian diet is iron. Meats are a good source of iron. Iron can be found in some vegetables (such as spinach) and some fruits. Women particularly may become iron deficient without meat in their diet. An iron supplement may be a good idea for women who are vegetarian.

Another issue is vitamins. Fruits and vegetables may be rich in certain vitamins. Other vitamins may be lacking in the vegetarian diet. For example vitamin B12 is mostly found in meat, milk and eggs. Vitamin D is found mostly in dairy products.

Overall if you are considering vegetarianism long term here is some advice:

1. See a dietician to help build a balanced diet plan.
2. Consider a once-a-day generic multivitamin.
3. Consider an iron supplement (Ferrous Sulfate 300 mg one tablet daily) if you are a female
4. Ask your doctor to check your hemoglobin and ferritin (a test of iron stores in your body) once a year if you are a female.
5. You will probably live longer and healthier than meat-eaters. This can have a downside because you will get depressed when you are 90 and all your friends have died when they were seventy.

Good luck.

I agree with most of what trilinearmipmap has posted but I must disagree with the protein/amino acid commentary. Nothing, barring eggs and meat and such, has the full range of all amino acids that we need. However most plants matter that we consume has a lot of them and pretty much all of them have most of them in varying quantities. The point im trying to get at is that so long as you take in a VARIED diet of veg, you should be absolutely fine.

protein and amino acids are analogous... they are essentially the same thing. amino acids make up protein, so if you have the amino acids, you'll have all the protein you need.

vitamins may be a different story so like trilinearmipmap suggested, I would go see a dietician. If you have the right diet in the right amounts, you might not even need supplemental vitamins. Actually there was a recent study that noted that supplemental vitamin taking may actually SHORTEN your life. *shrug* let's just say that not all studies are conducted properly.

I'm a vegetarian and have been for about 7 years now, it was a hard decison to NOT make, and I've never looked back. Actually, getting into this hobby has really caused me to have to fight a lot of ethical issues, as I don't eat meat, fish, chicken - basically anything that had a mother, besides eggs (which I buy free range and it makes me feel less guilty ;))

I'll be honest in telling you that I feel better now, even with all the issues I deal with, than I did when I ate meat. And I can also tell you that I've gone through a lot of different things as far as being vegetarian is concerned, from low carb veggie when I needed to lose weight (god, that SUCKED) to standard veggie with a bit of "Milk" products here and there (milk meaning cheese ;))

Firstly - Kudos on being willing to take the plunge. It won't be easy, and because you're doing it ethically, it's going to change a TON of things.

For example:

• Becel or ANY margarine you can get from you local store - Vitamin D3 (http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/faqingredients.htm#d3 - lanolin from sheep skin)
• Yogurt - Gelatin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin - Gelatin is a protein produced by partial hydrolysis of collagen extracted from connective tissues of animals such as the domesticated bovines, porcines and equines.)
• Cheese (most) - Rennet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet - The most common source for animal-based rennet is the abomasum (fourth stomach) of slaughtered, milk-fed, newborn cowcalves. However, stomachs of other young ruminants such as goats (for goat's milk) or lamb (for ewe's milk), and pseudo-ruminants like camels (for camel's milk) are also used.)

There's lots more, and it's been a heck of a struggle.

For things like amino acids, etc. Flax is HUGE, huge. That gets all the Omega acids needed, and getting supplements is like nothing.

That's all for now, time to bed - but good on ya, and if you ever need support (and you will ;)) you've most certainly got it!!!

ah yes, that was one thing i forgot to say: good on ya! Im still a carnivore and I probably always will be, but i do applaud people like you who do this for ethical reasons.

I'm In
 

I'm a vegetarian and have been for about 7 years. Maybe about 10 in total. I tried when I was much younger and didn't do it very well. Mostly side salads and french fries... For the last 7 years I have been much better at it. It's much easier these days! Lots more products for us to buy at any grocery store and more places to eat out. I started because I have never liked the taste of meat. It tastes completely gross and sits around in your system like a dead (literally dead) weight. My favorite vegetarian is Indian Veggie, or Buddhist Vegan foods. I am not a vegan, I eat eggs and cheese but don't like milk, and no fish.
Bye, Keana

I guess I might as welll "out" myself too.
About eight years, personal ethical/spiritual reasons, my wife and kids are not.
The others have said it all; have a mixed diet, suppliment with eggs, cheese, milk, peanut butter etc... It's not that hard really.
My personal advise would be to refrain from being preachy. Nobody likes a zealot :mrgreen:

I'd like to second what Dale said. Preachy vegetarians just end up getting smacked by those who aren't. It accomplishes nothing, I'm not a pastor and there ain't no way I'm going to try and "convert" people.

I do, however, speak my mind when someone asks or speaks ignorantly about being vegetarian. Then, and ONLY then, will I get a bit more... "vocal" :)

I'd like to touch on a few other factors:

- Again with protiens, Omega 3 and 6 from Flax are very complete, and a dietician will validate that, so again - go see them if you're at all concerned.

- Be open to trying weird, weird stuff. My wife *HATED* tofu when she "joined the fold", but now she loves it. Try everything once, if you've had Sushi I'm there is little in vegetarian meals that will make you raise an eyebrow... except for Vegan cheese. My girls love it, I won't touch it with a 20 foot pole.

- It is INSANELY easy to buy veggie now. Safeway, Save-on, Superstore, etc - all of these stores have either sections, or in the case of Superstore, an entire line of vegetarian products (Superstore's PC Veggie Chilli is AWESOME)

- Look into ethnic dishes. You'll find huge selection of Indian cuisine, Mexican, Thai, etc. Lots of tastiness!

As a meat eater.....Can I ask a maybe ignorant/silly question? What would ethical reasons be...I'm just curious......And sorry Im not try to offend anyone but just dont understand.

there are ethical motivations behind many of the vegetarians and vegans due to malpractice and mistreatment of the animals that supply us with our meat. Have you ever seen the state animals are kept in and how they are treated? It is not a pretty sight.

Others just don't like the taste of meat. that simple. It's like how some people don't like fish (yes i know that's meat, it's just more common than not liking beef for example).

Still others do it for religious purposes.

I totally understand the religious reasons.....and the different religions and different kinds of meat.....maybe im not understanding being raised on a farm? I have no idea..... I am just really not understanding the ethically or morally part....again....sorry for being dumb on the subject

Not a problem - I know for me it's the killing of another living thing to eat it. It's not a necessity to survive or even thrive, and I can look towards eating other things that provide my body the same as, say, a chicken or fish would.

The "thing" that finally pushed me over the edge was deboning a salmon. I have a friend who is native, and I was able to buy a full salmon for $10. Problem is that it needed to be deboned, and also still had its head on it.

The entire process pushed me in an avenue I was already travelling, and it became clear that eating animals was not what I ever wanted to do again, if I could at all help it. I love all animals (well, maybe not spiders or mosquitos ;)) and I personally see no need to kill them for food, or have them killed for me.

Does that help a bit?

lol don't worry about it BC564. You don't have to agree, just respect them in that they have their own opinions.

imagine you're a cow for a moment. Your entire life consists of sitting crammed with other cows in a stall with the occassional roam in a field. some cows are not fed well. Many end up eating their own dung because their stalls are not cleaned out. getting branded by a red hot iron in the ass sucks. your teats hurt because you are forced to produce a ridiculously unatural amount of milk. every week or so you're hooked up to a machine that sucks the milk out of you. eventually you stop producing milk and you are moved to the slaughter house where you will be killed and sliced apart for food.

not a very pleasant story is it? I still eat meat but am still thouroughly disgusted by the practice.

sorry....nope.....I totally understand the whale hunting....and the dolphin hunting they do in Japan...(whick totally made me so mad) but then you have to think of it from their view which isnt alway easy to do.....you may not like it....but who am I to say....same as some asian cultures who eat cats or dogs or whatever......I guess really.....if we all liked fords....why would we have Chevs or imports....so many choices....

ok Justin......you made it sound totally mean.........I was in no way saying anything is wrong with being a vegetarian....I'm just trying to understand it...or how you get to the being a vegetarian....the ethical question is really the part I was and am still having a problem with understanding....maybe its my thick skull...dunno....

It's what Justin was saying, but even goes further than that.

Veal is made by trapping a baby cow so that it cannot lose its baby fat. It's then killed. Making cows "Kosher" will have a Rabbi come and cut the jugular vein of the cow, bleeding it out.

Chickens that are not free range are stuffed into boxes BARELY big enough for them to fit into. they're forced to produce endlessly and usually have no feathers due to stress.

Cows that are milked are also forced to stay pregnant, as that's the only way they produce milk.

Cows used for food are killed generally by being electrocuted or as Justin said, having their head bashed in after having a rather crappy life beforehand.

You're also getting animals pumped full of hormones and other things that will artificially make them taste better. Going organic generally sees better treatment of animals, but they still have to be killed in order to eat.

The way I see it is more the buddhist perspective. I don't need to end the life of anything in order to fill my tummy. End of story :)

But I think this is getting a SMIDGE off track, we can discuss it in another thread, but for now - Drew just needs some suggestions of things he can eat! :)

oh Justin....I just read your thread and mine again...and when I said you made it sound totally mean was in respect to the treatment of the cow.... I wasnt meaning that I thought your comment was mean.....and yes....back to the topic of what Drew can eat.....

it's okay BC, simple misunderstanding. and yes, the treatment of farm animals is generally mean.

as to what drew can eat... well are you being vegetarian (eggs, dairy, fish are allowed) or vegan (the "hardcores" lol)?

ok...but doesnt the ethics thing rule out all 3 of those....based on the conditions the animals live to produce the dairy and eggs?

ok...im going to be quiet now and just read the thread.....sorry for the way to many questions.....

BC - Never apologize, you're not asking too many questions at all. Ask more, ask 100 - If it helps gain understanding, I think it would benefit everyone!! :)

As for the different types, there's... well, a LOT.

Check here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian#Main_varieties

If you want to go to a huge extent, there's Fruitarians that basically only eat what falls off of trees or is harvested *AFTER* the fruit/nut/vegetable has been released from its source. Now THAT is hardcore! ;)

well thanks for letting me ask lots of questions....but really this is all just personal choice....and all walks of life have their own opinions as to what they eat and even how its prepared......some people feel guilty from very simple things and some people have no conscience about brutal things....but I think being raised on a farm....and an alberta farm growing your own animals for food or whatever.....does make you think differently.....its like raising your own 4H calf and keeping him groomed and well fed so that after your project is over you can take him to the auction to be sold. The kids get so used to it....and its really for the best meat....anyways...im rambling now
i just always thought that people chose to be vegetarian because of health reasons....never gave it any thought as to ethics or what is immoral...

Hey guys. Wow, and THANKS! I never expected such a response. It IS encouraging to see so many people doing this and enjoying the benefits of it.

I'll answer a few questions. First, BC564, go watch this video. It's not how all animals are treated, but it seems to be quite common. Personally, I just can't support that. BUT...it is a personal choice, and I don't blame anyone for deciding to eat meat. My family owns a huge dairy/cattle farm up near Stoney Plain, sooo....:smile:

I'm definitely not plunging into the Vegan thing. That's way too hardcore for me. First of all, I'd have to throw away all of my shoes and half my jackets. LOL. I enjoy cheese WAY too much. I will, however, only buy "free range" eggs....somehow that will ease my conscience a little bit?....maybe? I'm also going to visit the Farmer's Market this weekend and see what it has to offer. We shall see.

The jury's out on fish still. I'd love to be able to eat fish. I'll have to do some more research.

So again, thanks everyone. Keep 'em coming if you have something to say!

that video was disgusting. frightening really. I can only hope that that movie was a compilation of the lowlights of the industry and that those clips were worst case scenarios.

on a lighter note, Drew i know you're in calgary, but for any Vancouverites, here's a good seafood option. it's called oceanwise. It's basically a program headed by the Vancouver aquarium in which a bunch of restaurants agree to only serve seafood that comes from a sustainable source.

check it out...
http://www.vanaqua.org/conservation/oceanwise/

scroll down and click on "participants" for a list of participating restaurants.

Just to clarify, there were some comments about omega-3 fatty acids in relation to proteins.

Amino acids (the building blocks of protein) are completely different from fatty acids.

Both are essential in the diet. Just completely different things.

As far as the different arguments for vegetarianism, one of the best reasons is for improved health. Look around and see the epidemic of obese people having heart attacks by age 50. A vegetarian diet can be excellent for heart health.

The conditions we keep farm livestock in are appalling. I would rather see improved standards for the care of farm animals, even if it means paying more for my groceries.

i just wanted to say that a diet of meat and veg doesn't automatically mean it's more unhealthy. obesity/shortened age is a problem if you over do it on fatty stuff and trans fats and all the fast food... i could go on. of course on the other hand, being veg means that most of that crap is out of your diet anyways... a definite bonus! :lol:

the key to health is just a good well balanced diet and plenty of excercise. and a lack of other crap like smoking too for example.

ah yes - sorry about that. Good info on this page regarding finding amino acids in vegetarian dishes:

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he463w.htm

I don't really think that meat vs. veg is the critical difference there. Veggies are more likely to eat foods made from whole, fresh ingredients instead of over processed packaged stuff. There's a pretty clear line between meat and McMeat in my view. The amount of hormone and and antibiotics in that nice CO2 packed steak at the grocery store is enough to make anyone queasy.

I flirted with this too when I was a bit younger. I blame my German roots for my failure, there's something about a good sausage that brings a tear to my eye. The thing that I found tough was the difference between lifestyle change and "diet". Just because you ate some bacon yesterday doesn't mean you may as well have a burger today. If it's really a lifestyle change you are after take it one day at a time and let it happen slowly.

You can be healthy eating a vegetarian diet. It's just harder (significantly) then it is for us omnivorous types.

A personal note... _ALL_ of the vegetarians I know are either unhealthy or fat. I think the problem is that junk food is so readily accessible and without proper meal planning with restricted food options... you tend to grab that junk food quite often simply because it's easy. It's funny that the vegetarians I know (and I know a few) rarely seem to eat veggies - except my aunt, who is buddhist. But then she barely eats overall and is the only skinny vegetarian I know (the rest are fat while she is unhealthy and can't even go on a long walk due to no energy).

I also think that a lot of people have a big problem eating a diet high in fat and carb's. I don't know the exact science behind it, so I don't want to spread misinformation. But I do think that people who eat high fat high carb diets tend to become fat.

How about whey protein powder for supplementation? Check out places like proteinfactory.com that allow you to customise your protein powder if you aren't comfortable with protein coming from milk (whey, casein, etc.) - they have egg and possibly other protein blends available. I am sure other sources are available.

If I were to go vegetarian, I would track my calorie intake and ensure I was getting enough protein and healthy fats/vitamins etc. I am no vegetarian, but I like to workout and keep some idea of what I eat, so I currently use fitday.com to track my dietary habits. I know there are better online tools available, but I have been using fitday for years and wouldn't want to lose the data.

I would like to spend my food budget on more ethically treated food - organically farmed foods, grass fed beef, honestly free range chickens etc. but can't afford it.

I have a list of sites in BC where you can buy food direct from farmers, but most want you to buy in sides of beef, which are for me too much to store... and I wouldn't know how to properly cut it up etc... Being in BC and you being in Alberta, I don't think any of my links would help you... although a quick google search would probably net you some good farms to purchase from in Alberta.

Best of luck with the new lifestyle!

Interesting points to mention - I myself am overweight, and have been - as is my wife. I ws before I started becoming vegetarian, but due to the fact that with being vegetarian, carbohydrates are much more readily available (pasta, breads, etc)

The factor to look at is pretty simple. I'm overweight and a bit unhealthy as a vegetarian, but the person next to me is overweight and unhealthy as a omnivore. OR, is not overweight but consumes very high amounts of bad cholesterol, fats, hormones from meat, etc.

However I do eat my fair share of vegetables, fruits, etc - but I unfortunately know few other vegetarians.

Anyway - I think the point I'm trying to get across is that even if someone is overweight, it doesn't mean they're unhealthy, just as if someone is skinny it doesn't mean they're healthy.

It'd the total package that counts and matters in the end. I don't exercise enough, I know that- however if I did exercise a bit more, even being a bit overweight, I'd still be healthy :)

Yeah, Nick. Full-figured. Husky. That's us...lol.

I say, work what your mama gave you :mrgreen:

Hey All!

Didn't mean to offend anyone. I myself haven't managed to lift a weight for nearly 5 months now. I've put on 3lbs... all fat and I am sure I've lost a ton of my muscle and replaced it with fat...

IMO and the opinion of my doctor, carrying any excess fat (15%bf and above for men, 20% and above for women) is unhealthy. Regardless of whether you take vitamins or eat well (but just eat too much) or exercise or what have you. That excess weight leads to higher risk factors for all sorts of things, diabetes, heart disease etc.

I think one of the big problems that vegetarians face is getting enough protein... and then people hear that peanut butter is a good source of protein. Ummm. Nuts are great and healthy (in small amounts). But as a source of quality FAT not protein.

1 tablespoon peanut butter (organic):
Total Calories: 95
Fat: 8 73 75%
Sat: 2 15 15%
Poly: 2 20 20%
Mono: 4 35 36%
Carbs: 3 9 9%
Fiber: 1 0 0%
Protein: 4 16 16%

Sorry, thats 75% of calories from fat, 36% of the overall calories being from mono fats (good ones)... 4 grams of protein? IMO, it's not a protein source.

Personally, I'll risk hormones in my meat and stay thin but that's because I know if I gave up meat, I'd eat a TON more carbs to stay full and that would mean I'd be consuming a ton more calories and I'd get fat.

Anyways, getting sidetracked - no one likes someone preaching to them, regardless of subject matter. But... fat is fat is fat :) Being fat is bad mmmkay? Whether you are a vegetarian or not. :)

As I said before, good luck with the lifestyle change and hopefully you'll do your research and find a good, healthy diet you can live with.

Hey, I hear what you're saying.

I ate a hell of a lot of carbs before, too, so I really don't see how that will change much for me! I'm going to try to avoid anything in excess and eat as many veggies (to compose the majority of my diet) as I can.

:lol: