New Biodenitrator
 

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...denitrator.jpg

Woohoo! Just got it today from an eBay deal - $200...

After getting my nitrates down to 20ppm with 200g worth of water changes over the past few weeks, I will run this on a rubbermaid with old tank water in it until I detect no more nitrites being produced... I'll keep everyone posted. If anyone has had one of these or any experience with one, your thoughts would be appreciated!

is that a sulphur denit. reactor?

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

Yup it is. I like to keep lots of fish AND SPS... not a great combo when trying to keep nitrates low...

Cool - let us know how it works for you.

how much does one of those cost new?

Cheers,
Vic[veng68]

A whole hell of a lot more than I would pay! haha... I've seen 'em from $380 all the way up to $500+... it's just a Korralin 1501 Ca++ Reactor with sulfur media and crushed coral... I was thinking about making one, but for $200 I couldn't go wrong...

Why run it on a rubbermaid?? Are sort of not-quite-trusting the idea just yet?

I'd just run it on the system, what the heck. If you've got nitrates now, go for it!

I was seriously tempted on one of these too, I still sorta am for maybe a tank down the road. Let us know whatcha think of it!

Tony,

I'm thinking of running it in a rubbermaid until the nitrite level stops reading just because I've recently dropped my nitrates doing water changes and my corals are responding like never before, so I don't want to screw that up.

These things will produce nitrites and nitrates for the first 10 - 21 days so I just want to cycle it on a body of water containing no livestock but with nitrates like my old tank water... this will also give me an opportunity to learn how to dial it in. I have no doubts that it will work when cycled & dialed in, I've read some really encouraging stuff in about 8 different languages on these things.. lol

I haven't hear much about sulpher denitrators, do you have any good links on how it works and what is taking place during the process?

Steve

I am giving some serious thought to getting one of the Zeovit systems. They are using them at Gold Aquariums with some success. I think it is a similar principle.

Steve,

Think of a calcium reactor that instead of had calcium based media, but sulfur based media. Get a slow enough flow through the media, the anoxic zone will host the bacteria responsible for reducing nitrates, and viola, a denitrator for your system.

Here's a blurb Delbeek wrote up on sulfur based denitrators a while ago for AFM:
http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquarium...id=3802&search

There are also several threads on them over at RC of course, if you wanted to poke around over there.

Greg, I'm not familiar enough with Zeovit to comment whether it's a similar process or not. My gut instinct tells me it's different though, because I thought Zeovit was supposed to be a fairly expensive (as in, ongoing expenses) methodology, including dosing several things, whereas a sulfur denitrator is in the same "set and forget" category as a calcium reactor -- i.e., a perhaps hefty one-time/initial cost, but the ongoing costs are minimal. But again, I'm basing this on ignorance of the Zeovit philosophy so maybe someone who knows the details can comment on whether it's similar or not.

Steve,

As you can see by Tony's response and Christy's link, (which is an excerpt from Sprung & Delbeek's Vol 3.), their use has been being studied since 1991. They require a break in period while the anoxic bacteria colonize and feed on the sulfur during which nitrites are actually produced. After the initial break in period, they will produce effluent low in nitrates, but rich in sulfate and acidic. This effluent is then run through a calcerous substrate which binds some of the sulfate and consumes some of the acid finally returning to the tank with slightly higher calcium & alkalinity values.

That this system works to consume nitrates isn't in dispute, but there are arguments over how much calcium and alkalinity are replenished. Sulfate is also a byproduct of this system, but I have not been able to find anyone who has noticed this to be a problem. Most people offset sulfate buildup with 20% or so monthly water changes which would be a hell of a lot cheaper than the 25% weekly I have been going through to keep my nitrates down. Most people report that the need for water changes is much less and that the significant nitrate reduction does nothing but promote better system health.

The units themselves are ridiculously expensive for what you get. I was going to DIY until I ran across this one on eBay, but if I was going to need a bigger one I would definitely build one myself. It's simply a reverse flow Calcium reactor you feed from the bottom, the effluent coming out the top. Sulfur beads can be had at a winemaking store for under $5/kg and the calcerous material can be any pebble sized calcium carbonate.

I'm doing another water change tonight to get some nitrate laden water from my tank and get this thing fired up... hopefully when I get back from holidays it will be reading zero and I can put it in the system. I will keep everyone posted. :mrgreen:

Oh ya... from what I've read, ZEOvit kinda works on the same principle but sans sulfur and you have to supply a regular carbon based food source... the pros of ZEOvit are that some trace elements are supplied using this method, but I didn't go too far in depth... I think Ruth was using ZEOvit so she may be able to tell us more.....

Hey! *I* provided the link first! Now my feelings are hurt. :p And it's a Q&A from his moonlighting at Aquarium Fish Magazine, September 2004 issue (I have the printed article). He may have talked about them in Vol 3 as well, but I doubt it's in a Q&A format there.

I stand corrected Tony - That Q&A actually formed the basis for what is written in Vol 3, which goes into much greater detail than anything I was able to find online.

Oh, my apologies for not giving credit where due...

THANKS FOR THE LINK TONY!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

They have a couple articles on the subject in FAMA (just can't find it right now)

Also check out this article:
http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePa...Denitrator.htm

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

ok I kinda figured thats how it worked but don't you need darkness for anoxic bacteria? or just low O2?

Steve

Allrighty then! I promised updates as soon as I had any...

I did a water change last weekend and tank nitrates were at 20+ ppm ...

I took 20g of old water to seed the reactor outside the system, and set it at a steady drip rate, actual volume not determined as of yet...

Hooked up the reactor Tuesday and so far in 5 days nitrates are already down to <10ppm... I wasn't expecting any change so quickly... Gotta get a nitrite test kit to see if there are any... if not, I'll be plumbing this little godsend into the main system! :mrgreen: Maybe I CAN keep my fish and corals after all! :biggrin:

Steve - ANoxic = sans oxygen... light plays no part in that.

ya I figured that out but it is used wrong..

anoxic is water with no dissolved O2, not to be used for a description of a organism. when talking about bacteria (or an organism) that lives in low or no O2 levels we should use Anaerobic, which means without oxygen. More specifically, it refers to occurring or living without oxygen present.

thats why it has always confused me when people use the anoxic bacteria term as it is not quite right and throws me off.

Steve

Allrighty folks... checked the test water today and it reads ZERO... much quicker than I had even hoped... this puppy is getting plumbed in to the main system tonight, I'm going to run the effluent through my calcium reactor that I haven't been using as well. One bonus is that I have 20g of water that I removed 2 weeks ago from the main system that I can now use again! Woohoo for the salt bill! :biggrin:

Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress with this little gadget reeferaddict.
I would test all parameters of the "old" water before you re-use it though as in addition to removing nitrates etc. another reason for doing water changes is to replenish some of the other "goodies" like calcium/mg/alk/trace minerals etc. that our organisms use up.

Well folks - it works. 0ppm and holding steady even with my livestock load and feeding regimen. Corals have taken to colouring up and definitely an increase in growth. Water changes have been cut down to 10% or so every couple of weeks and things are looking very vibrant and healthy. The unit was also easy to set up, just gotta keep an eye on the outflow & make sure it's running or you get that wonderful house clearing rotten egg smell... :mrgreen: Definitely worth the $200 I spent on eBay for it... YAY!

You were supposed to say "it sucks" so that I wouldn't want one. Thanks a lot! One more thing for me to obsess about and try to figure out how to buy one and get it home without the boss noticing.

Seriously -- very cool info. And yes, now I really do want one. :)

how tall and what diamiter is that thing?

Steve

It's not that big Steve... I believe the Acrylic is 4 or 5 inches in diameter and it's about 18 inches tall... it's a Korralin 1501 Calcium Reactor with sulfur and aragonite media in it. Now that I have one and see how it works I wouldn't hesitate to build my own in the future...

So what size pump runs it? and where do you get replacement media? :biggrin:
Ive read mixed reviews about how well they work,but I have a ca reactor sitting around doing nothing.

Hey sorry it took so long to reply...

If you google "Korralin Biodenitrator" you can find all the specs... I feed mine with a Maxijet 1200, but you can use as low as a 600, as long as you have enough pressure to get a constant drip or stream...

As for media... wine shops sell the sulfur beads for cheapest, and the media lasts for YEARS... the 2nd media is just large chunks of calcium carbonate... or you can buy it as "Crushed Coral gravel" at your LFS... this media sits in the top and I've noticed mine has shrunk significantly since I first set it up... but it's cheap too... this is the most cost effective and reliable way to eliminate nitrates... mine has been proof enough for me. :biggrin:

Sounds simple enough.So using a ca reactor all a person would need to do is get the 2 different medias,and something to put between them, and a small pump.Sulfer on the bottom,then some sort of divider,then ca media.water flows from bottom and out the top . Is that correct or am I off on something?

You got it all right there! And there's the most comprehensive reading about it in Delbeek & Sprung's Vol 3.... but most of the same stuff is available to read on the net as well... like I said, I found mine easy... might seem daunting but it's simple really... some people prefer systems with dual chambers and stuff... or even to plug into a regular Ca+ Reactor system to make more efficient use of C02 and fewer overall pumps & plumbing...

It's almost too simple... go for it!

I heard these work awesome. But I also heard that once all the nitrates are sucked out, the bacteria within the media will not have a sufficient food source and basically starve. In other words, you can't really keep one of these babies going for a long time as you'll essentially just be pumping CO2 into your tank.

Also, once you remove your nitrates and your media "dies", you need to go through another cycle (where you have to wait a few weeks to get the effluent's nitrates back to zero) to get it alive and recharged again.

I think for short term, you can't beat using these to remove nitrates but not for long term. I believe that's why these aren't as popular as they really could be if they were a long term solution.

But the bacteria wouldn't die all at once,but slowly as nitrates come down.As they die,they in turn will feed other bacteria,all would balance out.Wouldn't this be the same as the other bacteria in our tanks?.There is always some amonia (fish pee,food breakdown)Nitrites,and eventualy nitrates.I would think the reactor would always have a population,but less pop at 5ppm No3 as 100ppm.
I could be wrong,but it makes sense to me.

In a sparsely stocked and fed system I would agree... but my fish are FAT... haha. It works great so far...:mrgreen:

Reeferaddict, what kind of flowrate ("effluent" output) do you have running through the unit?

The flow through the media, is it "downflow" or is it "upflow"?

Does anyone know, what's the risk of H2S gas being released from a sulfur reactor?

Correct me if I'm wrong here people. If you have a Cal Reactor then you can add half the sulfur and half the arm media or what ever you use for the reactor that you have right.

There is this risk. BUT Apparently it only happens if the main circulation pump stops circulating and goes un-noticed.

I am seriously considering going this route on my tank as well. I'm going to go with a different reactor though.. These guys have a good reputation:

www.midwestaquatic.com

(lots of good info on the site, especially in the product .pdf's / site forums)

You could convert the reactor yes, but not use it as both. They are similar, but the denitrator does not need C02 injection.

Would you be able to turn a Phosban Reactor into one?

I don't see why not, might work well on a small system. (less than 100g)

It would probably be better to run 2 phosban reactors in series. One with sulphur & one with the calcium carbonate.

You would have to recirculate from the inlet to the outlet using a low flow pump. Then tee into both lines and run a slip stream from your tank through the Tee'd in lines.

Hi Mike, that's actually my plan (to convert one of my unused Ca reactors into a sulfur reactor). The Korallin units actually have the same model #'s as their calcium reactors which tells me it's the same units, just plumbed a little different because there's no CO2.

Psyire - I was looking at those Midwest units -- they look good too. Premiumaquatics has them in case you (or anyone else) is looking for a vendor. They carry both the Korallin and those (unless I have my brandnames mixed up -- they have another one besides the Korallin at any rate).

So H2S is only a concern in the event of a power failure or pump stop? Hmmmmmmmm ... I need to do more reading. The problem is ... well .. H2S is some seriously nasty stuff. Reducing the nitrates isn't worth dying for!