Stop Clearcutting
 

Perhaps you have already heard of the planned clearcutting of forests near Bragg Creek. If not, please see http://www.braggcreek.ca/forest/index.htm

We all know that this can affect our water quality down stream in Calgary, so if you want to help stop this please send you comments to any or all of the links provided below.

Thanks!

Premier@gov.ab.ca

Livingstone.Macleod@assembly.ab.ca

woodlands@spraylakesawmills.com

bonnyville.coldlake@assembly.ab.ca

woodlands@spraylakesawmills.com

fortmcmurray.woodbuffalo@assembly.ab.ca

Calgary.northwest@assembly.ab.ca

foothills.rockyview@assembly.ab.ca

Edmonton.HighlandsNorwood@assembly.ab.ca

Edmonton.Riverview@assembly.ab.ca

edmonton.decore@assembly.ab.ca

calgary.varsity@assembly.ab.ca

calgary.mountainview@assembly.ab.ca

edmonton.goldbar@assembly.ab.ca

mwilliams@rockyview.ca

hmmmm...this is not good

Remember that lil brouhaha over GAMP just before may long weekend?

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...efer/ghost.jpg

That's the Ghost OHV area using the hybrid map on google maps... Sure looks like the 4 wheelers do the most damage doesn't it? No damage is caused by the exploration and logging companies who work up there!

Good luck with that fight, loggings been going on around mclean since long before K-Country even existed... The government's not about to stop it... But they will make sure the only way you can see the destruction is by sources like google maps.

yup good luck with that fight.......... not going to stop the logging industy..........sorry

Negativity only fosters apathy. You guys aren't helping anything with that attitude. Things CAN be changed.

im sorry to say it but logging has been around for to long and generates way too much money for this province for the government to do anything about it........ im in the oil industry and i knoe first hand how much damage we are doing to our environment..... the government has made new laws to govern what and how and how much but the fines attached with the new laws are far less to pay then how much money would be lost to listen to them..........sorry

Thanks for shedding light on the hopelessness of the situation. I'm sure we all appreciate the spot of sunshine in the storm every now and then. Now if you don't mind, I'm going to go back to emailing each and every one of those offices my thoughts on the issue. To that effect, many of my acquantainces will also be doing likewise.

sorry but im just stateing facts...... i never said it was right just said how it is............ suncor and syncrude pay millions if not billions of dollars in fines annually to the canadian government........ lots of people have tried to get them to stop doing what they are doing........ with no success....................................

What is your point?

nothing i stated that already....... good luck with ur fight:wink:

See, what bother's me is not YOUR apathy, it's how your comments encourage indifference and detachment in other people.

In addition, I also believe that standards are set by values. Personally, I define my quality of character through my values. Thus, though you may not see it, when you lay down the hints that my standards are ill-advised or faulty, I see it as a direct violation of my personal boundaries. It's insulting really. You're literally telling me that I'm an idiot for doing what is right.

albert im not calling you an idiot....... if i wanted to call you an idiot i would just come out and say that......... im just saying you can lobey and pititoin all you want.......and im not saying that it is not the right thing to do........ im just saying looking at the facts it seams like you are in for a fight that isnt going to be heard ar anything will be done about....... forestry is big money a few ****ed off calgarians isnt going to change the fact that alberta will stand to make a huge profit in the harvesting of the lumber....... besides what they take out they have to replenish.

Okay, I can accept that. But I'm still for petitioning.

i never said it wasnt the right thing to do............ good luck

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Touchy subject!

Will you petition demon666?

Its the hidden destruction that I'm afraid of.
Thanks Albert for your participation.

no i will not petition.......... to many jobs at risk if something were to ever happen....... think about how many people would be out of work........ the loggers ( the ones cutting down the trees)........ the truck drivers.......... then there are the ppl in the mills.......... and last but not least the tree planters that come in after it is all said and done to replenish the deforested area............ just another way to look at it

Things like this are a direct result of the Alberta PC party being in the pockets of large resource companies. Definitive action on environmental issues will not happen with the current government.

However, grassroots actions around things like that can make things happen. There was a significant amount of development around Sylvan Lake that was delayed because of a similar action recently. It's a good thing to be certain but remember that electoral change is the only was to ensure that you won't have to fight the same fight over and over. I admit that I am uninterested in the current opposition for various reasons but something needs to change.

Demon666, jobs aren't exactly hard to come by ATM, I wouldn't feel especially upset for those involved. I also don't think that anyone is advocating a complete halt to forestry operations in Alberta either. The major concern is that many people who will potentially be affected by this have not be notified of the changes or consulted on how to deal with the potential impact.

i beleive that this is takeing care of that
http://www.braggcreek.ca/forest/index.htm

This is a site run by an individual which is providing people information about the issue and promoting a meeting put on by the Bragg Creek Environmental Coalition.

Hardly an example of proper project management. I can't find any notice or information on this subject that involves a meeting between stakeholders and any regulatory or provincial government body.

The site is a good thing but it's not what I was talking about.

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FYI: I recieved a response from the office of the Premier today, and they will be addressing the issue with all parties concerned prior to approval.

Actually, an end to clear-cutting would probably create more jobs.
- It would necessitate a restructuring of the current forestry industry and administration would be required to plan and implement the changes.
- Sustainable development (silvaculture, etc) of lumber land means the same land could be used longer and more frequently than the current clear-cutting method.
- Alternatives to pulp paper, like hemp, would be encouraged to grow along with the lumber industry creating a whole new workforce.
- And in the long term, the surrounding areas would be far more attractive to developers, tourists, movie producers, wildlife, etc.

k look at it this way...... sooner or latter by man or nature that forest is going to come down.........y loose out on the revenue that it will create..... this year a fire could do the same thing learing out that forest..... causing the same problems......... and no money from it to replant the trees that were destroyed........... who are you going to potition when the fires come and clear out your forests?????

I will ask only one question

Has anyone here benefited from clearcutting?

http://www.otgmag.com/features/deskt...rkland-800.jpg

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/321/ski_runs.jpg

http://termites.martalexterminators....t-Termites.jpg

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thum...n_money__3.jpg

http://www.masla.com/tank/images/kent02.jpg

So easy to forget :eek:

That's pretty minor when you consider the fact that a single tree takes up 671 lbs. of CO2 over its lifetime, giving 235 tons (470,000 lbs.) of CO2 abated per acre of trees over the course of the trees' lifetime.

I'm going to strongly recommend that you sit down for this movie:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/inconvenient_truth/

It shows the extremely persuasive arguments of less golf courses, less housing, less money, and less elaborate cabinetry for what they really are: inconveniences - ones that have environmentally sound solutions.

im with murray................

no one on this board can tell me that they would give up their house or give away their money or build a getto fish stand out of cynder blocks to be displayed in their living room of for mentioned house and give up the golf courses to save the life of the trees....... pls


albert do you live in a tin house?

Maybe I started out a bit harsh - spent a bit too much time debating merits of GAMP, and some other 'environmental' topics yesterday.

Spray Lakes sawmills actually does some good work when it comes to forestry management. That picture I posted above, is actually of SLS's work. That logging clearly visible isn't close to clearcutting (by it's old definition - hectares of trees removed), But that is their standard practice, if you use google maps hybrid, look to the area from hwy 1 south of bragg creek, you'll see that type of logging repeatedly. Looking through their forest management plan (available until june 23rd) http://www.spraylakesawmills.com/ there's no mention of a change in their approach to logging.

So... Knowing spray lakes's previous work, I'm highly suspect of claims by environmentalists that suddenly they're going to cut down huge swaths of forest, leaving not a tree standing... That hasn't been their technique in the past, I doubt it will be their future goal.

Wow that looks like a good movie I have to put it on my got to see list

Hmmmm seems to be only showing in Calgary :sad:

lol

You're taking that way out of proportion, no? That's completely out of the context of what I said.

Firstly, they've already developed materials for home construction that are completely 100% free of wood. I couldn't cite the material for you other than I've caught it twice on Daily Planet. These materials are far more fire resistant, structurally more robust and can be made into modular units - decreasing the build time into a matter of weeks vs. months.

Second, no one is giving away any money. There's plenty of ways to make money and solutions to jobs have already been mentioned earlier in this post.

Third, my stands are made out of metal with MDF skins and they look fine to me. MDF is made out of wood waste products, of which there are plenty to be had as it is.

Last, I don't golf. I've tried it. It reminds me of waiting for the bus. There's not much of an objective commentary I can make here other than the fact that there's plenty of golf courses as it is.

So would I give all that up? Well, unless there's some really compelling reasoning that I'm completely ignorant to that doesn't involve human wants, you bet I will.

I've got a question for you:

What says you to a future where your children only hear about forests in history classes?

Actually, nevermind. There's no solution to this at this level of discussion. I've been brought up to look at the world and environmental issues a certain way. Clearly, your values are different. I can respect that, so nevermind.

albert that will never happen........ there is legislation in place that wont let that happen ( only talking about the logging industry not about cities getting bigger and stuff like that that also deforests places) logging companies have to replant the areas where they remove trees from there for they remove a tree they must replant a tree....... there will always be trees to handel the co2 that was talked about b4.....

This is true! They will plant a seedling for every 40 foot tree they chop down!
The seedling will remove the same amount of co2 as the 40 footer in about 100 years. :lol:

still replanted and renewd the area for future generations to enjoy....... didnt say it would be my kid or grandkids or even great grand kids maybe 5 or 6 generations will enjoy it

Wasn't talking about enjoyment, but rather co2 removal. Maybe people will just have to take a break from breathing for a few generations?

or how about this........... drive less take public transport walk more or ride a bike......... stop breathing come on.......

I was just relpying to your post where you stated in an "as a matter of fact" way that logging companies have it all covered.
Yes they do have to replant trees, but you and I both know that these tree's are not going to be of any huge bennifit for a very long time. While big buisness tells us about all the good they do.

Did you ever see what they leave behind after clearcutting? All of the premium lumber is removed while all of the "less cost effective to remove" is dozed into piles for burning. I know you said you work in the patch, so you must have seen this a number of times and thought to yourself WTF. I know I have.

im not denying that at all....... i was just replying to albert....... "your kids learn about forests in history class" i know little trees dont do much or anything or anything at all....... yes i have seen the big burn piles of brush....... depensing where the lease site is (type of ground) the trees that are dozed are mulched and spread on lease or lease access or pushed to the side to be respread after the rig is off location.


but also there are more things we can do to remove co2 from the environment then jsut relying on trees alone............. but that is another debate......... we could go at that as well........ would be interesting to see the veiws on that one.

To bad I was away I missed the beginning of this one... Danny before you get all wound up you forgot to find out some important info.. why are they clear cutting??? The link is for a local community web page and they want to save there trees like any community would. but there are a couple things (ok millions) on the move that Alberta and BC have just signed an agreement to try to stop. the pin beetle. this little bugger is wiping out huge tracts of trees and has the capability to wipe out all of BC and Alberta's pine type trees if left unchecked. No I am not sure if this has anything to do with Brag creak but it goes to show that more research has to be done before jumping on a bandwagon. as for affecting Calgary's water, is this off the brag creak page also.. man wouldn't that be good if they could find a way to get them big city folks (who kill off there own trees to build more city) to be on our side.

anyways.. I have seen first hand what the pine beetle will do to an area of forest in 1 year and it is not pretty.. I think the number of "infested tree harvest was cranked up this year in an effort to halt it, and the amount of trees killed in 1 year by the bugs is more than 10 years of logging in BC.

I have also seen first hand the reforestation projects where clear cut areas are re-planted and it does work quite well and in as little as 10 years there is a good forest again with a higher survival rate than the original one.

Steve

I Don't think a petition from a bunch of angry canreefers is going to solve the problem...go out and chain yourself to them damn trees...nice afternoon out with the family.

tb