New 225 Setup with Aquascaping Focus
 

I have also posted this on RC but wanted to also update the progress in this forum as it has lots of locals :)

Hello all,

My name is Keith and I live in Calgary, Canada.

I am starting another "watch me build my tank" thread but I hope this one will be a bit different.

I am the current owner of a low to midrange 90 gallon tank with some assorted corals and fish. While I love my tank I always felt that it could be so much more. Then I came across this thread on RC and was truly inspired by the design of the tank and some of the comments in the thread.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=853513

My biggest "dislike" in reefkeeping is the look of a tank that that is simply filled with Live rock (one large hill in the middle) covered in coral with clams, frags etc all over the sand. I think it looks cluttered and very non reef like. I also think that coraline all over the back and sides of the tank takes away from the depth of the tank and should be eliminated. Last, I cannot stand the look of powerheads, heaters or anythink man made in the tank. (I hope this does not offend anyone in any way, this is just my anal opinion anyway :) )

Here is a quote from "steveweast" in the above thread that says it better than I can:

Greg (Bonsainut) posted the best example of aquascaping perfection. It's the one I always come back to for inspiration....and why ? ....because I believe the answer to all your aquascaping questions are right there in that pic..... you just need to notice its philosophies...

1) have just as much postive space (rocks and corals) as negative space (open water and sand)

2) Don't worry about creating nooks/crannies/caves/etc....they just will be eventually covered by livestock. Instead focus on the general rock shape that has both low and high points...perhaps even breaking the surface. Focus on large details...not small crevises (especially if you have a large tank).

3) Maintain an algae free back (and sides if possible) to create an illusion of infinite depth....contrary to what we'd all like to believe, coralline does not create an attractive back drop...only a distracting one.

4) hide all the things of man.....overflows...pumps...pipes....etc.

5) don't clutter the sand bed with a bunch of livestock....a clam or two...maybe...but that's it. Cluttered sandbeds just make the overall display look too busy. You can improve the overall display tremendously by just removing all the frags, zoas, blastos, etc that so many people seem to keep on the sandbed these days......it just distracting.

With this in mind I am going to TRY to create a new tank that follows these principals.

The tank will be 225 gallons (72 long, 30 deep, and 24 high). The 30 deep instead of the standard 24 deep 30 high should allow a few more aquascaping possibilities.


As for the equipment, on my 90 I went low to mid range for most of the items and was often let down.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2..._1244Large.jpg

For the 225, I am going to try to get only the best equipment and do this right.

Here are my equipment plans (I will put rough equipment costs in here in case anyone is interested) Opinions are welcome!

Water movement.:
Tunze TS24 Turbelle Stream Pump Kit - 2 x 6100 Pump + 7095 Multi Controller and a Wave Box. The pumps will be hidden on the rockwork by 2 Tunze Turbelle Stream Deco-Rocks.
Total $2000 CAD

(I did seriously think about a closed loop system, but I want to do some serious wave simulation and I love the nightime, feeding, and total control that the tunze offers.)

Lighting:
72" PFO Professional Series Metal Halide
IceCap Metal Halide Ballast Add-On - 3x250W
3-250W 10000K XM Metal Halide BulbPFO Fixture IceCap Fan
Dual Fan
PFO LED Night Light Add-On
PFO Fixture 72" VHO Actinic Add-On (Dual) - 2x165W
Total $2000 CAD

Skimmer:
Euro-Reef RC500 External Protein Skimmer
Total $2000 CAD

Sump:
I am still not decided on the Sump. Currently my plans are to use my 90 for a sump/refugium combo but I do not think my skimmer will fit inside (I know it can go external but would prefer it internal) so I may have to order something custom.

Sand/Bottom:
I am going barebottom and have ordered my board from TheCuttingBoard Company. (2 - 1/2 inch thick 36" x 30" white boards.) $200

Live Rock:
I am going to go with a full Deep Water Tonga environment. I currently have 70 lbs in my 90 and have another 70 shipping out today. $500 per 70lbs

Filtration:
Other than the skimmer, I am going to have a ton of Cheato in the Sump, 2 Phosban Reactors running RowPhos and Carbon, and 3 custom plumbed pails (Like the Instant Ocean ones) that will be joined by PVC and bulkheads and fed from a pump through 2 unlit deep sand beds and 1 unlit miracle mud bed.

Due to many spills and floods from the 90, we are redisigning my den and putting down tile and laminate where than will soon be going.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2..._1242Large.jpg

Current progress. The pipes just go to the 90 for now and will be removed once I have converted to the new tank.

My equipment and Tank will be arriving this week so please feel free to comment with any opinions or suggestions as I move forward.

Sounds like you know your reef shizzy, the design sounds really good to me. I like open aquascaping as well, with lots of open sand.

Couple ideas/suggstions to build a "dream tank" IMO:

I would go to 400w bulbs seeing as you are going 30" tall.

Are you restricted to putting stuff under your stand? If not there is lots more you could do, frag grow out tank, seperate fuge, etc.

For equipment, I would add in a Coralife Turbo Twist UV, and a calcium reactor with a Milwaukee controller. Get the ORP/PH controller and you could add Ozone for water clarity too. In order of importance I would go UV, then calcium reactor, then Ozone.

I would also incorporate and auto top off system with automatic RODI control.

Also for aquascaping, you can use various methods to attach rock together for some great formations. Zip-tie, drill and pvc, etc.

And for the skimmer, if you have sump and place to hide it, the ASM G6 would be an awesome skimmer for less money.

Other things, make sure you have lots of drain line capacity for safety, and a smart sump design for anti-flooding, float switches are also great for that, and preventing pump burn-out.

Some great suggestions reefgeek.

My tank is actually 72 long 30 wide and 24 high so I think the 250's are ok.

I actually do have Ozone already, just forgot to mention it :) I have a Red Sea Aquazone Deluxe Ozonizer (w/ ORP Controller & Probe) - 200 mg/hr

I have heard so many conflicting things about UV. What do you think it adds to the tank that Ozone does not?

I am using a Tunze 3155 Ozmolator for my top up system. How does auto Ro/DI work?

Underneath my tank will be totally empty and I love the idea of a Frag Growout tank. I will got on that immediatly.

As for the Calcium reactor, I am considering it but unless I go with a lot of SPS do I really need it?

My tunze equipment just arrived. this is getting exciting now!


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2..._1305Large.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2..._1306Large.jpg

Thanks!

Hey Keith, Like Rory said, you can get some great formations by making PVC frames and zip tying the rocks to it. Ask me about it next time you swing by the store and I'll show you a picture of a tank I aquascaped for a customer. His tank is pretty much the same size as your's and the rock layouts are quite dramatic.

Thanks Albert. I will do that next time I am in. Do you create the PVC frame first, then attach the rocks? What if they are huge rocks, like the Tonga Deep water? This sounds very cool.

I should mention that the tank is being made by Gold's as I have heard that their builder does great work. The tank will arrive on friday so watch for pics.

The frame is easy to assemble but you just have to make sure it will fit in the tank once it's assembled (I forgot to account for the Euro-bracing the first time around and had to trim off a lot of the frame, doh). But you gotta drill holes in the frame every 2-4".

As for larger rocks, you can set them near the bottom and... ahh bugger, it would be easier for me to show you in person.

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Looks like a lot of fun! Keep us posted!

Your Tunze auto top off will pump from a reservoir of water into your tank when water evaporates. This means you still have to use an RODI until to fill a reservoir manually. I ran like this for a while, but after forgetting to turn the RODI off sometimes, I got some small floods.

A really simple solution is to hook up a sprinkler solenoid between your water source and the RODI. Then put this on a timer, for just under the water usage you have per day, and plumb the RODI to your reservoir. This will keep the reservoir slowly filling up each day, but also the reservoir will slowly go down, but at least you are not manually filling it as often.

More complicated involves float switches in the reservoir to control the sprinkler soloenoid precisely.

Another way is to use a float valve in the reservoir, with a hydraulic switch in your RODI that will flip from pressure in the line when the float valve closes. But this can fail too easily IMO, especially when your line between RODI and reservoir is lengthy, like across your house, then you would need pressure bladders to keep the pressure up, like spectrapure setup use.

I have tried all 3 of the above methods, right now I just set my RODI unit to just below my daily usage, and manually crank the timer around to top up immiediately when I notice it is low. So a couple times a week I crank the timer, and all is well.

I have not run ozone (yet) but ozone clears up your water quality by breaking down organics in the water that otherwise would color it.

UV kill free floating "stuff" like bacteria, im no biologist, but this has cut down my slime algae by 1/10th at least, I rarely have to clean the glass, I actually clean the glass to get rid of coralline now, not green slime.

I have seen PVC frames too, but you don't necessarily have to build a whole frame if you don't want to

You could get a masonary/diamond drill bit that is just a bit smaller than 1/2" PVC outside diameter, then drill into rock #1 in desired connecting location. Then jamb a lenght of 1/2" PVC into it, should be a snug fit, and cut the PVC to lenth that the next hold depth will be in rock #2. Then drill rock #2, and connect the two pieces of rock.

If you end up with any visible PVC, you can glue on rubble rock to cover it, but if you do it right and pay attention to the surfaces this should not be necessary.

Make sure you use a really nice drill bit (maybe a diamond or carbide masonary bit would work best? Ask at the hardware store) so you dont fracture the rock, drill really slowly and test on smaller pieces first. It would be best to use a drill press with the rock in a vice, but by hand should work too if you are carefully. This is a great way to make long arches of rock, and allows you to make really clean looking connections between rocks, they don't have to overlap as much and you end up with your whole rock structure looking like it is just 1 solid piece of rock, very reef-like IMO.

Albert,

Can you post the pics here? I am sure others would love to see your handiwork!

It's printed... haha

Thats alot of tunze gear, your tanks going to be rockin' like a hurricane. Keep us posted.

You mean it is going to be slick, like the Oilers. :)

Hope you got a good deal for ordering 1 of everything from their catalogue. :)
Tunze stuff is so nice, im soooo jealous.

Slick like the oilers. :) Boy did you guys dodge a bullet last night!


Here is a mockup of what I want to do with the tank. Excuse my poor MSPaint Skills.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...TankDesign.jpg

the best rock work i have ever seen done is by a guy that goes by fudge on here and his pics are posted on RC. he did an unbelievable job. i like your layout plan. looks really good, keep us posted with tons of pics

Very similar to what I am going to do, except I have to hide my overflow, and I am going to have an arch connecting the two areas.

And you will want area on the right hand side open, just like the back, for cleaning.

Made some changes thanks to recomendations and forgot to add the return and wavebox :)

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nkDesign-1.jpg

Top shelf system :cool: Your setup is very much like what I was planning to do with my 280g project (except that, unlike me, you seem to be actually taking steps to work on it).

Anyhow I'm happy to hear where you got the cutting board, I'm going to remember that for when I'm close to that point.

And I'm looking forward to seeing the completed project. Should be sweet!!! Best of luck.

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Cool idea with the high point sticking right out of the water. You could try to plant mangroves on them.

BTW

I can think of a couple of things that the Oilers are slick like!:mrgreen:

Will the wavebox be very effective in the corner behind the rocks?

From what I have read, the Wavebox will work fine from the corner even if there a rocks near it. I guess it has more to do with the sonic resonance of the tank than actually pushing water. As long as it is pointing down the length of the tank, it should work fine.

I was reading about an experiment where the wave box can actually run from outside of the tank in a small glass box attached to the side of the tank with only one small hole. Ill try to find the link. It is pretty neat.

We will see though. Ill report my findings here and let you know. Worst case is I have to move the rock out an inch or two.

My wavebox is also behind rocks with only 12" of space on front of it. I get 1" wave.

Looks good, my only critisism is that with only 24" hight you wont get the effect you are looking for with the low and high points on the right. But i could be wrong, ill keep watching and see.

I agree with the 24 height but the 30 deep was WAY more important to me as I want the illusion of open water more than height.

That said, I could have gone 72x30x30 but then I would need more powerful bulbs and longer arms :)

I can still get the low and high points this way and it should be more gradual.

We will see.

I'm going to second the comment about Fudge's work. It is simply AMAZING.

Put me down for an "Amazing looking tank". I also agree with the depth vs high look.

Andrew,

Everything sounds great so far. The theory is great. I can't wait to see it in action. The only thing that stands out with me is that you don't want a back wall covered in coralline because it's distracting which I agree with. But using a starboard bottom will also cover in corraline. Is that what you'd prefer or do you want a more natural sand look? Myself, I really enjoy the bright white look a sandbed displays in a reef setup but prefer the benefits of a barebottom tank. Since you're already putting a lot of time and effort into planning and building this system, you may want to look into a false sandbed by glueing sand down on to the starboard. Just a suggestion but if it's done right it can give you the best of both worlds. I look forward to seeing your progress on this since I plan on building a very similar system in the near future. Good luck.

If you paint the back wall of the tank, could you still clean it with a mag float? Or will that scratch the paint off?

My guess is it would probably scratch the paint off eventually. The only problem I have with paint is it's permanant. If you ever decided to make the tank a three sided viewing tank in the future then you're stuck with the back wall painted. I've always wanted to try a mirror or a mirrored material maybe like window tint. Other than seeing your own reflection sometimes it would definitely make it look like there's a lot more depth.

I have razor bladed off blue paint from 20g tank before. Scratches would be a definate risk though.

Depending on the paint type maybe it could be removed with turpentine. (sp?)

My magfloat doesn't bother the paint. The paint is, of course, on the outside of the tank so it's the soft side of the magfloat that gets run over it.

What kind of paint did you use? How did you apply it?

I use Krylon spray paint. I normally spray it on. :lol:

Well my tank arrived tonight and it is HUGE. It's one thing to measure and plan, but when the tank actually showed up I just could not believe how big it was.

Albert and the gang from Golds delivered it and did a great job. Man that thing weighed a TON.

Ill post pics later as I cannot find my Wide angle lens for my camera.

There were a couple of things Albert metioned that I wanted to clear up and thought it would be good to have them in the forum.

Since the tank is frameless, we put it on some plywood and Albert suggested I get some foam to put under it. I got a 1/4 foam camping pad from Wal Mart since Home Depot only carries hard styrofoam it seems.

Does this look ok?

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../Crap/Foam.jpg

Albert also suggested that I cut out a portion of the center of the foam and leave it open. I am not sure why I need to do this and perhaps Albert can explain as it was a bit crazy while he was here. Would just leaving the whole sheet of foam under the tank cause problems?

Anyway, it's in a looks great. I have to wait a week for it to cure and then put fresh water in it for a week to leak test. That is ok as I have at least that much work to do with the Sump, rockwork tests and plumbing.

Ill post pics tomorrow.

Keith

Ok, I found the lens.

Here are the shots:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1387Medium.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1389Medium.jpg


Look how tiny my little 90 looks now from the exact same distance of the shot!!!!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1388Medium.jpg

Here is the overflow. There is one on each side outside of the tank. I wanted as much room in the tank as possible and as little man made objects as possible.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...1390Medium.jpg

Since this tank is frameless, you'll want the center of the tank to "float". The reason being that, under pressure, the glass will push down against the floor support, with the floor support exerting an equal amount of pressure back against the glass (physics, lol). If there's ANY kind of uneveness against the glass (eg. a knot area in the plywood), it's going to create different areas of pressure; foam will only provide a marginal buffer against this. Imagine pushing the end of a 2x4 against the center of the front panel, it'll just break. The same applies to your bottom panel, except tenfold since that's where all of the weight is concentrated.

For this reason, Oceanic will not warrantee cracked tanks that are not put on Oceanic stands. These stands support only the outside edges of the tank, thus, floating the center.

Edit: you're going to want to go back to Home Depot and pick up some of the 3/4" hard foam insulation sheets for this. Soft foam is just asking for it...

OK, thanks Albert ill do that today.

How much of the center do I cut out so it can float? Or I guess it would be easier to ask how wide should each side of the foam be after I have cut out the center?

Thanks Albert.

You only need 4"-6" around the perimeter of the tank. Just make sure it's a pretty stiff insulating foam.

Oh yeah, Keith, you might want to put the tank on it's back and paint the bottom of it white prior to actually doing anything with it. If you don't, you're going to end up with that disgusting "refracted ugh" look that a lot of BB tanks have.