Are MH's really the way to go
 

Hi,
I recently was told by my brother-in-law, aka bnhreef, who is the smartest guy in all of the world, if you ever want coral that MH's are the way too regardless of the wattage and k of power compacts they just wont compare to Metal Halide lighting. Is this true?
Thanks
Cam

I'll get back to you on this..going to find a few sources that compare initial setup, maintenance costs, and actual output differences. :D

I've used NO, T5s, PC & now MH. Go with MH right off & save yourself hundreds in unnecessary upgrades. I've seen & heard of people doing it successfully with "lesser" lights, but for a 2' by 2' tank, that would take a lot of PC 65w or t5s to give proper coverage & the replacement costs on those other bulbs would be as much, if not more than for a single decent MH bulb. HO T5s are expensive & so are multiple PC units. Do they make a 2' long VHO?

If you do a search on this subject, this same question has been asked zillions of times & the general consensus is go straight to MH to avoid the cost of upgrades. Why try with minimum light when you can actually give your corals good lighting instead? If you're worried about the extra cost of a MH pendant, then get out before the next VISA bill hits you because this is only a drop in the bucket when it comes to reefing expenses.

Anthony

I agree with Seahorse on this one. I have tried NO's, VHO's ,T-5's And back to MH again I love the look of the water, but hte main reason is the light will punch thur the water alot easier and the intensity is stronger then other lights IMO.
BUt Dont get me wrong T-5's are a great light that will do the same along with Vho's SO its all personnel choice.

I love the Mh and the T-5's but that is me.

MH is the way to go and if you planning to get one go retro. its much cheaper or if you want go to ebay look for a ballast and reflector under the gardening sections b'coz I notice that prices are cheaper there than looking under pet supplies. I got mine there for only $89 including shipping.

:question:.I don't understand the question, as it is not English.

Why reply then?

Cam,

Going with MH's now could save you some money in the future.

I agree..without posting actual numbers and such, the input/output ratio for metal halides is unparalleled by any fluorescent combination.

I went to MH for no other reason than it's easier to ship 2 MH lamps than 8 48" fluorescent bulbs...funny enough, I've downsized to a T5 only setup because I dropped something in my tank and killed 90% of my corals and can't afford to replace them..so I didn't see a need to waste $20/month on lighting my tank with halides.

WTH did you drop in your tank? That is really too bad - I liked your tank and if I had anything that was ready to frag yet I would send you something. Maybe in a few months.

looks like english here. on the other hand i don't remember starting a sentence with a question mark as proper english, i'll leave the fancy details to you.

some power compacts...and no I didn't have a gfci installed yet :/ Got one now though :D changed to copper wire too instead of the aluminum wire that was existing.. (moved into a new house...old as bones wiring)

I have spent probably over 7K on lighting because I tried the overdriven NO, then PC/VHO, then PC/MH (175) and now 250watt MH.. I would have saved about 6K of it just going MH from the getgo.

Steve

Yes

IMO halide is the best quality of lighting and also works out to be the cheapest. Especially if you can avoid getting fleeced by LFS prices. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the "shimmer" as an advantage. That being said... I am kind of partial to the colour and look of tanks lit by pc and t5. Something about not having every nook and cranny lit up... seems to give a tank more 'mood'. The problem is, it will cost you more, may limit your livestock choices, and you will probably end up going to halide eventually anyway. From my experience, halide also allows for lower tank temperatures than pc lighting (unless you enclose it in a canopy right on top of your tank - but because of its penetrating power it doesn't need to be sitting right over the water).

In Bob's defense:
I too hate being corrected on something like grammar when I am trying to get an answer to a non-grammar-related question - but, he usually doesn't bother anyone unless the mistakes are really glaring or comprimise the meaning of the post so that you have to guess or assume what the person is asking. As much as he can be a pain, he does provide an important role here on Canreef... reminding us of the common courtesy of pre reading our posts. I'm sure that my post has errors too, but I did make an effort to have it as correct as possible... and I think that's reasonable to expect. And I suspect that Bob actually enjoys getting flamed - I would have an easier time believing that his signature line is Homer Simpson quoting BobI and not the other way around. JMO

- Chad

Edited - for spelling ( :

i dunno, those wacky germans are producing some pretty wicked tanks using t5's only.

The wacky Germans are..........however......if you look into it a little further you will see that hey are using just about all HO T5 (even overdriven) with some knockout reflectors for each bulb so I think the cost of trying to replicate - if you can even get that stuff here- would probably run you more than a good MH system. Then you have to consider the cost of replacement bulbs which I believe a lot of them are changing every 6 months or so.

I would recommend starting with M/H as most reefs tend to evolve over time. It has been my experience that few hobbiests stay only with the exact types of corals that they started with. As both your tank and experience in the hobby grows, your tastes will likely change somewhat. If you decide later that a tank with just softies no longer 'floats your boat' and you want to give sps, clams or other light demanding items a try, you will be ready for whatever you want to keep in your reef without having to spend extra loot upgrading. (been there, done that)

How are the lights that you purchased
 

Hey Cam,

Did you use my Advise and buy those MH's in Calgary?

Brad

Follow bnhreef's advice.
 

Cam,

Its my experience that bnhreef knows what he's talking about.

I'd do what he says and stick to the Metal Halides if you want to have as beautiful and sucessfull a reef as bnhreef has.

Good luck. (Although..... with bnhreef showing you the way, you won't need it!)

Bravo

I have 400W MH on my tank and I do like the shimmer effect of MH bulbs ... however to say MH are a necessity is inaccurate

check out this SPS/LPS tank run on T5's

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

I don't think it has much to do with his lighting but rather all the other junk he doses daily, weekly, monthly... I never did find the part where he said how old the tank is.. might have just missed it. I think with more light he could dose less as he was saying that he can adjust the color from brown (from dosing to much ) to vivid from dosing the right amount.. also reading the picture files a little photo shop doesn't hurt either, in fact there is so much hue shift and saturation in one he has a green and lime sailfin tang, and a teal powder blue tang.

Steve

What he doses the tank with has little to do with what corals need in terms of light intensity IMO ... Like I said I have MH but they are not a necessity

He has reduced excess nutrients to allow the colours to be more vivid but just uses T5's for light

Therefore MH are NOT required for SPS

I didn't read the whole thread either although I have read a lot of it before. If I am not mistaken all of his T5 are on individual reflectors and are HO and changed out every 6-8 months. He also has a whole whack of them on that tank.
I think at the end of the day you will probably spend more on his system than you will on a good MH system and even with increased electrical consumption the cost of replacement bulbs alone will balance that out.

He does have over 800 watts of T5's on that tank which if it was 6' long as I suspect it to be would mean you would be using 3 MH equivalents prolly in the 250W range = 750W ... plus maybe some actinic supplementation of a couple hundred watts

Changing bulbs of any genre 6 to 8 months is IMO too drastic a schedule but hard to argue with success of his tank

I would hazard that anyone that disagrees with his choice of lighting has a tank looking as good or better than what he has accomplished :wink:

Please post a pic of what you are referring to ... he does not own a powder blue tang so not sure what tank you are looking at ???


I did not mean for this to be a contentious issue :sad:

If you like MH then buy MH ... The question posed at the top of the page was whether it was necessary to have MH and that tank proves that it is not ... thats all :wink:

http://www.hausriff.ch/media/DIR_142951/DSC01370.JPG

the first pic at the very begining of the thread, you linked tothe second half:mrgreen: and ya not a powder blue but a powder turquoise:lol:

http://http://reefcentral.com/forums...5&pagenumber=1

anyways no one said you need MH, but rather instead of screwing around with other types it would have been much more cost effective to go MH in the first place.. I had SPS under all types of lighting and I can from experence say while I have growth under PC's I never experenced the color and vibrance I get from MH.

Steve

not a powder anything, it looks like a naso.

somewhere on that thread there is a video if you don't believe those colors are real. i believe he used prodibio and zeovit so it's not surprising the colors are so vibrant.

Thats a naso tang by the looks of it on the right and it looks more grey in the body than turquoise to me ( I also own a naso tang and it looks a awfull lot like that one with MH lights ) ... the only other fish is a sailfin tang in the middle and a purple tang to the left ... any of those you calling a powder brown tang ?

You may want to get that monitor of yours checked or a optomitrist appointment may be due :razz: :wink:

anyways no one said you need MH,

the author of this thread was advised that MH was the only way to go ... I was merely pointing out that there are alternatives to MH and I doubt that these T5's would cost more than a MH setup

and we are not talking about using PC lighting for SPS as a alternative ... instead that beautifull tank is run with 100% T5's

PS ... if you read that monster thread that got auto split by the RC forums ... the tank is 2 years as a mostly SPS dominated tank ... FOWLR previous to that

I was thinking about adding some extra lighting to my system. I think I'll take a look into some T5's and see if I can mount them into my existing unit. Even if those pictures are tweeked a little with photoshop the stuff looks great.

Allright already ! The colour may be because of the combo of bulbs .On my 3 foot tank I have 2 -21 watt 20,000k actinics 1-39 watt HO 6500k and 1-21 watt 6500k for a wopping total of 102 watts .I keep softies ,LPS ,crocea and squamosa clams .The clams are on the bottom off the tank and most of the time the mantles are fully extended down to the sandbed. I find the colour just right,not too white or too blue.

MH's
 

Hey all,

I just wanted to pipe in here one last time. Cam, the originator of this thread, asked me several questions regarding his desires for a larger setup. We all know that there are several solutions to several issues or requirements in reefing. I just gave him my personal opinion.

Hi my name is Brad and I am lazy. I've been lazy now for several years. My last lazy trip was yesterday.

All jokes aside, I try to maintain a reef with minimal effort. I do however like an open top tank and I find myself in the water arms deep quite often.

I have one 250W DE Geisman in a PFO pendant over my tank. That's it. One day if I'm richer, I may need another pendant. I like the pendants because they offer me availability to my tank (I can get in there easier, also I can shut the pumps off and admire things from overhead).

I do wish I could cover more of my corals with a blanket of light as offered from VHO's, T5's, and PC's...Also, I think my bulb is a 14500k, which offers some fluorescing aspects to the corals but not as much as I want. If I was to add another light, it would be a 20000K bulb.

I don't like to spend continually on equipment so I went with MH's, hoping that I won't have quality of light loss as soon as the other fluorescent type bulbs.

Cam is correct to have asked the forum for differing opinions. I just found what works for me, today. That may change tomorrow.

The article posted on reefcentral and alluded to earlier in this thread about "iwan's" reef aquarium is Switzerland is an interesting one. I never thought about where exactly the color in corals come from. I just assumed it was contained the pigments created by the zooxanthelae (sp?) to trap photons. It never occured to me that it might be in the proteins coded by the DNA of the coral itself, makes sense....

I admire what "iwan" has achieved, I just don't want to do water changes weekly as I am lazy. To be honest with all of you, I set up a tank last August and I didn't do a water change until last month when Cam started up his 20 gal. I skim and grow macro, that's it ...but in the last month I have done almost a 100% water change.

I'm lazy (accept for this long-winded post)


Brad

Um, monitor is fine, didn't spent this much money on it to be not fine :mrgreen:
and Naesco/powder blue I am always getting mixed up so either way they should be blue, and yes I did get my glasses and have another look:lol: and where did powder brown come from?



you know, I just reread this thread and I didn't see a statement at all implying MH are the only way to go, I see a lot of in the long run you'll save money by going MH, and a lot of personally I like MH the best out of all my set ups, but yes we all know you don't need MH, if the tank is shallow you can get away with NO lighting and if you use the vodka and chemical method you can probably have a beautiful tank, but as most of us 99% are not into fussing 3 times a day or daily or some even weekly and are not willing to shell out the big bucks for these new systems on the market, in all reality can you say anything bad about going with MH aside from you might need to find a way to cool it down if your set up is designed wrong?


It doesn't matter weather it is PC or T5HO (which we can't seem to get in Canada anyways, or if we can not that easy) with the chemical regiment he is doing, he would probably get the same result. Besides a PC is a T4Ho anyways which has an intensity higher than a T5, but its down fall is its folded design which ends up making ~33% of the light unavailable.

I saw the sps but I missed the 2 years, to much reading, well actually tired of sifting through the RC crap to find some useful info. I remembered why I don't go there any more now, thanks.

the above was the first post in the thread ... you did not have to go any further than that to see who I was responding to :mrgreen:

The author of this thread asked a question and I was just giving him a alternate opinion ( ie different than yours :razz: )

Pretty sure we have a rule that nobody can have an opinion different than Stircrazy's....or at least he keeps asking for one!! hahahaaaa

i think we should all have a whip around and get steve a new pair of glasses.. or maybe a tang id book :razz:

Bah, I thought you ment in the replies :mrgreen: oh well I missed that one :lol:

Steve

arn't you suposed to be gone?:mrgreen:

Steve