baby box fish at Big al's
 

was there on sunday, they had a few baby yellow boxfish, they were like the size of a nickle.... cute :biggrin:

http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/imgs/512...0664/0085.jpeg

like this guy but tiny

Actually that's a long horn cowfish. Same family though :biggrin: If you get one & it looks stressed or dying, take it out pronto because they release a toxin that will wipe out your tank.

Anthony

ahh ok.. :cool:

cowfish aren't as likely to have a toxin as a regular boxfish. I think the only documented occassion this has happened was written by Bob Fenner and I haven't heard any since or even prior. If you do a search on these I think you will find the "toxin" release is an over-exaggeration for the most part bordering on myth which gets perpetuated through the internet by people who haven't had experience wiht them but have heard stories of this. Like many things in this hobby sadly enough. "If I heard about it on the internet it must be true". :rolleyes:

I had two get stung by a massive carpet anemone with one being killed and the othert surviving. no toxins. the survivor was stung a second time and survived and still no release. Both of these cowfish were over 5" long. There used to be a cowfish group on MSN and you will hear of many whom have had these fish pass away with very few/no instances of toxins. For all the cows I have seen sold in this area alone I have yet to hear of anyone with a first hand toxin experience.

FWIW

I will add that yes there are boxfish that do have this potential and I have seen instances of this happeneing. But with cowfish I have never seen or even heard of this happening other than Bob Fenners one report.

I believe that these fish have been lumped in with others by mistake and it has stuck. Regretfully. They are some of the best fish to keep IMO IME. But they do grow fast and large so you WILL ned a big tank for them. They make a big mess and will taste and munch on anything that suddenly is interesting to them.

exactly..a myth i had a boxfish dying for days, and then finally die....no ill effects to the other fish occured.

i remember hearing about the "deadly toxin" back in the 80's long before the web ever got ahold of it.

:confused:

Not sure what your point is willow.

That myths existed prior to the 'net? Yeah they did. Word of mouth is just as bad for letting these myth-truths move right along.

Do you have some personal experiences to add? Insights?

Or do you prefer to be among those who perpetuate and just add what they have heard along with any other wives tale they feel is relevant?

Actually, I was at a LFS when a boxfish died & was released into a container with a bunch of other fish. Over the next couple of days, everything in that one box died. Cause of death was traced back to that dead boxfish since all other parameters in the different containers were fairly equal. Since they're in the same family, I still wouldn't risk letting one die in my tank just to disprove a "myth". Not sure how toxic long-horn cowfish are compared to boxfish. I'm tempted to get one because they are so irresistably cute :redface:

Anthony

what happaned darren did you get canned from rc, is that why you are back with us lonely ol' peeps?

Well firstly.. Boxfish and Cowfish are from different genus of animals completely. Lactoria cornuta is the longhorned cowfish. Ostracion sp. is the genus for the boxfish you see in the stores. Different fish. Different families. So throwing a blanket statement over a bunch of fish just because they are called "boxfish" by stores doesn't mean they are the same thing.

Usually when a boxfish releases it isn't a slow lingering death of occupants. It's pretty sudden and traumatic. Trust me.

A couple of years ago I spent a lot of time talking to other Longhorned Cowfish owners. Several actually who had experiences as I have with these fish passing on. On two occasions one of the group brought home fish from LFS's that were not in the best of health with the intention of nursing them back as he had done on prior occasions. Neither of these two survived and niether released any toxins. Even after being in the tank for awhile after death.

With my two Longhorned Cows both sustained very serious trauma due to being stung by an 18" carpet anemone. One was the anemone overnight and had quite obvioulsy struggled for a while. No release. The other cow was stung twice, once that same night and once a short while later. I sold it to someone without any anemones and the last time I had spoken to them was doing very well and had grown by 2".

I guess it comes down to looking to those with past expereinces that don't follow with the "myth" and seeing that quite possibly there is differences and maybe they would be better served clearing the air rather than confusing the issue.

Happen to me before I had it 3 months ago in a 29 gallon tank because it is growing fast i decided to move my cowfish to a bigger tank 60 gallon which i cycle for a month ....the next day I found it dead and all of its tank mate.

I am not sure why my cowfish died but one thing I am sure off is that
cowfish is as toxic as other boxfish.

:lol:

:lol:

Far from it. But I don't see how that is of any of your concern. :lol: I'd tell my friends things that transpire in my life online and offline. I don't see you being one of those so what happens in my life is my business.

But I guess when one can't carry on a discussion. They take a shot.. ;)

Cheers Willow.. :lol:

I had my cowfish get sucked up & stuck against the powerhead. I am not sure how long it was there before I pulled it off but I figure it was probably quite stressed. No ill effects to the tank so far.

So Adidas,

Did you break down & get a longhorn cowfish? They are cute. Too bad they're not reef-safe.

Darren,

Do a search on wetwebmedia & you will see lots of people who had their tanks wiped out by dying cowfish. Yes, cowfish are less toxic & less likely to exude Ostracitoxin than boxfish but there is still a risk, as these people found out. I'm glad that you & your friends had good luck with stressed out & dying cowfish without triggering this extreme reaction. My position is "why take a chance?" If I had a dying or stressed out cowfish, I would take it out just in case. I thought it would be prudent to mention this risk for those who are interested.

As for the LFS incident, the owner tried moving the fish that were still alive into other tanks & containers but eventually they still succumbed. That was a boxfish, not a cowfish, that died originally.

Anthony

hahah . the truth .

I had a box fish die in one of my tanks a while back and it had no ill effects. And It never bothered any corals, so im not sure why they arnt called reef safe also it never hurt a crab or shrimp either.

If my tank was cycled completely i would. i'm going to big al's in a bit, wonder if they are still there :cool:

Wow, you guys have to lighten up. :rolleyes:


The names cowfish, boxfish, and trunkfish are often used interchangeably. Whatever name you want to use, they all have the ability to release Ostracitoxin. So yes, there is "THE RISK", which most people are afraid to take. But will it wipe out your whole tank, most likely not. There are very few cases of it happening but again they do have the ability, so thats why it’s still considered to be a risk to great for some hobbiest to chance.

I have treated others boxfish/cowfish and house these fish as well and over the years I have never had one release Ostracitoxin.

There are many more reasons besides THE RISK, that many people are warned off these fish but they were not mentioned but should be considered. Reasons below are:

1. They grow fairly large quickly. Example full grow the long horned cowfish & Ostracion cubicus.aka yellow boxfish can reach up to 18 inches The only one I have found not commonly collected is the Helmet Cowfish that grows to only 4-5inchs fully grown.

2. They can't go in BB tanks. Cowfish, as with other boxfish, uncover their meals of crabs and shrimps by blowing jets of water into the sand with their mouths. (Very cool to watch)

3. NOT Reef-safe. They will eat inverts (crabs, shrimp, etc) when older. When small at pet store their mouth is way to small to try to eat inverts, although I have experienced them try, they do little to no damage when small.

4. They don't do well in a tank that’s heavily stocked or with fast moving fish (i.e tangs, wrasse, etc) Never put a cleaner wrasse with a boxfish/cowfish as they hate them being near them. In the wild they are loner fish and keep to their selves. They are also slow swimmers, so not able to move fast to get out of the way of fast moving fish. They tend to be easy target to get bullied as well.

5. They can't be in a tank with heavy water flow, (power heads) Although Their unique method of swimming, called ostraciform swimming, causes them to look as if they are hovering but cowfish/boxfish do not swim well and would get blown around in to heavy of flow. They get easily exhausted, as stressed again they are not good swimmer.

But Cowfish, Boxfish are one of my favorite fish and under the right tank conditions I would recommend them to anyone. They one of the most interesting fish to watch, not to mention they are extremely smart & very personable fish. As they will spend most of their time watching to see what your doing with their marble blue/green eyes. :lol:



:mrgreen: