Bare Bottom Tanks
 

Hey everyone :)

I was just wondering if anyone could give me the pros and cons of bare bottom tank setups. I'm cycling a 15 gallon right now and its currently a bare bottom. Does this limit what you can stock the tank with?

Oh does anyone use Chemipure?

BB tanks are advantageous because you can put in a large amount of flow through your tank without kicking up a sandstorm. Having a large amount of flow allows you to keep detritus suspended in the water column for your filters to take out (ie. skimmers, sumps, foam, etc.). This in turn helps you keep your tank cleaner (assuming you have a good upkeep routine for your filtration devices). Some corals also like large amount of water movement (read as flow, not velocity).

I'm sure other people will probably chime in, but thats my general thought on BB systems. I run one, and I like it.

-Rich

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I don't like the idea for a couple of reasons

1. I think we should provide an environment close to the ocean and this includes sand.

2. The sand bed is "alive" thus an important part of your eco system.

JMO

the only disadvantage and it may only apply to certain people is the look, I am used to the look now and kinda like it more than the sane. as mentioned above, easier maintenance, allows better dispersed water flow, gives you more "tank" that is usable.

as for providing a natural environment, this depends on what kind of fish you want to keep, some live exclusively in the sand, some never see sand and some can do with both. but 4 glass walls is definitely not a natural environment so go for what you like.

as for the sand bed being alive, I was of this school once, and if you search back you will probably find I was one of the biggest proponents of sand beds on this board, but now I would never have one again unless I was setting up a specific tank for something that needs sand. my smaller tank is an example of this as I have a fighting conch in it and until he dies he will have sand, but my SPS tank is bare bottom and aside from some green hair algae is very sanitary. The problem with the life in the sand bed is that acording to the good Dr. Ron (who started this sand bed craze) we can only support 10% of the number and viriaty of "bugs" that it takes to make a sand bed work properly.

a good comparison for Bare bottom VS sand is my two tanks, both are hooked to the same water supply and the bare bottom tank is sanitary compared to the sand one. In the SPS tank there is what is left of a hair algae outbreak from when I removed the sand and restarted the tank, but it is only still there for two reasons, well one reason my laziness :mrgreen: anywhere I have manually removed it, it has not grown back but then again you can hardly see into that tank due to the Coraline algae growth on the glass (another point of my laziness of late) as Brad can attest to. now the other tank has some funky brown velvet algae, hair algae, cyno, ect and it has the sand bed. remember same sump connects both tanks so they receive the same filtration, additives, ect. and both are stocked with approximately the same amount of rock/gal. the only difference is flow and the substrate.

Don't get me wrong both tanks look nice (if you could see through the Coraline algae) but I think over all the bare bottom is a much cleaner tank.

Steve

I'll vouch for Steve, he is certainly lazy these days. And the other stuff he said I'd attest to!! :razz:

I don't know weather to thank you or kick ya :mrgreen:

Steve

Steeve, im guessing the lower flow is in the tank with the sand-bed? With higher flow the algae tends to be discouraged. But im not arguing that sand-beds are better. Im making a prop-system soon, and It is going to be BB(except for the fuge).

Chris

well kinda not really, the hair algae I have in the SPS tank is directly in front of the tunze I placed to blow along the bottom, so I have algae in the highest flow area. I think this is because the flow is creating an O2 rich area along the rocks but I could be out to lunch also. also the rocks have a lot of detritus that I never got off them in that area. but as I pull the algae it is taking the crap with it and leaves clean rock.

the small tank has about a 10X turnover but is a 3 year old sand bed. I believe that the bed has adsorbed so many nutrients that they are now starting to come out. because sand beds cannot function properly in a home environment (as mentioned above... to little bugs and not enuf types) the theory now is they act like a nutrient sink, adsorbing and adsorbing until they are full. because we can not make the function properly they cannot get rid of the junk but only store it and eventually it hits a critical mass where it cannot adsorb anymore. Also with a BB allowing you to have a much higher flow rate though out the tank you can cause crap to be suspended in the water column making it easier to be removed by the skimmer which is also why I think my SPS tank is doing better than the other.

Steve

We have three BB tanks, a 37g, a 67g and a 120g. Had them up for a year. Previously, all our tanks, ranging in size from 2.5g to 180g all had sandbeds. Would never go back to using sand as I now consider them detritus traps.

Here's a thread that, partway down, has pics of the amount of detritus we siphon out of our 67g on a weekly basis:

http://www.canreef.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16978

Thanks for all the info :lol:
I've noticed alot of stuff on the bottom of my tank and all I have right now is live rock.

You will notice stuff end up on the bottom of your tank with just rock, I would think i would just be silt and small amounts of detritus produced from whatever is living in the rock.

I went BB and will never go back to a sand bed. I do my weekly water change and siphon the bottom of whatever detritus is there. Unless you are keeping sandbed-living fish such as shrimp gobies or something, there is no reason to keep a sand bed as long as you have live rock. Unless you like the sand bed look better... personally I enjoy the BB look better, plus I don't have to look at 3-4" of sand in the front of my tank.

I was thinking of getting a catilina gobie for my tank after the cycle

Catalina gobies are actually temperate water species, will not do well in a reef tank.

Remember that Catalina gobies are from more temperate waters (California coast) and do best at temperatures around 60 degrees F. I think the highest they can tolerate is 74F but not for long. You'd have to pretty much plan your tank around them.

Christy :)

Thanks

Does anyone have any suggestions on types of fish that would be suitable for my tank size 15L

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This stood out in my mind...What he didn't tell you that has been recently dicovered is that the 10% of those "bugs" account for about 85 to 90% of the denitrification process, all of which occures withing the first 3/4 inches of sand in an aquarium.

I'm not taking sides with the issue as I almost went bare bottom with my new tank. Instead I went with a 1 inch bed and utilize a diverse cleanup crew. I enjoy watching those little guys almost as much as the fish, thus I have placed more importance on a sandbed.

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is this a new development that you need bugs for denitrification? the sand alone will denitrify with bacteria no need for pods, worms ect. and what was meant for a working sand bed is long term like 15 years ect.. if you have the right bugs ie. the little est one eats the bacteria that breakdown the nitrate, and a bigger one eats that and so on and so on until the fish are the last of the removal chain then theoretically a sand bed will be self sustaining and never plug up. this is what cannot happen in our tanks and it is why after anywhere from 1 to 5 years most sand beds start creating more problems than they solve. so there are no bugs needed for nitrification only a pours surface of the right depth and bacteria, hence this is why rock works just as good and is the original filter. but yes I agree bugs are fun to watch and I have just as many mysis, pods, worms as I did in the sand bed, is just that I am getting old and can't stay up that late to watch them anymore hehe :mrgreen:

Steve

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So, do you recommend replacing a sand bed at least once every 5 years?
(I don't think I would care for BB).

Actually, by the time you've changed one out after 4-5 years, you will not ever want to repeat the experience (ime :wink:)

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So with my BB tank, how does one explain 0 ppm NO3? Sand CAN be home to bacteria, but inthe absence of sand, more than enough "bugs" exist on and in the rock to perform denitrification.

Do you mean to say that it is such a huge job that you think I would rather put up with a BB than change sand every 5 years? :sad:

"put up with" is rather negative, but ya, removing a DSB is way more trouble than you'd think.
I'm really loving the look of my BB tank now. At first I was a bit unsure, but I like it a lot now. With 6000gph of flow in the tank, I don't have any choice, but BB would be my choice regardless.

Its the smell :wink:

Yah, outhouse sludge... :eek:

Is that because after time you get coralline algae growing on it and it doesn't look BB anymore?

Real bad? Nothin' a little respirator mask wouldn't take care of?

(There oughta be a pukin' smiley).

This is the stuff the neighbors slam their windows shut for..... :lol:

http://www.smilieportal.de/smilies/ekelig/1/2.gif

http://www.smilieportal.de/smilies/ekelig/1/8.gif

Sounds like I'll be goin' BB in 2010! :frown:

Christy: Funny smileys. I take it they are from a download you did and not from this board? (Kinda new to actually using the internet in an interactive sense).

http://www.smilieportal.de/

Its all German, but you can figure them out. Lots to choose from :wink:

Thanx!

Nope, it just doesn't look bad period. When I look in the tank, I'm looking at fish and corals and rock and the bugs running around on the rock. The bottom does grow coralline, but I tend to scrape it off.

you just like to torture your hermits on the ice rink hey :razz:

I thought I was sailing off the edge of the known world when we went BB in our three tanks. But after a year with no sand, I certainly to agree that the BB looks just fine, with or without coralline. Never though of scraping the coralline off the bottom, but it would make crud siphoning easier. Good tip :biggrin:

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nope, every year I would do it.

Steve

I just finished removing my POO bed... I couldn't get the whole tank deconstructed in one day so I ended up leaving it overnight... Big mistake... HOLY POO HOUSE batman :eek: I moved everything into a 54 that will become my sump... with the intention of cleaning my sandbed... saw how the BB looked smelled the POO coming from the old tank :idea: decision made
I may add a shallow SB in the future but for now its BB all the way

Does having the bare bottom create buffering concerns for PH levels?

The tank as a whole has been a lot more stable since the sand bed was removed... I have a lot of sps and no Ca treactor so I am adding buffered ca solution "aragamilk" anyone ever used it ?... awesome stuff the polyps on the sps are way out :cool: but anyhow... I love the BB loiok and levels already :biggrin: