Off leash parks - what's with people?!
 

[rant]
I've got to ask... Why does it seem like the world cares only about themselves?

Went to the offleash park near my house this afternoon. City park - posted offleash area... On 3 seperate occasions I had people yelling at me to put my dog on a leash - why? Because their own dogs were poorly trained, disobedient - or dog aggressive!

Many of you have met my pup - friendly as they come. And very well trained if I do say so myself. He won't approach another animal if I don't allow it. He'll drop into a sit/stay even when there's a tasty rabbit to chase. So why did I have to call him over, grab him by the collar - just because some other nitwits can't be bothered to properly train their animals? End result is ruining my time at the park - because their animals aren't properly trained... If you can't have your dog offleash at an OFFLEASH PARK - take it anywhere but an offleash park for gods sake!

And oh my god... The landmines - what is so hard about picking up after your own dog!?!?!?! There are bags full of safeway bags at the parking lot - there are dumpsters provided!

:rolleyes: The more people I encounter (non reefers of course) the more I love my dog!

[/rant]

Well, to be honest with you, you are not the only one what feels like that, and has had to deal with that. Most people, (and I know that I'm going to get flamed by this comment, but, it seems to be true), that don't own dogs, attack dog owners on a regular basis. THEN, to add insult to injury, some people who do own dogs, as you mentioned, don't take the time to train their dogs, and then we hear about these dogs on the news... so, what ends up happening is good and responsible dog owners get attacked by everyone, even when we are taking our dogs ON LEASH, and when they are on OFF LEASH areas!

I'm not sure what type of dog you have, but, if you want to have your hands full with ignorant, (that's about as PC as I'm going to get :evil: ), people, check this out... I have a 10 year old female rottie. She's the sweetest "puppy" I know, but, as soon as people see her, they immediately assume that she's a dangerous dog! Thank you media. My other dog is an Italian Mastiff... got him from a rescue shelter because the previous owner couldn't beat him enough to be obedient.... I've had Bruno, my mastiff, for almost 4 years now, and he's made great strides towards being a good dog... but, because of his size, he's got to be a "dangerous dog". I'll post pics later of this "dangerous dog" getting beaten up by my 2 year old :biggrin: .

Bottom line, these days, people who want dogs but abuse them, or don't put the time and effort into them, give the rest of us a bad name, and then, bring the media into it, and now your day goes from bad to worse. While it's nice to know that I'm not the only one that experiences this, it's sad that responsible dog owners, have to take the brunt of it. Andy, the next time some tries to let you have it because you have a good dog, remind them that ALL dogs are born good, it's dumb people that make them bad :exclaim: Not to mention that their ancestors would not have made it to this "civilized" age, if it were not for dogs.

Ok, so I went into a little rant as well :redface: , but hey, I love my dogs, and they are a part of my family and it drives me up the wall, when "intelligent" people try to make the dumbest point when it comes to dogs. Good luck Andy, and may you and your dog have a long and happy life together.

Robert

Ya, I have an Akita, same thing. Everyone has heard about how Akitas are agressive on the news, and how they eat every other animal they can catch. Uh-huh. My dog got beat up once by a terrier, and once he got a bit of a talking to by a cat, but I still get everyone pulling their kids and dogs away from mine.
I've learned to take my dog out and enjoy my outing, and not pay any attention to negative comments and attitudes.

<----- Woof woof to that ! :biggrin:

Like Brad, when Im out walking my big puppy Zeus(Great Dane) alot of people act like he has already started to eat them and we are on the other side of the street still..... Zeus gives new meaning to the term big baby....

What I've learned in the past little while is that the bigger the dog, the bigger the heart they have, (and I'm not referring to their physical heart :biggrin: ). Talk to most Vets and they'll tell you that the little dogs are nick named "land sharks", as they are more likely to bite them, (granted, a bite from a large dog will hurt more, but, it's really infrequent). Oh well, the media will do it's part to tell the rest of the world your big dog is dangerous, and if you don't happen to have a small toy dog, (no offence to people who own one), then you must be a bad person as well :confused: .

Brad, I didn't know you had an Akita, (should have guessed it from the avitar :redface: )... Almost got one myself before I got Bruno, but they were described to shed a ton, twice a year.... couldn't get that one past my wife :biggrin: . As for aggressiveness, I've just hear that they are completley loyal... not sure how that can be translated to aggressiveness, (although, with lack of proper training, they can be animal aggressive... but then again, so can any dog).

Nice to see that so many people that have marine tanks, have dogs... seems like a great mix to me :biggrin: .

Brad, your akita looks amazing!

I hate how dog ignorant people can be. Especially dog owners. Bah.

I find it hard to believe any dog is inherently dangerous or bad, just the owner is bad. Like riced up cars... a car is a car, its the driver that causes problems or not...

Thanks, but my avatar is actually a pic of one of his sisters. I can't tell the difference, but technically that's a "stand-in" !

I got the same problem with my Irish setter. Even though she is gentle and more trustworthy with kids than our pomeranian, people are still yelling at me to put my dog on a leash when i am walking by river. I see other dogs give the "whoa" comand, my dog sits and their dog runs up to mine. After that all i get is screaming about how i should better train my dog and get it on a leash. I hate people that do that. No wonder i run her where we hunt no on to bother me and it is practice for her.

My friend Kathy from Calgary used to get people cross to the other side of the street when she walked her dogs. Her dogs were:

a ****-a-poo (Yogi) & a tri-colour Cocker Spaniel (BooBoo).

Now that's ignorance. Yogi was almost human :biggrin: & you mainly had to worry about BooBoo being so happy to see you that she'll pee all over your pant legs :rolleyes:

I didn't believe her until I took her dogs for a walk (on leash) and saw these reactions for myself.

Anthony

Part of the problem with peoples attitudes is the media hype whenever a dog does attack, the media make the world a lot scarier place then it actually is.
Also, I do have some dogs that come in all scarred up after being attacked by dogs not on leash. While i am on the dogs side, we do have to respect other people fears, sometimes there are good reasons for it :biggrin:

Off leash parks are provided as a place to let your dog off leash. If you have children who are afraid of dogs or if you yourself are afraid of dogs you should avoid these areas. If you have a dog who should not be let off leash then the same thing, You should avoid off leash areas. There are many parks etc where dogs can be walked on leash but if you own a dog who is aggressive and you can't handle it you need to rethink owning a dog. Remember dog obiedience? it's not to teach the dog it's to teach the owners how to work with their dogs.
My peeve is with people who try to teach their dogs by beating the hell out of them. Be consistant, if you can't handle your dog then lets be honest, you're the pet. Dogs make great pets but you have to be willing to invest time in training and companionship. Spend time with your dog, reward good behavior and for pete sakes pick up the scat.

Doug

I know I know.. what am I doing in this thread? :rolleyes: Anyways I totally agree with you people on the no leash parks, if thats what they are then that really needs no argument. Those parks/places should be there for those people/dogs that enjoy that.
Though the thread moved in a bit of a different direction. AS a person that doesn't tend to trust dogs I have a slightly different opinion.(and I know where all alloud to have them) :smile: There really is only a few dogs that I tend to feel comfortable around and the rest I tend to be leary off. I'm sure Brad would agree as I beleive I asked him if he'd mind putting his dog in a different room while I visited. AS a person that tends to get a little scared/nervous around dogs I've had my share of uncomfortable situations. So it's far better to simply try and aviod them when possible.

I've been bitten a few times from dogs and I guess the worst was only 3 stitches. I've also seen dogs attack other dogs and I've seen a dog attach a cat. And yes I've seen the media reports. That stuff does happen. NOw I'm not saying all dogs I'm just sharing my experience. So if you came up to me on a beach with a large type dog(unleashed) depending on my first instinct. I may just ask you put it on a leash or I may not even be that nice. First off I don't know you and second I don't know the dog . Its far safer for me to do what I've said. I'd also more then likely cross the street if you where walking a larger type dog as well. Thats just me and my experience telling me thats the smartest thing to do. Call me a chicken if you wish. :lol:

There is no doubt dogs are great companions and like you all have said most dogs are good dogs and I agree I'm just not that talented in picking out the bad ones. :)

I guess what I'm saying is I prefer to be on the other side of the fence. (Pun intended) oh and yes I was a paper boy as a kid which may play a factor in my thoughts. :smile:

Jamie, the first thing I though of while reading your post was the rottie in the cage at your old place. That was one scarey dog. I'm not sure how you ever went out your door with that thing out there!! :razz:

But you're right, as a dog owner, I also have to respect that some people are chicken (your word :biggrin: ) and I have no problem leashing or hiding my dog for them. My kids have friends that are afraid of dogs, so pooch gets shuffled off when they're here.

But, you come to the "free range" park for dogs, and you're likely to run into a dog dropping by to say hi.

Hey Brad, You know I've forgotten all about that dog now. :biggrin: Next time your over remind me to get my wife to tell you a story or to about what a "chicken" I am regarding the dog in the cage. For what it's worth thats the one that gave me three stitches.

Heres one of the stories. Shortly after we moved into the basement siute, Taryn and I where sitting down having dinner and the owners let the dog out to go for a walk. Well sure enough it came barreling into our siute. We'll I simply went the other way and hid in the bedroom. Yes I just left the wife sitting at the table. I know...I still get bugged on ocasion about that one. But as you know it was one big/mean dog. I must say even dog lovers were scared of that dog though. Oh and trust me you won't see me at a "free range park".

Too funny!! Ya, I've never been afraid of any dog until I saw that one. It must have been 160 pounds of snarling teeth. I remeber the bone it had in the cage....musta been a thigh bone from a dinosuar or something :eek:

I have to disagree with the consensus in this thread about dogs.

Dog owners need to understand how non-dog-lovers fell about their "harmless" pets.

When I was about 10 I was attacked by a German Shepherd. Of course it was a "harmless" dog who "would never hurt anyone". After it jumped the fence and attacked me in my front yard it was put down.

Many times I see people with Rottweillers and Pit Bulls off leash on city streets or in public parks. Sometimes I tell them to put them on a leash, most times I just put the kids in the car and take them back home.

Of course the chance that one of these dogs will attack my kids is only about one in a thousand. What parent would take a 1/1000 chance of having their kid mauled by a Rottweiller?

In my opinion savage "macho" dogs like Rottweillers, Pit Bulls etc should be banned. No they are not harmless, please do not put my children at risk by owning a dog breed with a documented history of killing and maiming people.

:rolleyes:

It's the thinking of people such as yourself that give certain breeds of dogs their "macho"(as you so elliquently put it) status.

If you had done the smallest bit of reaserch into this subject you'd realize that a bann should be placed on irresponsible ownership and NOT on a specific breed in general.

Fact of the matter is that in places where these banns have been put in place the incidence of attacks on humans(By the banned breed.) has dropped, but only because the breed is no longer there. These numbers are soon up with other breeds becoming the attackers.(Because people are going to have dogs, wether others like it or not.)

Do you remember when Dobermans where the bad ones? That's only because the breed was very popular. Now you hear very little(If anything at all about them.).

I've had around and owned Rottweilers and Sheaperds for my entire life and can tell you that yes there are some that should not be kept as pets. But most of these are a result of poor ownership and training rather than poor breeding. (I'm not saying that breeding does not play a role either.)

The problems we see are more to do with poor ownership, inadaquate housing and most of all lack of training. All of these problems are dwarfed when you have people keeping multiples of any large breed dog running around their property and calling them family pets. (Did you ever hear of a pack? Contrary to popular beliefes after thousands years of breeding they still have a very strong pack instinct, large or small breed.)

What is needed is some laws with bite to make owners ultimately accountable for the actions of their dogs.

The caged Rottweiler in Jamie's post is a prime example of poor ownership and a dog that has not been socialized at all. What would expect from a person that has been kept in a room with minimal contact from the outside world? I can tell you that people that have lived much like this do not usualy have an impressive life history to say the least.

Should we bann all people of arabic decent from air travel? After all, they do have the highest doccumented history of terorist activities. I don't think you can put them all into one group because some of them where taught wrong.

Hmm, I actually got my daughter a rottweiller. Guess I'm a bad parent, eh? :rolleyes:
I've typed about 9 repsonses to your post, but I can't actually post any of them.

I don't quite understand the anger at my post.

Certain breeds are clearly large enough, strong enough, and aggressive enough to easily kill a man. If a pit bull got hold of me I would not have a chance unless I were carrying a weapon. What is so wrong with me wanting to protect my children, ages 1, 3, and 5?

If we banned pit bulls, Rottweillers, and other breeds with a history of fatal attacks on humans, I don't think that Chihuahua's and poodles would suddenly start mauling people to death. Yes these smaller breeds of dogs do bite, but the difference is their bites are not likely to cause death or severe injury.

Breed-specific bans, combined with mandatory liability insurance for dog owners, have worked in places where they have been instituted. It is unfortunate that it will take the deaths of one or two more kids in B.C. before breed-specific bans are instituted here.

http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&ned...nG=Search+News

http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&ned...nG=Search+News

In all the stories that I read the dogs are running free, you very rarly read about a dog mauling someone when he is on a leash So where would you start the "bred ban" Dogs over 150 lbs or 100lbs or 75lbs or even 35lbs. What constutes a harmfull bred? I have see some very mean toy poodles that could take a "chunk" out of your leg. They are know to have a temper.

There are bull dogs they are in the small dog catagory I think but very powerfull and they can take a person down and they come in around 20-30 lbs

You also have medium size dogs like kashound (sp) not a musle dog but still strong enuf to take a person down and they are also fast on there paws

I have a 120 lb Bull Mastiff and I would trust him (and I do) with my kids before a toy poodle. They rode him like a pony, they slid on him off the couch like a slide and he didn't even bat an eye. You come up to my fence and he will stare you in the face and scare the pants right off of you and you would not step foot in my yard or house. The worst thing he has done is steal a hotdog out of my kids hands ( when they were 3 or 4 ...can't remember)and left his slimy calling card :mrgreen: .

I also beleve that people should be accountable for there pets. In most (99%) the stories that I read the dogs are running free, you very rarly read about a dog mauling someone when he is on a leash

So where I am going with this, any dog givin the right training can either kill a person or love his owner with all his heart. :cool:


Now you want to see an aggressive pet...... give a cat a bath :mrgreen:

All dogs have the same jaw pressure no matter what the size, if it has teeth it can bite. If you ban large aggressive breeds, the people that have "bad" rotts will have a pack of nasty cocker spaniels instead. It should be all about MAKING people accountable for their pets actions including jail time should it prove neccesary.

Honestly, what I think should happen is licensing of some sort being a requirement before dog ownership. It's not the dog's fault, its the owners fault. Poor training, poor socialisation create the problem.

Saying you can't own a certain breed of dog because they are large is like saying you cant own a big truck or a suv or a fast car because a little hybrid is fast enough for our speed limits. :)

Imagine you were required to pass an exam for having kids? That'd be awesome :) </sarcasm>

What a tangent this thread has taken... Go from whining/complaining about inconsiderate dog owners to breed bans.

FWIW - even as a dog owner - I do support a breed ban on Pitbulls - I was on the receiving end of a pitbull attack. If you've ever seen one go on the attack up close and personal - you'd understand my posiition - the one who attacked me ended up with 3rd degree burns on his paws (hot exhaust of landscaping equipment), broken ribs (courtesy of my steel toes), a separated shoulder (jumping off the roof of the shed). And he still cleared an 8' fence and nearly ran me and the neighbour down before we could get in the safety of his house. For me, it was a few days in hospital a couple skin grafts, and a 100 or so stitches.

At the court proceedings - those owners had dozens of witnesses about how wonderful he was; and how he'd never hurt a fly. Show dog, well trained, well kept - still a vicious animal.

There are some breeds that have just had too much aggression bred into them, and that breeding still continues today (Pit bulls are still used for their "Intended" purpose even to this day - if you don't believe me - there's some writeups on the ASPCA website about dog fights).

I can't say I've ever met anyone afraid of my pup - but he's so cute, you just can't be afraid of him.

Andy

and they made the list of top 10 deadly dogs also that was on TLC about 3 weeks ago (think they were number 4 or 5)

but as the show also emphasized, that anyone who buys a large breed and especially one that has a tendency to be over protective weather it is against humans who it doesn't know or other dogs, also has a huge responsibility to take the time and train it properly. this also doesn't mean taking it to a bunch of classes but to continue to work with the dog and maintain its training through out its life.

Steve

Not true Rottys have the strongest jaws for a dog I cannot remeber the LBS/squar inch but it was unreal.

Why ban a breed. Just make laws saying they have to be muzzled. Here in Taber there are 5 breeds that when taken out of your yard you have to be 16 or over, the dog has to be muzzled, and the leash cannot suceed 6 feet in length. But still you hear of dog attacks. It is Dumb a$$ people who lose a ball in someones back yard dont see the dog and jump in. The dog is only doing what it is suposed to be doing, Gaurding the house. Now dont get me wrong there are dogs out there that would nab you if you were walking down the street. I live on the edge of a school feild. If you came running up to my back fence my setter would bark snarl but wont bite if you jumped over but this is because of the hours and hours of training i have put into her to teach her not to do this. It is people who think it is cool to have a breed that will attack other dogs and children.

Some dogs brains also get too large for their head, rotty for example, and the dog goes nuts not the person or the dogs fault it just happens.

When people come to my house they see my setter which stands 30 inches and are scared to death of it, They then see my pom 12 inches high and love her. I love to see the looks on thier faces when i tell them to watch out she bites and the big one dont. I would rather have my setter around kids than the pom. Size dont matter in the dog neither does the breed it is the owner and the type of training they put into the dog that "makes" the animal.
Over all what i am saying is take the time train the dog properly, Put it away if someone asks you. If you dont like dogs stay away from off leash parks.

thats a myth, not true. they turn bad because people don't continue the training and atention.

Steve

There's absollutly nothing wrong with protecting your children.(You'd be a poor example of a parent if you didn't.)

BUT!!!

Should the rest of the world not keep large breed dogs so you have peace of mind? After all you are teaching your children to stay clear of stray's and property with dogs on it, aren't you? (I don't know about you, but my kids do not trust any strange dog, large or small.)

Do you think it's our governments job to make sure I don't have a dog that could be possibly mean tempered on my property or in my home?(Just to apease a very fickle minority)

I for one don't think so.

FYI, keeping your children safe also involves teaching them to avoid all dangers(including dogs) and knowing where they are every minute of every day untill your 100% sure that they've learned these things that you've taught them.

I'm not going to speak my mind as I normaly would because I have a tendancy to ruin a thread when I do so.

I just hope that your opinion isn't shared by our lawmakers.

I can tell you this as a parent and a Rottweiler owner. No matter what our lawmakers and government say, the only way they will ever get me to give up my dog is to pull the leash out of my cold dead hand!

Have a nice day. :smile:

THis thread is everywhere first from off leash parks to what breeds are dangerous to why dogs attack to being a good parent.

I second that.

huh? :confused:
And i believe that would be 40lbs jaw pressure, the same as chihuahuas and great danes :biggrin:

I will also try to keep my comments more tame than they would be if this was a discussion at the pub :neutral:

If someone enters an off-leash park they should expect and be prepared to meet many dogs of different temperments. This winter I was involved in a shoving match with a jogger who overeacted to my border collie / blue heeler cross running by him. I don't take kindly to people trying to kick members of my family.

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a farming environment where dogs were a necessary part of the work force and the best playmate and guardian a boy could hope for. I realize not everyone can "read" dogs like myself or others who know them well and are therefore frightened by what they percieve as aggressive behaviour or scary looks. Dogs have an uncanny ability to sense this apprehension and react to it by reinforcing their dominant position awarded to them by the scared individual, and it escalates from there. It's instinct on the dogs part, nothing we can do about it. We can, however, teach our children the proper way to respct and understand these animals we share our homes, parks and cities with. I fear that our increasingly urban society is losing a lot of our natural connection with the same animals we created to help us tame, prosper and enjoy this world.

I wish there was a plausible way to test, evaluate and train prospective dog owners, but where would you start? and what would the limitations be? Therefore the only reasonable solution is integrating all dog breeds into our society with their owners fully responsible for their care and special requirements. If that means some large / dangerous / black and scary dogs need to be muzzled when in public, so be it. I think that's a decent compromise. If a dog jumps a fence and kills a child I think the owner should be held responsible for more than a monetary punishment. If a huge, hideous, rotti / pitbull / doberman / mastiff / mutt is being used as a pillow by a couple children snoozing in their yard while their watchdog keeps an alert eye for intruders, then I think that dog's owner should be commended, not scorned.

I forgot to mention......
My guns would have to be taken first! :eek: (And they'd probably be hot and empty!)

second that one too. With the ammount of shells i got downstairs it would take all day.

No offense marie but you are wrong read the little colum under the photo
http://www.edba.org.au/courier.html

http://www.angelfire.com/md3/jorgeju...rotttiger.html

ok Ryan you make this statment then you post two examples that show rottys do not have the strongest jaw, infact they don't even have 1/2 of the pit bulls. are you having type O's here or what?

Steve

Opps i knew i forgot to do somthing. I was in a hurry i ment to corrrect myself there too sorry. But you can see the jay pressure of these canines is unreal.

The problem with most pets is not the strength of their jaw, or their innate aggressive behaviour, nor the shear size of them. The problem is the owner.

Most aggressive people won’t settle for a little maltese, or a pug; they want a big bad mean looking 100 lb + animal that is going to instil fear in as many people as possible. What happens when you have an aggressive or inattentive owner with any animal, or child for that matter?

Truthfully an untrained pit-bull may be more of a risk than an untrained dachshund, but the breed in itself is not the issue. Banning on these animals is no different than people wanting to ban certain populations of people from breading.

As for requesting people to put an animal on a leash – if it’s in a public (non off leash) area, the animal should be on a leash; for the protection and comfort of both the animal and the community. I have met many an unruly child in my day, and more than one that I have witnessed kicking or otherwise hurting an unleashed animal. Funny that you don’t see dog owners picketing for leashes on children in parks….

reply
 

Of the 4 friends that I have that own dogs, there are 3 rotties, 1 pitbull boxer cross and 1 american staffie. The only dog that I would trust with my family would be the pit-boxer. This dog was rescued from an abusive family and is so timid that any sudden movement send him running to his cage. The rotties and staffie are just big clumsy oafs, like a bull in a china shop. I would consider all of them friendly because I know them and they know me, but they are big and at younger ages they don't know there own strength. They can and have injured children in playful pursute, who is to blame for this?

I won't cower to a large dog walking down the street, but believe me I am very aware of their presents. They just aren't the dog for me.

Re: reply
 

This is the dog one should have the most fear of! :eek:

Most dogs that are aggresive are known to be that way and their intentions are known by most who come in contact with them. A dog who has been abused (Had it's spirit broken) is a scared dog and is a time bomb waiting to go off. This type of dog is only siutable for owners without children and will adapt well to a to an adult lifestyle. Don't ever make the mistake of expecting a broken spirited(Beaten and abused) dog to be anything more than an adult companion.

With some large breed dogs (Rottweiler, German shepard, pitt bulls, Bull mastiff, Stafordshire terrier ect..) There is a need to reinforce your dominance as the alfa in a way that they understand. If this done with too much force or at too young of an age, the dog will be broken and that's not an easy thing to change. On the other hand if it's not done at all, you've taught the dog that it's the alfa of the pack and you will be the pet unless you take the appropriate measures to estlablish your dominance.

Anyhow Danny, while a dog may seem timid and harmless it's not as predictable as a confident and even headstronge dog. This dog is at the highest risk of attacking a human (Mostly children) because of it's fear and it's instinct to protect itself when it thinks it can.

Just some food for thought. :smile: