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Algae help needed
Currently battling a algae outbreak. Not sure if it's Dino's, calothrix or something else.
My params are Temp: 80 Salinity: 1.026 pH: 8.3 Ammonia: 0 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 Phosphates: 0 Alkalinity: 8.2 Calcium: 440 Magnesium: 1410 I have a protein skimmer running, chaeto in the sump with a light that comes on opposite to the display tank lights, feed once a day 1/4 cube of mysis or some pellets. I have increased flow and skimming. Also added a filter sock and blowing off rocks/sand daily. Haven't made any progress on it so far. How can I beat this?! Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk |
I don’t think your nitrate and phosphates are truly at zero “0”. If this was the case algae wouldn’t stand a chance and your chaeto would essentially die off. Do you have any photos of the tank in it’s current state?
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this is a common issue with new setups that lack the biological balance and stability you get a couple of years in. a lot of headway can be made by manually removing as much algae as you can prior to water changes and then sticking to your low input of nutrients. be aware that it isn't going to happen quickly so settle in and keep dedicated to the effort but also watch your coral as underfeeding the system has its own negative results. |
And here are the photos I forgot to post last night.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ba3e656bed.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ea558fe645.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ebe41fec1f.jpg Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk |
How old is the tank?
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It's been running since June. So not that old.
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Looks like a brown cyano bacteria. Your tank is very new and will most likely battle through these stages.
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I think it's partially cyano and also dinoflagellates. I brought some to j&l and I was told definitely dinoflagellates...
So I am trying 3 day blackout to see if that helps at all. Also bought some pods since I was reading they can help out by eating it as well. The dinoflagellates would explain some snail losses I have been experiencing lately. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk |
It definitely could be dino’s as well. This is common when nutrients are out of whack and a newly cycled tank. You can try a blackout although I personally think it will just be one of those things you have to ride out. Your tank just needs the time to balance out.
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I suspect you are right, but I figured trying the blackout for a few days can't hurt. Maybe it will help a little bit.
I was also told Dino's like clean water so I am going to try and bring nitrates up a bit. |
are you using rodi water ? running gfo ? I would be vacuuming the sand while doing weekly water changes , remove as much as you can manually . Stay consistent with your water changes and dosing . Stay away from adding different chemicals/aids to try and get rid of . But if you are using rodi , make sure your filters and membrane is good .
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+1 on vacuuming sand. I do this every water change - if I’m taking out water might as well be the yucky stuff. Really solved my nitrate problem when my tank was new. Also blowing off rocks with turkey baster once in a while, or brushing off rocks before vacuuming. I was too chicken to add anything to tank that I couldn’t test for. Just a lot of elbow grease and patience.
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Using RO/DI, filters are all 6 months old. I think they should be good still. Not sure how you tell. No gfo. Quote:
I have been blowing off the rocks and stirring/blowing the sand during water changes with a turkey baster. So I should be doing water changes? At j&l they all told me stop the water changes because it like very clean water so I should try to raise my nitrates a bit. Although that might be to encourage more easier to deal with algae to start growing. |
I’ve battled Dino’s and they suck. Prob the worst thing in the hobby. Firstly u need to find out what strain they are. There is a huge forum on these on reef2reef. Also Devon from “reefdudes” just posted on battling Dino’s on his Facebook page that can help too. I would start with blackout and then start dosing hydrogen peroxide (1ml per 10 gallons I believe). Filter sand everyday but don’t throw the filtered water out. Just run it through a filter sock and back into the tank. I would start dosing phosphate and nitrate and get the tank as dirty as possible to start growing other algae’s so it outcompetes them. Definitely go to reef2reef though and do some research. Good luck
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Thanks! Going through those forums now. Will hydrogen peroxide kill any pods, fish, coral in the tank? |
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I beat dinos by adding a magnum micron filter, a UV sterilizer, added daily dosages of KNO3 and turkey basted the rocks every time I saw dinos start to appear. I had to change the magnum cartridge daily when I first started. Took a couple weeks to get it under control. This worked for me, it might not work for you, every tank is different and there are many different causes of Dinos I have not ever let my nitrates and phosphates get to zero again. |
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I know see why people say don't let nitrates and phosphates get to zero. What did you use for dosing KNO3? I have been blowing off the rocks and everything with a turkey baster. Hasn't done much yet. Does keep it off the corals though. |
Potassium nitrate from a FW guy in Richmond is the "cleanest" source.
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I think you are correct. From what I have been reading, dirty water helps reduce them. They can be caused when nitrates and phosphates go down to zero(which mine appear to be). So I think my steps will be: Blackout for 3 days, currently on day 2. Increase feedings to try and help build up nitrates/phosphates Added a filter sock which I will clean daily Pickup some nitrate and or phosphate supplements to help increase them Suck up as much of the dinos as I can into a filter sock and bucket. Then return that water to the tank. Turn off skimmer? Not sure if this is needed or not. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a uv sterilizer right now. |
that may work but I would microscope those dinos to rule out some treatment methods. amphidinium are more common and considerably easier to deal with than the prorocentrum I fought for over a year.
otherwise, affordable jebao uv sterilizers can be found on eBay that only require a pump and rather than nutrient loading the system the better road to me is just to start the stability routine through an easily repeatable feeding regimen and perhaps a new fish or 2. instability may well have got this mess started and doesn't help remedy it. |
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I will have to pickup a microscope and look into those uv sterilizers. I don't have much room under the tank/in the sump so hopefully I can find one that fits. Adding a couple fish is a good idea. Dinoflagellates are only toxic to snails, correct? I'm sure instability started this. It's a relatively new tank and I am new to reefing. Figuring out what instability caused this seems to be tricky though. |
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a lot of progress can be made with just rock solid consistent feeding and resisting the temptation to change things. dinos described are toxic to "inverts" and I can confirm snails are on the list but I'm not entirely sure if it affects crabs or otherwise. there is no catch all solution for beating dinos which is why I recommend scoping them. from there you can at least make decisions based on others success instead of spending, causing instability and getting frustrated. |
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That makes sense. My tank has been running since June. So still maturing. I am trying not to change too much at once. I am blowing off the rocks more and added a filter sock. Also went from feeding 1/4 cube once a day to feeding twice a day. Hopefully to try and bring nitrate and phosphates to not be 0. I finished my 3 day blackout and the tank looks a bit better. Fish are fine, but corals aren't happy. My red plating montipora is losing tissue and my big green sps is looking very white. My tyree toadstool also isn't opening yet... Hopefully they will come back. |
Update time. Picked up some phosphate and nitrate dosing from Frogger and he let me borrow his spare Hanna phosphate checker! Thanks Frogger!!
Been dosing nitrates and phosphates for the last week. I think I need to up the dosage since nitrates still reading under 5ppm and phosphates have gone from 10ppb to 15ppb. Might up it to dosing in the morning and at night. As for the Dino's themselves, they are still there...but I am seeing more hair algae. Although it's brown until I blow off the rocks. So far the Dino's have taken its toll on my cleanup crew and some of my corals. I lost my big green SPS, plating montipora and forest fire Digi after doing the 3 day blackout. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk |
I don't think you need to go any higher on the dosing. The idea is to get readable amounts.
Right now without your cleanup crew your hair algae will take over your tank if your nutrients get any higher. Did you get the UV sterilizer? Black Friday is less than a week away. |
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From reading through the massive thread on battling dinos on reef2reef they seem to recommend ≥0.10 ppm PO4 and ≥5-10 ppm NO3. Seems to be the parameters people have the most success with. From what I can read the GHA is a sign that the tank is leveling out. There is usually a increase in the dinos, then the other algaes slowly start to grow and out compete it. I will have to try and slowly add a few cuc members back as the other algae grows to battle it. But I will wait for more of the dinos to go away first. I haven't picked up a UV sterilizer yet. I need to get my hands on a microscope first so I can see what kind of dinos I have. Apparently there is one type that doesn't get into the water column and UV sterilizers aren't useful for it. Plus I was hoping to get some hanna test kits on black friday. Will have to see. |
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as you mentioned a UV will be very effective on water column species like amphidinium and you may not even need any further treatment. this is obviously what you're hoping for as some of the people I followed had horrible issues for months and once they added the UV were able to clear their tank in the first few nights. Unfortunately, UV will have little to no effect at all on prorocentrum which stay in the substrate and where you're better off to establish an environment that encourages algae growth that is too nutrient rich for dinos. this can (and did in the case of my tank) take months where you have a really poor looking tank that is overrun with algae if you don't have something that eats a lot of it. Also, I don't know if I mentioned it earlier but you can cut a little of the toxicity your inverts take on by running a little activated carbon in the meantime. good luck! |
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I'm thinking I might try bringing a sample of the dinos to J&l and see if I can get an ID that way. Then I don't need to go out and buy a microscope. I was looking in the tank last night and I do see some dinos floating in the water. Not sure if that means they are the water column species though. I have been looking into UV sterilizers. I have very limited room under my tank, but I found a few in tank UV sterilizers that aren't expensive and have decent reviews. So I might try that if it turns out the dinos are the ones in the water column. I have found I am having trouble getting my nitrate and phosphate up and keeping it up. The stuff I got for dosing is supposed to be quite potent, but man, am I using a lot of it twice a day and numbers aren't really moving. Although I think this is to be expected for awhile. |
Question. Would a 9W in tank UV sterilizer be too small for my 75 gallon tank. I found a slightly used one for $35. Just wondering if it would be too small to be any good or not.
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I don't see a problem with raising your nutrients a bit as zero is a bad place to be for a newer system but growing copious amounts of algae isn't a good idea if you don't have to. same thing for the UV, at this point you don't know for certain if its even required. I found a children's microscope kit for $23 on amazon that would suit your issue just fine and if you consider the potential for future coral losses due to dinos it is honestly a steal. also, I understand your urgency to repair the issue but you still have to keep the tanks stability in mind continuously and act methodically. making a bunch of changes and disrupting the biological and chemical stability of the system just sets you back and is the short road to big problems. you could probably solve a lot of low nutrient issues just simply by adding some new livestock that create waste and letting the tank adjust. |
Took a sample of the Dino's to j&l and took some pictures the best I could under the microscope. Still trying to figure out exactly what kind they are.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...77a6403e62.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ede5bb1867.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...55db64e942.jpg
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Pretty neat photos! Glad J&L was able to help you out with the microscope.
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It was interesting watching them under the microscope. They move aroud more than I expected. I think I found a positive id on them from comparing picture on the reef2reef thread. Looks like Prorocentrum. Which I belive means UV won't be effective and I will be in for a long fight... |
I would start with getting nitrates 5-10ppm and phosphates at 0.03-0.08ppm. Just maintain this and let’s hope they burn themselves out.
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good luck! |
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5-10ppm NO3 and .10 PO4 is easier said than done so far. Right now my tank seems to be using a large amount of both and I'm having trouble getting it anywhere near those numbers so far. I think that is expected at the start though. I have just been upping the dose until I see the numbers I want and they stick. |
I have started to see a reduction in dinos on the sand bed. Especially in the mornings. So I'm hoping the dosing is doing something. The rocks are still as brown as can be though.
I've noticed that leaving the Dino's alone and not stirring the sand and blowing off the rocks seems to help more than stirring and blowing. The tank looks good after, but they always come back more afterwards. Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk |
Tested my water last night. 10ppm nitrate and 161ppb/0.494ppm phosphate.
Rocks are still super brown, but I see white patches of sand! Most corals are doing ok. My anemone isn't looking great as it roams around the tank though. |
Very good thread, a lot of help here, this will help many refers to come to!
Not an easy thing but you will win . I’m batting a similar war . I haven’t gone to the black out yet, but I have hit them With peroxide as well as filtering as much of it out of the tank with filter floss daily, using my turkey baster and a very soft artist brush. Get as much out of the system because they release poisons into the water carbon is a must .I added filter pads that removes po4 and one for no3 that I change every week. Also I added to the rain of fire is two bacteria strains one for new rank other for breaking down wast,and 3 turbo snails and 2 emerald crabs. Wet protein skimming all the time . I should have taken pictures but I’m on my way to defeating this beast. Hope this will help a little keep at it ! RAZOR RAMON |
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