Montreal passes pit bull ban
 

http://i.cbc.ca/1.3781110.1475003803...n-20160926.jpg


Just sad....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ylaw-1.3780335
And this was despite the report by the Public Safety minister recommending restrictions not an outright ban.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ebec-1.3743713


Love those breeds. Had Rottweilers growing up and lots of friends with various pit bulls and other "dangerous" breeds.

I've been bit several times by dogs and it's always been from small ones. And cats too... :twised:


Anyway, hope this doesn't open a can of worms on the forum. I know this can be a controversial topic. Just made me sad, thought you should be sad too. Maybe it's not too late to reach out to your local representatives if you're Montreal.

Seems heavy handed but I get where they're coming from. Pitbulls have always gotten a bad rep by the media even when it is the owners who are the source of the issue.

Unfortunately, a few bad apples can ruin it for a collective group. They should be targeting owners and perhaps implementing way more stringent requirements for those who want to own pitbulls but I am sure they've thought of that before passing this law.

While I understand that dogs are often members of the family and are treated as such, they are also somewhat of a product as well and I don't mean that in a bad way. Much like vehicle licensing standards, different vehicles classes require different standards.

Some may contend that pitbulls are no different from any other dogs but the difference is that their capacity and potential for harm. A pitbull bite is not a chihuahua bite is not a cat scratch. The theme is that stereotypically certain breeds are used for certain functions.

IMO "dangerous" and "can be dangerous" are two very different things but often this gets diluted in conversations.

I hope that current pitbull owners can retain their furry lovables and that there is a more harmonious way to solve this than just banning them.

Agreed. Getting a bite from a small dog vs a big dog is a minor annoyance vs hospital or even death, as was the case that spark this inquiry.

I believe having a dog, driving, gun ownership, etc are all things that we should prove we are capable of handling the responsibility. If we can't meet those requirements or violate them after the fact then the privilege should be removed, fines, jail, beatings administered, etc. I always hate the collective being punished because of the individual. It's even worse when it affects your pet/fur baby. Sounds like alot of these dogs could get put down.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...ning-pit-bulls

I've spent about 10 years working in the animal world between Veterinary, stores, and dog training... (Other peoples animals are total ass holes, I had to switch to people) My list of dogs I've been bitten by doesn't include a single bully breed.
German Shepherd, Cairn Terrier, Kelpie, Border Collie, Golden, Chihuahua, Shih tzu, Daxi, Bichon, Pug, Frenchie, Heck almost every small breed, Basenji, Shiba Inu, Formosan Mtn Dog, husky.... I'm sure I've forgotten half....

Montreal is just following other cities and provinces like a sheep. The BSL is nothing new. I'm in Parksville and we have it, Next door in Qualicum they don't. Nanaimo has it as well, however if your "bully" passes the Canine good neighbour test, Nanaimo will treat them like a regular dog and no muzzle needed.
The whole province of Ontario. Burnaby, Coquitlam.... Lots of local cities on the Mainland and all over our country have it. Nanaimo is the only city that I'm aware of that will waive the ban if you have the Canine good neighbour. You shouldn't have to get it, but still...


My girls been an Active volunteer at the Royal Columbian Hospital for 7.5 years. Every time I go back to the mainland I have my mother take her in for a visit since I don't have volunteer status anymore, but she does.
My favourite thing is when somebody is petting her, and she's pretty much taken over their lap, that person usually starts some sort of dog conversation. "..... Oh those bloody pit bulls, I would NEVER trust one! I will never let one near me or my family!...." Like are you seriously too dense to see whats on your lap?


Heres "Vicious" and our Disabled cat as a kitten.
https://youtu.be/YRrgFjlUYvk


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...x/IMG_0389.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8.../Cattat006.jpg

The first thing I have to say is that people need to realize what a pit bull is. There are over a dozen breeds of dogs that fall under breed legislation as "pit bulls". The American Pit Bull Terrier is a registerable "purebred" dog. The APBT registration accepts dogs of several other breeds into their registration as "purebred American Pit Bull Terriers". None of these other breed registries accepts American Pit Bull Terriers. In essence, the American Pit Bull Terrier breed is a bully breed mutt. Back in the day, the APBT was much smaller with males being about 40-50 lbs, and females being 30-35 lbs. Now you'll see registered APBT's weighing in over 100 lbs - mutts.

I own an American Staffordshire Terrier which is one of the breeds that falls under breed legislation. She is my second bully breed dog. I do not think bully breeds belong in the hands of irresponsible owners or owners that just don't know anything about dogs. In all honesty, even as an owner of one of these breeds, I am not against breed legislation. I'm not necessarily for it either, but I think it's better than doing nothing. Usually the problem is the owner not the dog, but there are also a lot of really poorly bred dogs (of all breeds) out there, and sometimes for this reason, it's the dog not the owner, which eventually goes back to the owner that bred it I suppose. I am beyond peeved when I see an article online blaming a "pit bull" when it's obvious to me that there is either no pit bull blood in the dog or very little.

One good thing that breed legislation does do is it protects the dogs in the long run. People abuse the pit bull breeds more than any other breeds of dogs on the face of the planet. I don't know if my heart can handle one more story of some jerk off dragging a pit bull by a rope behind his truck, or some idiots lighting one on fire, or beating it with a baseball bat. All these things just because it is a pit bull. If the breeds are banned, then people will not be able to abuse them anymore. People will probably focus their irrational hate towards some other breed or animal, but at least the pit bulls will be safe. I don't think humanity in general has the responsibility to own pit bull breeds anymore, and I don't say that because it's a particularly big responsibility, I say that because us humans are regressing more and more with every day that goes by. Pretty soon we'll be cavemen again and we'll be line breeding our Chipoms, Puggles, and Goldendoodles to try to create bully breeds again to protect us from lions, and tigers, and bears. Oh my.

Here's our Staffie that we adopted when she was 6.5 years old (now 11.5) snuggling our Chihuahua. Btw, the Chi WILL bite. :lol: I just took this pic.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...aacab35969.jpg

My Chihuahua is reactive.

He hasn't bitten anyone and we work hard on his socialization and he's always improving but if he ever does bite someone, they're not going to die or be permanently disfigured.

If he snaps on another dog at the dog park, there will be no vet bills or death.

I get that there are good dog owners and bad dog owners.

I just never could understand why apologists for breeds that are genetically predisposed to protection or even outright aggression don't understand that the consequences of their dog red lining is far more severe than a dog who was not bred for war, fighting or protection.

These dogs are more dangerous than other breeds and because of that, they attract a demographic of ownership that wants that image which in turn just creates an even worse perception for these dogs.

If any of you who say I've been bitten by this breed or that breed, for the most part, had you actually been bitten by one of the true bully breeds, you would be hurt much, much worse.

Genetics are facts and you can't get rid of them. you can train and control but you can't control triggers or their environment all the time.


Many dogs are herders, some are ratters but some are bred to be able to inflict the maximum amount of damage and to take an incredible amount of pain and just keep going.

I've known some wonderful bullys but I have also known some that scared me.

I can't say that about many other breeds.

I would suggest you do a bit of research on your dog breeds and what they were truly raised and bred for. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you saying that some were not bred, especially over the last 50-100 years or so, for dog fighting?

here's a bump from good ol wikipedia...


Pit bulls were created by breeding bulldogs and terriers together to produce a dog that combined the gameness and agility of the terrier with the strength of the bulldog.[3] In the United Kingdom, these dogs were used in blood sports such as bull-baiting, bear-baiting and **** fighting. These blood sports were officially eliminated in 1835 as Britain began to introduce animal welfare laws. Since dogfights were cheaper to organize and far easier to conceal from the law than bull or bear baits, blood sport proponents turned to pitting their dogs against each other instead. Dog fighting was used as both a blood sport (often involving gambling) and a way to continue to test the quality of their stock. For decades afterwards, dog fighting clandestinely took place in small areas of Britain and America. In the early 20th century pit bulls were used as catch dogs in America for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, and drive livestock, and as family companions.[3] Some have been selectively bred for their fighting prowess.[4][5]

I am genuinely interested to know what you believe they were predominantly bred for?

If wikipedia is your idea of research then I dont even need to respond LOL trusted source right there.

Try your "research" with other dogs too ;) maybe you might learn something? You know about ALL the other dogs bred to hunt, move cattle, protect... or the fact that the amount of dogs used and bred for fighting are so minimal and far removed from the others. Or perhaps all the other breeds used too!

Best not own a husky! Their too closely related to wolves. :lol:

so let me get some of your research then if you're saying that they were never bred for fighting...if that is indeed what you are saying...I'm not sure.

Don't go all trump on me.

Sorry, this is a debate I have had many times in the past and i have done my research.

I'm happy to quote several other sites stating the same, if you like...

from bulldogbreeds.com
His ancestors were brought to the United States in the mid - 1800's by Boston-Irish immigrants. Originally bred from a variety of bulldogs and terriers, American breeders increased his weight and gave him a more powerful head. A forbearer to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, they were originally bred to be a fighting dog.


from AKC.org (that's the American Kennel Club, which is no Wikipedia).
THE ROOTS OF THE AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER CAN BE TRACED THROUGH EARLY MASTIFF WARRIORS, TO THE ORIGINAL BULLDOGS IN ENGLAND, WHICH WERE USED IN THE BLOODY SPORT OF BULL BAITING.




Maybe you can offer some research of your own instead of just blowing off mine?

Why do some owners refuse to believe their dogs breed was at some point bred for fighting?

The same way that some cattle dogs will try to herd people or kids and nip them, the same way they would a sheep or cattle.

It's no different.

Genetic instincts are facts you can't avoid.

Educate me rather than just refuting my facts.

You will find I am very open to reading and discussing them.

:pop2:

If you want to continue this discussion over PM, I am game.

I've said what I honestly feel and have offered some resources on where that opinion comes from.

Some breeds are inherently more dangerous than others.

I'm not interested in rehashing this debate for the amusement of others.

You can probably get the gist by reading the comments in any province article reporting a dog attack, regardless of breed anyways.

You can put the popcorn down.

I think it's pretty hard to refute that bully breeds were bred to fight, though they certainly are not the only breeds bred to fight.

I don't think I'll own another bully after this one, and it's not because I don't want one - it's because I'm so tired of the debate, the fear, the judgement, and the assumption that my dog is something she is not. It gets mundane.

Why I couldn't own one. Having to answer to that stuff all the time must get exhausting... I'll stick with labs, lol.

Its a complete lack of education and common sense with the rest of the general public and dog owners. No matter what you say their just too stupid to see anything else.

Fear mongering morons. :lol:

I think the real problem is that the majority of pit owners have no common sense and a lack of education.let me be clear I'm not saying all owners just saying the majority.I'm sure that some owners are responsible and understand that they own a powerful animal that needs to be under controll around children and fenced. Let's not forget that a women lost her life.That could be your mother daughter or sister. When have you heard of deadly attacks by a golden retriever or a Chihuahua? They are a powerful animals and this needs to be respected by the owners of this dog. To manny of the owners can't provide this. A lot of the people who are attracted to this type of dog want them for the wrong reasons. Would you trust your young child with a pit ??

Absolutely! 100%

Would I trust them with a Chihuahua? Not a chance in hell.

People here need to start researching other breeds. And looking at the damage they can do and have done. Just because its not a breed in the spotlight doesn't mean it's safe.
How strong do you think those livestock dogs are that are bred to fight off cougars, bears, packs of wolves, they can do a heck of a lot more damage then any bully.
Chows, Sharpe, Basenji, Lab, Bernese, a few of the breeds I've seen court ordered put to sleep because of attacks on humans and other dogs.

People are still continually proving they have zero education or common sense on the topic. Pit bulls with good owners make one of the best family and child safe dogs around.

It's all the same crap. Fear mongering morons. EDUCATE YOURSELVES.

The popcorn was not directed at you, so no.

Not a chance... I really like popcorn.

Absolutely. To both points. :)

I really think that laws should be changed so that owner's are 100% responsible for the actions committed by their pets, and charged as if it was the owner that committed the crime. In other words, if the dog bites someone (even if it's a Chihuahua, even if it's the first time), the owner will be charged with assault, or aggravated assault if there are many bites or lots of damage in the assault. This would change things for a lot of people I think, and hold people more accountable. There are a lot of people that don't care if their dog bites someone and must be euthanized - they'll just go get another one.

I am afraid of all dog breeds, esp the smaller ones like chihuahua :redface:

Unless I know the guy who owns it and know that he/she has control and has properly trained the dog, the dog is dangerous to me.

To me, it all comes down to the owner. Yes, some breeds have a natural instinct of being ferocious but it all comes down to how they are trained and brought up. Even human has a natural instinct of being violence, doesn't mean everyone is.

Truth be told, after so many stories about dog attacks, I can hardly trust a random dog and the owner and I am always extra careful whenever I pass a dog (esp the smaller breeds). In my defense, I am a fat guy and I can't run :redface:

In the end, if you can't control a chihuahua, don't get a chihuahua. If you can't control a pitbull, don't get a pitbull. Seems like people needs to be educated more on breeds and responsibility. All breeds are not the same and are there for difference purposes with different personality - that's what makes every breed precious and unique. It all comes down to the owner.

Oh, BTW I am not a dog person; I am just a fish person :mrgreen:

There is always two sides to this. Here is my opinion for what its worth.
If you own this breed of dog, good for you. I do believe any breed of dog can be the loving loyal pet.
That being said, you know the dangers, and as long as you do not, under any circumstance endanger me, my children or any other member of the public, keep your dog and do what you will.
However, if you at any point, you fail at your responsibilities to keep this animal in a safe manner, I hope the law comes at you with the safety off.
It is the responsibility of the owner to do this. Unfortunately, we see the outcome of owners who think they do not have this responsibility.
Coasting, something to keep in mind. There has been reports of unprovoked attacks in many breeds, big, small, and everything in between. So please, don't say one thing without consideration of all the facts. You say its fear mongering morons and education that are at fault here. Id disagree to some point. In some cases its just the dog, plain and simple.

But the point being unprovoked attack can happen in ANY breed. I have seen a few lately even with the media running around claiming pit bull attack and it was a husky or other breed. Therr was one in richmond not long ago where the human who got attacked by the dog actually went onto social media and tried correcting these news sites who were saying it was a pit when it wasnt. We had a client at the vets whos off leash little dog got attacked by a "pit bull" who was on leash, he was going around telling everyone about the vicious pit bull. I saw the dog that did the attacking at a later date, it was a shepherd mix. Nothing remotely bully breed.
Many many dog breeds are capable of imense damage.
With out training any dog can be a danger.
Yes bullys are selected more so to be trained to fight. Key word, trained.
They dont get born as pups with that mindset. They can be high strung and if you dont know how to handle or train any high strung dog youre screwed, any breed. But these guys are highly inteligent and easy to train (with proper training), especially using positive reinforcement. Little dogs not so much. Bullys love to please their owners and do whats asked of them. They are by far one of my favourite breeds to train and work with because their so much smarter and capable of so much more.

Fully agreed with this point. As controversial as this is, I am also hearing some good points made by Coasting. The cards are stacked against bully breeds unfairly as pets because of stereotypes and that's a bad hand dealt.

Some dogs are tougher to handle than others. I like Myka's point that with this ban at least it will make it harder for this breed to be abused by irresponsible owners.

In terms of breeders and breeding bullys, keep in mind the ones used and bred to be trained to fight are not usually what the AKC or CKC would deem an APBT or ASBT or any PROPER bully breed. Their mixed breed/inbred disasters bred to be wider then they are tall.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...62d9e29171.jpg

http://www.american-thug-bully.com/u...03/2433895.jpg

There are quite a few people who are attracted to pitbull type dogs that have no right to own a dog and cant be bothered to train their dog , or keep it in a properly fenced yard . These same people are breeding dogs to sell without any thought to what type of dog they are producing . No thug wants a spaniel , they want a tough badass dog thats mean and they have picked pitbulls to the breeds detrement . These people need to be regulated and they are doing it by controlling the dogs , you cant punish stupid in our society but you can limit the stupids so thats what they did . Too bad for reasonable owners , but you picked a dog that can bite through a parking meter .

This topic really gets me going...In my opinion, Pit Bulls are the "flavour breed" of the 2000's. This has happened in the past with Dobermans, German Shepherds....I am a dog lover and find it sad that such a sweeping ban can be instituted. I disagree with it completely and think that the outcome falls completely on the owner. You know the personality of your dog...or you should. If your dog is prone to bolting as soon as you open the door to your house, you take precautions to make sure that doesn't happen. If you see that your dog can be aggressive when out and about, you should be taking measures to ensure that it does not happen. the OWNER is the alpha and the pack leader and needs to do the correct job to keep the dog in line. This is NOT about Pit Bulls. It is about training, keeping control of your dog, and knowing your dogs personality. The saying "with great power comes great responsibility" comes to mind. Pitt Bulls are powerful animals and that can not be ignored.
I have two dogs, a 70lb Airedale Terrier and a 12lb Welsh Terrier. Of the two, the Welsh is far more aggressive that the Airedale and I am fully aware of this. I constantly keep her in check, and ensure that she is not presented with an opportunity where she can scare, or hurt anyone...even tho she is only 12lbs...she can still do damage. This whole thing falls on the owners being responsible, educated and training not only the dogs, but themselves.
Dogs are getting the short end of the stick and it is sad.

Discussion over PM request was directed at Coasting, not you.

All you've added to the conversation is popcorn...what interest could I possibly have to discuss this topic with you...lol

but you're right, popcorn is delicious...


I get it. You love your dog and he/she is a good dog...nobody is debating that.

BUT...

A chihuahua won't kill your kid.

A bully breed will and you probably can't stop it.

The ignorance I see is most often from pit apologists, people who, for example, refuse to accept their dogs were bred for fighting and can't accept that IF their dog goes into the red zone, the consequences are far worse than with almost any other breed.


There was just a dog attack in Regina.
Family dog, described as "a big sweetheart" been around the kids for most of it's life and then it's prey drive kicked in because the little girls pony pail caused an instinctual reaction.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...tack-1.3796672

It's just so typical and every single bully apologist always says the exact same things...

To me, that's where the ignorance is most harmful.

You think this would have made the news if it was a chihuahua?

I had a pointer, never hunted in his life, never.

but when we'd hike and a rabbit or something would run by, he'd whelp (a sound that he would only make during these chases)and chase the rabbit (or squirrel or whatever) and point at the hole or tree he'd chased them into.

He could NOT be recalled when he would get this excited and for him and me, that was a big deal as he always, always listened from the time he was 6 months old and wanted to be next to me more than anywhere else.

This is all instinct and it kicks no matter what under the right circumstances.

it's stronger in some dogs than others but how do you know which?

I feel that if bully owners/apologists could just accept some of the realities for their dogs breed, you wouldn't need a ban and good dogs wouldn't have to pay the price.

You're still denying the fact that there are dozens of larger stronger dogs out there then any "bully breed" proving a complete lack of education on your part.

[...rest of post deleted...]

I am all for dangerous dog legislation. Perhaps dangerous owner legislation as well.

AquaAddict

This thread just couldn't be left for dead could it. Lol

Sorry, not sure what I was expecting when I originally posted this. I knew it would get personal, but I thought maybe it could be a constructive conversation and raise some awareness...

It's been going downhill and it's not contributing anything positive to this community, perhaps it should be locked or closed.

Does anyone know what the current legislation is in Montreal? I heard this ban didn't go through.

Hey guys I don't have the time to go through all this and edit posts at this minute but I will later... So please stop it with the insults or this thread will be closed.

Oh, you're funny! :lol: "Make work project" I think!

Saw this the other day and made me think of this thread...

I wonder what would have happened if this mother had left her 3 week old baby alone with 3 Chihuahuas?

She must have trusted these dogs.

http://wgntv.com/2017/05/30/dog-bite...-bulls-police/

Here was another one that happened earlier in May

http://blog.dogsbite.org/2017/05/dog...las-vegas.html

Quoted from the article above

"The family was shocked at the dog's violence -- the dog was considered a good family pet."

"Kamiko is the 513th American killed by a pit bull since we began collecting this data on the Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Archival Record website. Her death also marks the 210th child mauled to death by a pit bull since 1980"

I wonder how many Chihuahua deaths?

Looked online but I guess no one is keeping statistics on that.

ACTUALLY...
There have been SOME reported Chihuahua attack deaths...

Here is a guy who was "mauled" by Chihuahuas (and some other dogs)...he survived the attack but later committed suicide after some intense shaming from the general public and his friends and family.

http://www.pocho.com/man-mauled-by-c...t-humiliation/

Also, I found some video on news reports of roaming packs of feral Chihuahuas in Arizona back in 2014...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4848543.html

Scary stuff...it doesn't look like any injuries or deaths from them though. Lucky.

When you do search Chihuahua attack, you do come up with a ton of reports of Chihuahua being killed by other dogs...not so much with when you search Pit Bull attack.

I think things would be much different for pit bulls if they were considered classy dogs rather than a lowly breed often owned by uneducated, poor people. If people "in the hood" didn't own pit bulls, rather people in the upper class did then I think there would be a lot more better behaved pit bulls and much fewer pit bull bites. It makes me wonder what would be the next "hood breed"???

Hopefully Chihuahuas.

Or any breed that isn't a huge danger to society when not properly socialized, trained or understood.

A lot of these attacks are by dogs that are family pets and not owned by whatever stereotype you have in mind with the owner expressing outright surprise after someone dies or is seriously harmed.

I think demographics definitely play a role in the stigma but you can't discount incidents where the attack is wholly unexpected and out of character as far as the dogs caregivers are concerned.

This can happen with any breed to be sure.

The difference is that as a dog originally bred to kill, for fighting, when instincts take over, it can be fatal.

You just can't say that about all breeds.

Whether you like his methods or not Cesar Milan makes it a habit to promote pit bulls as a gentle and loving dog I've met him personally and had a one on one with him although brief he understands the fears people have of dogs especially the ones deemed as violent (ie. pit bulls, German Shepard, Doberman, st. Bernard's and collies to name a few) but in his opinion no dog is born dangerous but are made dangerous by people and I agree with that whole heartedly

I have been attacked and bitten many times by dogs but I never blamed them I grew up in the country where dogs were everywhere I have the scars to show for it but we knew that dogs were for the most part working dogs first and family pets second and working dogs had to focus disturb that focus and you paid for it up that was time era I grew up in today the world is full of bleeding hearts and people who watch too many reality shows that don't show reality. Please don't blame the dog blame the human

If you are ceasar milan, you can keep any dog, no matter how dangerous they can be.

His statements that a pit bull are no more likely to attack than any other dog is not backed up by statistics.

Regardless, the point isn't that they are more likely to attack, the point is that when they do, the consequences are far more severe than with most other breeds.

See reports of Chihuahua attacks above, for example.

And since you can't trust humans to be the kind of owner certain dogs require, banning makes sense because of people being shitty owners and advocates spreading this message that they are all great family dogs that were bred to be nanny's...which is factually untrue. They were bred to fight and kill and withstand significant pain once in the red zone.

Here is a quote from Ceasars Website

"But it’s also important for me to help educate people who own pit bulls about their dogs. Pit bulls combine the speed and determination of the terrier side of their ancestry with the strength of the bulldog side.

It is the Terrier determination that causes problems if they fight, because they’ll be oblivious to pain and just refuse to quit. As responsible owners, we should make sure to redirect those traits in healthy ways."

So people who probably shouldn't own any dogs get a pitty or bully of some sort and then someone or some poor pet dies a horrible, horrible death.

Not everyone is Ceasar Milan.

if they were, we wouldn't need to ban anything.