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Potatohead 07-12-2016 04:49 PM
Herbie drain is a pain
 
Does anyone else have to constantly fiddle with their drain? Mine will be set and level for 2 - 3 days and then over the course of like 12 hours it will start rising in the overflow. I thought it was my filter socks clogging but when it started rising I pulled the socks right out and it didn't go back down (mind you, I didn't leave it for hours like maybe I should have). Starting to wish I went with a beananimal style :neutral:. I backed off the valve like 1/100 of a turn and started the level in the overflow basically as low as I can, so we'll see if that helps, but I'm not super hopeful. Anyone figure out a solution?

Thanks

Ryanerickson 07-12-2016 06:27 PM
I had this issue turned out there was shells in my return pump causing inconstant flow. Are you using a gate valve to controller it ?

Potatohead 07-12-2016 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanerickson (Post 994952)
I had this issue turned out there was shells in my return pump causing inconstant flow. Are you using a gate valve to controller it ?
I have a gate valve on the drain but nothing on the return. I thought that it could be varying return flow, it's possible, but it seems to me in that case the overflow level would go both up and down, not just up... But I could be wrong. I may add a ball valve on the outlet of the pump just to eliminate that possibility.

input80 07-12-2016 07:31 PM
Pump?
 
Check your pump, might be varying flow? I had the same issue with the level changing every couple of hours. Changed out the (seemingly failing) pump & haven't had a problem since.

Potatohead 07-12-2016 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by input80 (Post 994954)
Check your pump, might be varying flow? I had the same issue with the level changing every couple of hours. Changed out the (seemingly failing) pump & haven't had a problem since.
Been thinking about this the last hour or so and I think what may be happening, is if the pump is getting periods of slightly higher voltage, (which likely happens depending on other loads on the circuit) it will increase flow very slightly. This of course is a problem because the drain isn't set up for the extra flow so water accumulates in the overflow. It has even gotten to the point where the DT level is rising. It then also gets exacerbated because the ATO keeps topping off before it actually should be.

So, if I get a ball valve on the return side and set it at or slightly lower than the current return rate, it should be more stable... In theory :drinking: . At the very least it eliminates another variable.

albert_dao 07-12-2016 08:15 PM
Are you able to raise the water so that you get a tiny trickle into the emergency drain? Cut it down a bit if need be.

mihaivapler 07-12-2016 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatohead (Post 994956)
Been thinking about this the last hour or so and I think what may be happening, is if the pump is getting periods of slightly higher voltage, (which likely happens depending on other loads on the circuit) it will increase flow very slightly. This of course is a problem because the drain isn't set up for the extra flow so water accumulates in the overflow. It has even gotten to the point where the DT level is rising. It then also gets exacerbated because the ATO keeps topping off before it actually should be.
If you have a DC pump then that's the problem.Some of them don't keep a constant voltage which result's in more or less flow(happens to me with jebao12000)What i did is i tuned the gate valve that is just flowing a tiny bit in the emergency drain and when start to push more water it goes down on the emergency,usually doesn't last for long and go back in level.

Potatohead 07-12-2016 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert_dao (Post 994959)
Are you able to raise the water so that you get a tiny trickle into the emergency drain? Cut it down a bit if need be.
This is an option I'm trying to avoid, but in the end I may not have another choice. The emergency drain is actually drilled into the side of the tank higher up than the drain hole (for space reasons) and I can't really lower it. If I run it with a trickle in the emergency, it will work but it raises the level in the DT higher than I want it to be. I set it all up so that it would just start draining before the tank overflowed, but all in all we're only talking about 1.5" difference in height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mihaivapler (Post 994960)
If you have a DC pump then that's the problem.Some of them don't keep a constant voltage which result's in more or less flow(happens to me with jebao12000)What i did is i tuned the gate valve that is just flowing a tiny bit in the emergency drain and when start to push more water it goes down on the emergency,usually doesn't last for long and go back in level.
It's an AC pump (Tunze 1073.02) so I don't know if the flow would really vary or not, I know turning them down with a restriction will reduce their power consumption but I don't know if more power means more flow. We're talking about not much water over a long period of time though, my whole system is only like 38 gallons so it only takes about 1/2 gallon to really make a big difference. 1/2 gallon over 3 - 4 days isn't much change in flow. Maybe the issue is lack of water volume and I just have to live with it, but I hope not.

mihaivapler 07-12-2016 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatohead (Post 994963)
This is an option I'm trying to avoid, but in the end I may not have another choice. The emergency drain is actually drilled into the side of the tank higher up than the drain hole (for space reasons) and I can't really lower it. If I run it with a trickle in the emergency, it will work but it raises the level in the DT higher than I want it to be. I set it all up so that it would just start draining before the tank overflowed, but all in all we're only talking about 1.5" difference in height.



It's an AC pump (Tunze 1073.02) so I don't know if the flow would really vary or not, I know turning them down with a restriction will reduce their power consumption but I don't know if more power means more flow. We're talking about not much water over a long period of time though, my whole system is only like 38 gallons so it only takes about 1/2 gallon to really make a big difference. 1/2 gallon over 3 - 4 days isn't much change in flow. Maybe the issue is lack of water volume and I just have to live with it, but I hope not.
I would adjust the valve so just a little bit of water going down your emergency drain,just enough that will not create a splash or any noise.also what else you can do it you have the space i would shorten the emergency drain and put a 45 elbow so in this way the water doesn't drop in the pipe creating that noise..

Potatohead 07-12-2016 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mihaivapler (Post 994964)
I would adjust the valve so just a little bit of water going down your emergency drain,just enough that will not create a splash or any noise.also what else you can do it you have the space i would shorten the emergency drain and put a 45 elbow so in this way the water doesn't drop in the pipe creating that noise..
The emergency is already on a 90° angle, the drain is going straight out the bottom with a standpipe and the emergency drain is drilled into the side about 1.5" above the top of the standpipe. It's just a bulkhead in the side of the overflow. I have the drain standpipe not far from the bottom of the weir teeth to keep the overflow quiet. It's easy enough to set it up so I have a small trickle down the emergency drain. I would have to extend the plumbing because I left it short of the sump water level on purpose so I could hear it if water was ever going through it. If I extend the emergency drain below the water level of the sump, is the water going to back up the drain or will it actually work its way into the sump? I guess it would be fine as long as it's not straight up and down.

Potatohead 07-12-2016 09:31 PM
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-...method-basics/

That article says to run both the siphon and emergency lines under water into the sump, which allows it to go full siphon if it has to. Makes sense I guess. I just hope I can do it without bringing the DT level too high, I'll monkey around with it tonight.

Potatohead 07-13-2016 04:21 AM
Put a ball valve on the return, turned the flow down about 10%. Raised the level in the overflow to about 1/8" below the emergency drain. I only have about 1/4" of the weir showing above the surface but it still skims the top so it's good to go. I guess now we wait and see :neutral: .

Tyfighter 07-13-2016 05:45 AM
I had the same problem with mine always having to be adjusted, I just thought that was how it was going to be. Then one day I went to close my drain line and the ball valve was jammed. I removed the valve (Double union valves for the win!) and a there was a shell jammed in it. I replaced the valve and I haven't had a problem since.


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