Fishy!'s Long and Low 60ish Gallon
 

Well, on Boxing Day I ordered my Christmas present from my wife, a new custom tank upgrade from a builder about 8 hours away. When in the process of ordering I decided that it would be beneficial to have them build me a frag tank as well, I will add this to the build, even though i have not decided if it will be plumbed into the new system or stand alone(input welcome). We will be making the drive in mid February, which is great. Gives me lots of time to plan and buy what pieces of equipment i will need to get this new beauty running. I picked up a few items on boxing day sales for both of the new tanks, I will be buying little by little as time goes on.

I will be moving over the contents and some equipment from my current 20 gal long mixed reef.


Equipment:

Tank: Custom built 40"x22"x18" with a 40"x18"x18" Display area
3 sided starfire.
Coast to coast internal overflow.
Drilled for 1" herbie overflow and 2 x 3/4" return
Back Black
Lighting: Will be moving over the 2 Ai Prime fixtures on my current 20l
Due to the depth of this tank, and these lights being rated for a 18x18 footprint i will try with just two lights to start. They are currently only running at 23% on the 20 long. If i feel i need more lighting i will either add another or transfer one to the frag tank and sell one to purchase a t5 or hybrid system.

Filtration:
Sump: This is still up in the air. I have yet to decided if i should build my own sump out of a standard AGA style tank or buy a prebuilt sump. I would appreciate everyone's opinions/experience on this matter.


Return Pump: I have purchased a Jebao DCT 4000 for the return pump.


Skimmer: I am thinking of either a Coralbox DC500 or a Bubble Magnus Curve 5 (Opinions?)


Powerheads: I plan to use 2 x Jebao RW-4 pumps until the new Jebao Gyre rip off comes out, at which point i would like to try that.

Heater: I plan to purchase a neo-therm 200w heater. (Is this big enough??)


Here is the 3D Sketch provided by the builder:
http://i.imgur.com/wJdoOgv.jpg


Livestock:


To be transfered from my current 20 long:
1 x Back and White perc
1 x Orange and White perc
2 x Green/Blue Chromis
1 X RBTA hosted and fought over by Black Clown
Multiple inverts including an orange star, pom pom crab, cleaner shrimp, hermits, snails, feather duster.


Mixed corals including:
Multiple Zoas and Play's
Montipora
Pocillopora
Flowerpot
Duncan
Favias
Maze Coral
Multple mushrooms
Multiple Acan corals
Sympodium
Too much to list


Current FTS of 20 Long:
http://i.imgur.com/SQ8xBt0.jpg


To be added when safe/applicable:
I will of coarse keep adding various corals and inverts as time goes on
1 x White banded possum wrasse
1 x Undecided tang(Kole) or dwarf angel
Possible addition of anthias to replace chromis
My wife has made a caveat that she wants a blue spotted jawfish


Frag tank:


This tank will also be custom built by the same builder as the display. It will be 18"x18"x12"
The details of this tank will be determined by whether or not it is plumbed into the main display. I will be transferring over the frags and light in my current 10gal temporary frag tank: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/36895...10g-frag-tank/


Drilled:
2 x 1" Bulkhead for strainer overflow
2 x 1/2" Bulkhead retun
3 sides and bottom black


I will likely use the Fluval Sea CP1 pumps for flow. Possibly another RW-4 as money permits.


Here is the 3D Rendering from the builder:
http://i.imgur.com/6rzI9mY.jpg




Any and all input or opinions are appreciated for both tanks to help me along in this build process.

Sounds like a sweet tank! I'd suggest a single return line for a tank that size. My tank is similar dimensions and I have one return.

I'd plumb the frag tank to the main system for stable parameters plus the frag tank will match the display so no shock when you move stuff.

Thanks Myka! I am quite excited for this new addition.

A single return for the display or frag tank? What is the advantage of having only one return? I will be using a dc return pump so i can easily adjust flow via the controller.

I am of the same mindset. I have always been of the thinking that more water volume = better. Im sure few people would refute that. The only concern i have is in the event of a tank crash, you are going to lose everything, including any possible "insurance" frags you may have. This is my biggest concern with plumbing it in. Also will be dependent on if there is room inside the stand for the frag tank. There is no room outside the stand for this to be plumbed in.

On the contrary, what is the advantage of having two returns in a small tank? I see no advantage to having two return lines on a tank less than 6 feet long, and having only one return line means simpler plumbing and more room under the stand. My system is 92 gallons gross, and my return pump is 400 gph after head loss (not including loss from pipe and fittings). I'm not sure why a person would want to split 400 gph. I could probably pee harder than that. Hehe.

How much volume do you plan to push through the sump? Your tank is 61 gallons gross, and the sump probably won't hold 20 gallons. So you're like 80 gallons max. I wouldn't push more than 400 gph through your sump, that's 5x turnover.

Yeah, that's a good point. I always make sure my favorite frags are also in friends' tanks. :)

Good point. I had not thought of it like this. I was hoping to have a net 600 gph going through the sump. I guess it's just a matter of aesthetics for me. Where would I place a single return on a solid back wall? Maybe in the middle, with the two powerhead in each corner. Something to think about.

Tank with overflow is 69 gallons. I was hoping to have 20-30 gals of water in the sump ideally netting out at 100 gallons. I will have to be careful to leave enough to back siphon room in the sump for approx 5 gals. (40" tank width X 4" overflow depth X 6" height of full siphon below water level). That doesn't account for any back siphon of return lines or the volume of water held in the actual plumbing. I'm afraid I will need a pretty tall sump. This might exclude me from any pre-manufactured sumps out there. Thoughts?

Thanks for your feedback. Keep it coming.

For mine, the drains are where your returns are, and the return is in the middle. You could just keep the layout how it is, and pick one side or the other for the return.


I don't know what the heck I did to typo the tank volume, since I just redid it and can't come up with 61 gallons again. :o

The main drain in the back chamber (the one with the gate valve on it) has a standpipe on it which is 2" lower than the emergency drain. When the system is turned off it only drains a little over 1 gallon down to the sump.

However, I did design my sump to hold the entire back chamber volume which is 11 gallons (at operating level). My sump is 24 x 20 x 16", but there is an RO chamber along one side so the actual sump area is 20 x 19.5 x 16" which is 26 gallons if it's full to 15.5" (minus glass widths of baffles and such). With the tank running, the water in the sump is 8.5" deep which is 14.5 gallons. Add that 14.5 gallons to the 11 gallons in the back chamber (should it ever fully drain to the sump) and you have 25.5 gallons which fills the sump to 15". This sounds ok, but then there's the backflow from the tank/piping and the volume from the skimmer when it's off...

After all this planned redundancy though, I did my calculations with the back chamber being 3" wide (which is what I ordered), and I was surprised when the tank arrived with a 3.75" wide back chamber and my sump was already built. So, my sump won't hold the backflow from the tank/piping, the backflow from the reactors/skimmer/etc because the back chamber holds 2 gallons more than planned. If the back chamber was 3" as planned, then it would have all worked out.

You just have to plug numbers into an aquarium volume calculator and figure out how big your sump needs to be. Don't forget to take glass thickness into consideration. You need the inside measurements. Also, I don't know the water depth for the skimmer you picked. I made sure the skimmers I bought didn't need deep water. Some need 11" deep water, and I just didn't want that extra volume down there.

I'm waiting for paint to dry, so I did some rough calculations for you...

Assuming the actual dimensions of your back chamber is 39.5" long and 3.75" wide, and assuming the operating depth is 15", then you'll need just under 10 gallons of space in your sump, plus the volume your tank will drain (if it drains an inch that's a little over 3 gallons) and pipes/skimmer (shouldn't be more than 2-3 gallons), etc. So you need a total of about 16 gallons of empty space in the sump for full redundancy. If your sump is say 22" wide and you need say 9" depth in the sump, then if your sump is 24" long it will have 21 gallons in operating volume, add to that your 16 gallons, and if it's 16" deep (15" to be safe) you're probably going to overflow. If you made the sump 30 x 18 x 16" your operating volume would be 21 gallons, and total volume would be 35 gallons (to 15" depth). 21 + 16 = 37 gallons. That won't work either (for full redundancy). Play around with the numbers and you'll figure something out. Don't forget to consider the frag tank too. That'll throw a wrench in it. :D

36 x 18 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 41 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 24 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 24 is 40 gallons. Too close for comfort, and certainly won't work with your frag tank.

36 x 22 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 50 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you 4 gallons of "insurance" space.

36 x 22 x 17" total volume (to 16" height) is 53 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you another 3 more gallons of space, 7 gallons total. That's probably enough for your frag tank too depending how you plumb it.

Thanks Myka
This will definitely take a pad of paper and some time to figure out. The frag tank also throws another level of complexity to the equations. Any idea where a guy can find a chart with standard tank dimensions?

I added some more calculations above...the paint is still not dry... :lol:

http://www.aquariumdimensions.com/

If you want a standard tank for a sump you'll have to go with a 36" tank, and your options are 36 x 12 x 12" (20 long), 36 x 12 x 16" (called 29 or 30 gallon), 36 x 18 x 16" (40 gallon breeder), 36 x 18 x 18" (50 gallon, not usually easy to find), 36 x 18 x 21" (65 gallon).

36 x 18 x 18" (50 gallon) filled to 17" total volume is 46 gallons. Operating volume would be 24 gallons, plus 16 gallons is 40 gallons. 6 gallons spare. That would probably do the trick. I wouldn't want a sump deeper than 18" since it's too hard to reach into it. I think that's the only one that has the volume for you.

The problem I see here is that the total stand dims is going to be 22" deep. I then have to accommodate for the material to make the stands structure which is likely 4.5". That only leaves me with approx 16" of space. This is going to have to be one tall sump!

Design your stand so it can accommodate an 18" wide sump at the least (or you're forced into a custom sump). You should have no problem doing this.

What kind of floors do you have in near the tank? What's being risked? :D

Nothing special. Laminate that should prob be replaced. It's in the basement. If it overflows every time the power goes out, that kinda a big deal tho.

Ok, after some digging this is what I have come up with.
If I were to get my hands on a 37 gallon tank: 30x12x22
If it were filled to 30x12x21 = 32.7 gallons
If I have a running height of 10" (prob high) 30x12x10=15.6 gals
Therefore 33.7-15.6=17.1gals with 1" of sump space to spare.
We (you actuall, thanks) determined my total back flow volume is 16gallons being generous.
Based off of these numbers a 37gal AGA should work? Am I missing something?
The stand will be 36-40" tall so there should be plenty of room to accommodate the height.
Thanks for tanking the time to work through this with me.

You will hate life if your sump is 22" deep and inside a stand. Depending which skimmer you use, that means the top of the skimmer would be almost level with the top of the sump.

I would really try to modify your stand design to accommodate a sump 18" wide. Are you using 2x4s? I can mock up a design for you, or find a pic online. The trouble with bottom drilled tanks is that there isn't room at the back of the tank to run a 2x4 because the bulkheads will be in the way. That's why I went with a steel stand for my tank. The steel is 1" rather than 1.5" with a 2x4 which is the difference between it fitting and not fitting. Do you want your stand to be flush with the tank and thus be 40 x 22" or do you want the stand to be a bit bigger than the actual tank? If the stand can be 41 x 23" then you'll have room behind the bulkheads to run a 2x4 on edge. How tall do you want your stand?

Many people place the sump on the floor, and the stand framing is around it, so the sump has to fit between the framing. If you put a bottom in the stand then you can put the sump on top of that and there will be more width (but less height for a skimmer).

Like this:
http://blog.aquanerd.com/wp-content/...nk-Stand-4.jpg


Instead of this:
http://www.centercup.net/images/125b...tand1_1-08.jpg

This was my intention. I am a carpenter by trade, it shouldn't be much of a challenge to build.

This has been my fear all along, and I have been meaning to message Matt to get the distance from edge of bulkhead to the back of the tank. I actually had one of my welders do up a quote for a steel stand, worked out to being approx $325!!!!!! in material alone. That doesn't even account for his time and rods. The steel stand dream is quickly fading, unless i can find an alternate source for cheaper/free material.

This will be ideal.

This is a worst scenario as the area the tank will be going is going to be tight as it is with a 22" depth. I would almost rather have a back bracket made from steel in lou of the back 2x4 on edge.


Somewhere between 32-40" I am flexible on this. I think i will likely settle on 36" height.

I'll agree with Mindy on this one. I had a 20" sump once and it was torture. A 22" sump is what nightmares are made of.

If it's a concept built tank get matt to quote you on a steel stand...I don't think my stand costed 325 and it was powder coated.

Great. Thanks for the info. I thought that sounded high. I never even thought of asking matt or Dave if they had someone that made stands. I just sent off an email. At this rate I will be driving my truck up to Calgary instead of the SUV haha.

Lol mise well price out a custom sump as well...make the trip worth while.

It's coming to that. I have to do this in small increments as to avoid suspicion. She would take the tank in the divorce just to spite me, if she saw the total on it. Haha

Forgot to mention if you buy a stand from them the warrenty period is longer as well on the tank lol.....lol ya my total cost is something I don't like thinking about

Just read through your thread. I will defineately be tagging along. Nice to see another awesome concept tank.

Lol they make some really nice tanks. Looking forward to seeing your build.

If you have the tools build it out of 2 sheets of 3/4" plywood laminated together then. You can do cut outs in the back to make room for the bulkheads. See attached image - can't remember where I found it. It's a DIY ADA stand (I don't think the 2x2s are necessary. I wish I saw that before I built my stand.

Wow, hubby built my stand for $80 in steel, and a couple cans of automotive paint. We used 1" square tube, 1/8" wall thickness. Then I used magnets to mount panels on the stand. I can remove all the panels for full access to the sump area.

Ok good, lots of room for the skimmer then, even if you have a raised floor in the stand for the sump.

This is where I figured I would be at. $80ish materials and double it for the labour. Steel prices are low right now too I think. I think my guy is out to lunch, which is odd, since he is usually pretty reasonable. I'll see what Matt comes back to me with.

Well, got a couple of changes coming down the pipe right now. Priced the stand out through Matt. It's a total no brainer to do it through him, price wise. It throws a bit of a wrench into our plans of taking the SUV to Calgary, but if gas prices keep coming down like they are it's really not that big of an issue. Anyone that owns a gmc 2500 with the 6.0l engine knows this struggle is real!
I also, after talking a look at a few tank threads with concept tanks, have decided to go with black silicone on the display. I have it set to have all the visible edges polished so I hope that this doesn't take away from that.(Opinions?)

Ask them to tool the silicone rather than finger it. You'll get a factory-looking edge. Imo, their typical fingered silicone is pretty disappointing. That's great you're going for the steel stand through Matt. :)

I hear you on gas prices - we have a Dodge Sport with Hemi. It's actually not bad on the highway, but it is TERRIBLE in the city.

I sent the request in for tooling the silicone. Felt kinda awkward asking him not to finger my silicone lol

Ya I get a whopping 11mpg on the highway with that beast. If I'm pulling a skid steer I get 8. Might as well bought a peterbuilt.

Felt like i had to show this off, since i have a tank journal now, i might as well do it here.
Top picture is from the day i moved my 15gal into my 20 Long. This monti cap broke in half during transport and this is what was left.
The bottom pic is 10 month later.

http://i.imgur.com/uqtpsNz.jpg?1

Looking forward to following your tank build.

I have Matt and Dave making my new 180 gal tank as well. Awesome guys to deal with. Fully understand the drive to pick up the tank, I live about 8 hours away as well. From people I have talked to it will be worth the drive for the quality they put into their builds.

I just about got them to make my stand as well but decided to build it myself out of aluminum. Material costs only ended up being around $200. Had to add small gussets in the corners to install magnets for the outer skin.

Here is a pic of the stand frame not yet polished or painted.Only weighs about 40 lbs.

Attachment 14876

Mike

Yes they have been great to deal with so far. No matter what my mind dreams up or changes I make the answer is always "no problem"
We were headed up to Edmonton that weekend for a hockey game before this tank started to unfold. My wife's an Oilers fan and I'm a leafs fan so we are going to catch that game. I guess u can say it all kinda lined up. My wife's aunt lives and Calgary so we will shoot across the day after the game and even have a place to stay. I'll be checking out the local stores while I'm there.
That looks awesome! I can have my way with almost any type of wood, metal not so much. One day I will buy a welder and hone my skills when I have a little more free time. I considered building the stand out of 80/20 extruded and priced it out, but with the price that Matt gave me on the stand all finished and powder coated I couldn't pass it up. I told him I would go ahead with it as long as it can be done for when we are there to pick up the tank. So that is the only contingent.
Glad to have u tagging along. Leave a link for your build so I can follow, if you have a journal going.

Glad you got the stand figured out. Lol I was going to build my own stand as well until I found out the price from concept and the warranty that comes with it. After I found that out it was a no brainer lol

Does anyone have any experience with the he coral box skimmers? I have been reading good reviews on them, and am considering either a Dc300 or Dc500. They are almost the exact price of the BM Curve 500 but you get a controllable do pump. I will be running a Jebao return pump and powerheads so the continuity would be nice. Any experience/opinions?

Well our trip to Alberta is coming to a close. Here is a quick sneak peek at the goodies coming home. Unfortunately short a stand, but it will be shipped soon. Details to follow.
http://i.imgur.com/Boyjbdb.jpg

Well here's where I'm at with this build:
We took a trip out to Edmonton on Thursday to watch the leafs play the oilers. On Friday we spent the morning and afternoon at the west Edmonton mall before driving to Calgary.
Saturday was quite the adventure, we spent all day touring the fish stores in Calgary, 7 of them to be exact. Got to take a look at my new display and frag tank before they were wrapped up for the trip home. We ran into a little bit of a snag. It turns out that the stand I had ordered, after searching the entire store and compound, never got forwarded off to the stand builder, who happened to be standing there while we were looking for the stand. Needless to say my truck was going to get loaded up to head back to Regina short a stand. This was handled swiftly by Dave, he committed to getting the builder to rush it into production and is covering the courier cost to have it sent to me in Regina. Thanks Dave.
While loading my truck on Sunday I got to talking to Jason about my plans of buying a 50gal and making it into a sump. I explained how much trouble I was having finding a bare 50gal. He threw out the idea of having them build me one and getting it sent with the stand. So back into the shop we went to price it out. After getting back home and a few patient email responses from Jason this is what is being made for me.

http://i.imgur.com/fGaWvy4.jpg

We're hoping to get the sump and stand on the truck to Regina for Monday. Things are starting to come together.

Here are a couple of pictures of the frag tank unwrapped, and with the two IM 102 frag racks I picked up from Roskoreef. They fit in there great!

http://i.imgur.com/CQgG5VJ.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/i64l1If.jpg?1
This is my least favourite configuration:
http://i.imgur.com/jPSMd2l.jpg?1
My preferred configuration:
http://i.imgur.com/Ud903xG.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/0y710W5.jpg?1

And finally a couple of sneak peeks of the display tank:
http://i.imgur.com/MhvxZ25.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/Le2juF3.jpg?1

Wow those racks fit nicely! Nice setup!

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

Thanks Alex! They fit perfectly. Can't wait to get all these parts together and get these tanks wet.

Well I picked up a Rodi unit today from a local reefer who shut his tank down. I am very happy not to have to lug water from the grocery store anymore!

http://i.imgur.com/R1GKNeS.jpg?1

It came with a tds meter. I have had a few tufts of hair alge popping up in my display and what looked like detritus on my sand bed I have been trying to vacuum out every water change. I cut back feedings and upped water changes to no avail, and started to suspect the source water a month or so ago. Tonight armed with the new tds meter I took a reading on the bottled water I have been using. This is what I found:

http://i.imgur.com/DvpYFPJ.jpg?1

I am fairly certain that this might be the cause of my struggles with the blooms of algae. I feel like when you are running your water through an Rodi unit and coming out with 0ppm that 76 is quite high. Am I wrong?
I unfortunately have to work tomorrow (these 60 hour weeks really eat into Reefing time lol) so I likely won't get the unit online until Sunday. If I am coming out with 0ppm out of the unit I think I might just dump the 10gals of mixed water I have on hand for my next water change and make new. Would you, if you knew it was mixed with 76ppm water??

I don't know what I was thinking when I typed this but I meant diatoms.