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Fishy!'s Long and Low 60ish Gallon
Well, on Boxing Day I ordered my Christmas present from my wife, a new custom tank upgrade from a builder about 8 hours away. When in the process of ordering I decided that it would be beneficial to have them build me a frag tank as well, I will add this to the build, even though i have not decided if it will be plumbed into the new system or stand alone(input welcome). We will be making the drive in mid February, which is great. Gives me lots of time to plan and buy what pieces of equipment i will need to get this new beauty running. I picked up a few items on boxing day sales for both of the new tanks, I will be buying little by little as time goes on.
I will be moving over the contents and some equipment from my current 20 gal long mixed reef. Equipment: Tank: Custom built 40"x22"x18" with a 40"x18"x18" Display area 3 sided starfire. Coast to coast internal overflow. Drilled for 1" herbie overflow and 2 x 3/4" return Back Black Lighting: Will be moving over the 2 Ai Prime fixtures on my current 20l Due to the depth of this tank, and these lights being rated for a 18x18 footprint i will try with just two lights to start. They are currently only running at 23% on the 20 long. If i feel i need more lighting i will either add another or transfer one to the frag tank and sell one to purchase a t5 or hybrid system. Filtration: Sump: This is still up in the air. I have yet to decided if i should build my own sump out of a standard AGA style tank or buy a prebuilt sump. I would appreciate everyone's opinions/experience on this matter. Return Pump: I have purchased a Jebao DCT 4000 for the return pump. Skimmer: I am thinking of either a Coralbox DC500 or a Bubble Magnus Curve 5 (Opinions?) Powerheads: I plan to use 2 x Jebao RW-4 pumps until the new Jebao Gyre rip off comes out, at which point i would like to try that. Heater: I plan to purchase a neo-therm 200w heater. (Is this big enough??) Here is the 3D Sketch provided by the builder: http://i.imgur.com/wJdoOgv.jpg Livestock: To be transfered from my current 20 long: 1 x Back and White perc 1 x Orange and White perc 2 x Green/Blue Chromis 1 X RBTA hosted and fought over by Black Clown Multiple inverts including an orange star, pom pom crab, cleaner shrimp, hermits, snails, feather duster. Mixed corals including: Multiple Zoas and Play's Montipora Pocillopora Flowerpot Duncan Favias Maze Coral Multple mushrooms Multiple Acan corals Sympodium Too much to list Current FTS of 20 Long: http://i.imgur.com/SQ8xBt0.jpg To be added when safe/applicable: I will of coarse keep adding various corals and inverts as time goes on 1 x White banded possum wrasse 1 x Undecided tang(Kole) or dwarf angel Possible addition of anthias to replace chromis My wife has made a caveat that she wants a blue spotted jawfish Frag tank: This tank will also be custom built by the same builder as the display. It will be 18"x18"x12" The details of this tank will be determined by whether or not it is plumbed into the main display. I will be transferring over the frags and light in my current 10gal temporary frag tank: http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/36895...10g-frag-tank/ Drilled: 2 x 1" Bulkhead for strainer overflow 2 x 1/2" Bulkhead retun 3 sides and bottom black I will likely use the Fluval Sea CP1 pumps for flow. Possibly another RW-4 as money permits. Here is the 3D Rendering from the builder: http://i.imgur.com/6rzI9mY.jpg Any and all input or opinions are appreciated for both tanks to help me along in this build process. |
Sounds like a sweet tank! I'd suggest a single return line for a tank that size. My tank is similar dimensions and I have one return.
I'd plumb the frag tank to the main system for stable parameters plus the frag tank will match the display so no shock when you move stuff. |
Thanks Myka! I am quite excited for this new addition.
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How much volume do you plan to push through the sump? Your tank is 61 gallons gross, and the sump probably won't hold 20 gallons. So you're like 80 gallons max. I wouldn't push more than 400 gph through your sump, that's 5x turnover. Quote:
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Thanks for your feedback. Keep it coming. |
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The main drain in the back chamber (the one with the gate valve on it) has a standpipe on it which is 2" lower than the emergency drain. When the system is turned off it only drains a little over 1 gallon down to the sump. However, I did design my sump to hold the entire back chamber volume which is 11 gallons (at operating level). My sump is 24 x 20 x 16", but there is an RO chamber along one side so the actual sump area is 20 x 19.5 x 16" which is 26 gallons if it's full to 15.5" (minus glass widths of baffles and such). With the tank running, the water in the sump is 8.5" deep which is 14.5 gallons. Add that 14.5 gallons to the 11 gallons in the back chamber (should it ever fully drain to the sump) and you have 25.5 gallons which fills the sump to 15". This sounds ok, but then there's the backflow from the tank/piping and the volume from the skimmer when it's off... After all this planned redundancy though, I did my calculations with the back chamber being 3" wide (which is what I ordered), and I was surprised when the tank arrived with a 3.75" wide back chamber and my sump was already built. So, my sump won't hold the backflow from the tank/piping, the backflow from the reactors/skimmer/etc because the back chamber holds 2 gallons more than planned. If the back chamber was 3" as planned, then it would have all worked out. You just have to plug numbers into an aquarium volume calculator and figure out how big your sump needs to be. Don't forget to take glass thickness into consideration. You need the inside measurements. Also, I don't know the water depth for the skimmer you picked. I made sure the skimmers I bought didn't need deep water. Some need 11" deep water, and I just didn't want that extra volume down there. |
I'm waiting for paint to dry, so I did some rough calculations for you...
Assuming the actual dimensions of your back chamber is 39.5" long and 3.75" wide, and assuming the operating depth is 15", then you'll need just under 10 gallons of space in your sump, plus the volume your tank will drain (if it drains an inch that's a little over 3 gallons) and pipes/skimmer (shouldn't be more than 2-3 gallons), etc. So you need a total of about 16 gallons of empty space in the sump for full redundancy. If your sump is say 22" wide and you need say 9" depth in the sump, then if your sump is 24" long it will have 21 gallons in operating volume, add to that your 16 gallons, and if it's 16" deep (15" to be safe) you're probably going to overflow. If you made the sump 30 x 18 x 16" your operating volume would be 21 gallons, and total volume would be 35 gallons (to 15" depth). 21 + 16 = 37 gallons. That won't work either (for full redundancy). Play around with the numbers and you'll figure something out. Don't forget to consider the frag tank too. That'll throw a wrench in it. :D 36 x 18 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 41 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 24 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 24 is 40 gallons. Too close for comfort, and certainly won't work with your frag tank. 36 x 22 x 16" total volume (to 15" height) is 50 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you 4 gallons of "insurance" space. 36 x 22 x 17" total volume (to 16" height) is 53 gallons. Running volume at 9" depth is 30 gallons. Add 16 gallons to 30 is 46 gallons. That gives you another 3 more gallons of space, 7 gallons total. That's probably enough for your frag tank too depending how you plumb it. |
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This will definitely take a pad of paper and some time to figure out. The frag tank also throws another level of complexity to the equations. Any idea where a guy can find a chart with standard tank dimensions? |
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http://www.aquariumdimensions.com/ If you want a standard tank for a sump you'll have to go with a 36" tank, and your options are 36 x 12 x 12" (20 long), 36 x 12 x 16" (called 29 or 30 gallon), 36 x 18 x 16" (40 gallon breeder), 36 x 18 x 18" (50 gallon, not usually easy to find), 36 x 18 x 21" (65 gallon). 36 x 18 x 18" (50 gallon) filled to 17" total volume is 46 gallons. Operating volume would be 24 gallons, plus 16 gallons is 40 gallons. 6 gallons spare. That would probably do the trick. I wouldn't want a sump deeper than 18" since it's too hard to reach into it. I think that's the only one that has the volume for you. |
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What kind of floors do you have in near the tank? What's being risked? :D |
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Ok, after some digging this is what I have come up with.
If I were to get my hands on a 37 gallon tank: 30x12x22 If it were filled to 30x12x21 = 32.7 gallons If I have a running height of 10" (prob high) 30x12x10=15.6 gals Therefore 33.7-15.6=17.1gals with 1" of sump space to spare. We (you actuall, thanks) determined my total back flow volume is 16gallons being generous. Based off of these numbers a 37gal AGA should work? Am I missing something? The stand will be 36-40" tall so there should be plenty of room to accommodate the height. Thanks for tanking the time to work through this with me. |
You will hate life if your sump is 22" deep and inside a stand. Depending which skimmer you use, that means the top of the skimmer would be almost level with the top of the sump.
I would really try to modify your stand design to accommodate a sump 18" wide. Are you using 2x4s? I can mock up a design for you, or find a pic online. The trouble with bottom drilled tanks is that there isn't room at the back of the tank to run a 2x4 because the bulkheads will be in the way. That's why I went with a steel stand for my tank. The steel is 1" rather than 1.5" with a 2x4 which is the difference between it fitting and not fitting. Do you want your stand to be flush with the tank and thus be 40 x 22" or do you want the stand to be a bit bigger than the actual tank? If the stand can be 41 x 23" then you'll have room behind the bulkheads to run a 2x4 on edge. How tall do you want your stand? |
Many people place the sump on the floor, and the stand framing is around it, so the sump has to fit between the framing. If you put a bottom in the stand then you can put the sump on top of that and there will be more width (but less height for a skimmer).
Like this: http://blog.aquanerd.com/wp-content/...nk-Stand-4.jpg Instead of this: http://www.centercup.net/images/125b...tand1_1-08.jpg |
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I'll agree with Mindy on this one. I had a 20" sump once and it was torture. A 22" sump is what nightmares are made of.
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If it's a concept built tank get matt to quote you on a steel stand...I don't think my stand costed 325 and it was powder coated.
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Lol mise well price out a custom sump as well...make the trip worth while.
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Well, got a couple of changes coming down the pipe right now. Priced the stand out through Matt. It's a total no brainer to do it through him, price wise. It throws a bit of a wrench into our plans of taking the SUV to Calgary, but if gas prices keep coming down like they are it's really not that big of an issue. Anyone that owns a gmc 2500 with the 6.0l engine knows this struggle is real!
I also, after talking a look at a few tank threads with concept tanks, have decided to go with black silicone on the display. I have it set to have all the visible edges polished so I hope that this doesn't take away from that.(Opinions?) |
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I hear you on gas prices - we have a Dodge Sport with Hemi. It's actually not bad on the highway, but it is TERRIBLE in the city. |
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Ya I get a whopping 11mpg on the highway with that beast. If I'm pulling a skid steer I get 8. Might as well bought a peterbuilt. |
Felt like i had to show this off, since i have a tank journal now, i might as well do it here.
Top picture is from the day i moved my 15gal into my 20 Long. This monti cap broke in half during transport and this is what was left. The bottom pic is 10 month later. http://i.imgur.com/uqtpsNz.jpg?1 |
Looking forward to following your tank build.
I have Matt and Dave making my new 180 gal tank as well. Awesome guys to deal with. Fully understand the drive to pick up the tank, I live about 8 hours away as well. From people I have talked to it will be worth the drive for the quality they put into their builds. I just about got them to make my stand as well but decided to build it myself out of aluminum. Material costs only ended up being around $200. Had to add small gussets in the corners to install magnets for the outer skin. Here is a pic of the stand frame not yet polished or painted.Only weighs about 40 lbs. Attachment 14876 Mike |
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We were headed up to Edmonton that weekend for a hockey game before this tank started to unfold. My wife's an Oilers fan and I'm a leafs fan so we are going to catch that game. I guess u can say it all kinda lined up. My wife's aunt lives and Calgary so we will shoot across the day after the game and even have a place to stay. I'll be checking out the local stores while I'm there. Quote:
Glad to have u tagging along. Leave a link for your build so I can follow, if you have a journal going. |
Glad you got the stand figured out. Lol I was going to build my own stand as well until I found out the price from concept and the warranty that comes with it. After I found that out it was a no brainer lol
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Does anyone have any experience with the he coral box skimmers? I have been reading good reviews on them, and am considering either a Dc300 or Dc500. They are almost the exact price of the BM Curve 500 but you get a controllable do pump. I will be running a Jebao return pump and powerheads so the continuity would be nice. Any experience/opinions?
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Well our trip to Alberta is coming to a close. Here is a quick sneak peek at the goodies coming home. Unfortunately short a stand, but it will be shipped soon. Details to follow.
http://i.imgur.com/Boyjbdb.jpg |
Well here's where I'm at with this build:
We took a trip out to Edmonton on Thursday to watch the leafs play the oilers. On Friday we spent the morning and afternoon at the west Edmonton mall before driving to Calgary. Saturday was quite the adventure, we spent all day touring the fish stores in Calgary, 7 of them to be exact. Got to take a look at my new display and frag tank before they were wrapped up for the trip home. We ran into a little bit of a snag. It turns out that the stand I had ordered, after searching the entire store and compound, never got forwarded off to the stand builder, who happened to be standing there while we were looking for the stand. Needless to say my truck was going to get loaded up to head back to Regina short a stand. This was handled swiftly by Dave, he committed to getting the builder to rush it into production and is covering the courier cost to have it sent to me in Regina. Thanks Dave. While loading my truck on Sunday I got to talking to Jason about my plans of buying a 50gal and making it into a sump. I explained how much trouble I was having finding a bare 50gal. He threw out the idea of having them build me one and getting it sent with the stand. So back into the shop we went to price it out. After getting back home and a few patient email responses from Jason this is what is being made for me. http://i.imgur.com/fGaWvy4.jpg We're hoping to get the sump and stand on the truck to Regina for Monday. Things are starting to come together. Here are a couple of pictures of the frag tank unwrapped, and with the two IM 102 frag racks I picked up from Roskoreef. They fit in there great! http://i.imgur.com/CQgG5VJ.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/i64l1If.jpg?1 This is my least favourite configuration: http://i.imgur.com/jPSMd2l.jpg?1 My preferred configuration: http://i.imgur.com/Ud903xG.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/0y710W5.jpg?1 And finally a couple of sneak peeks of the display tank: http://i.imgur.com/MhvxZ25.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/Le2juF3.jpg?1 |
Wow those racks fit nicely! Nice setup!
Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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Well I picked up a Rodi unit today from a local reefer who shut his tank down. I am very happy not to have to lug water from the grocery store anymore!
http://i.imgur.com/R1GKNeS.jpg?1 It came with a tds meter. I have had a few tufts of hair alge popping up in my display and what looked like detritus on my sand bed I have been trying to vacuum out every water change. I cut back feedings and upped water changes to no avail, and started to suspect the source water a month or so ago. Tonight armed with the new tds meter I took a reading on the bottled water I have been using. This is what I found: http://i.imgur.com/DvpYFPJ.jpg?1 I am fairly certain that this might be the cause of my struggles with the blooms of algae. I feel like when you are running your water through an Rodi unit and coming out with 0ppm that 76 is quite high. Am I wrong? I unfortunately have to work tomorrow (these 60 hour weeks really eat into Reefing time lol) so I likely won't get the unit online until Sunday. If I am coming out with 0ppm out of the unit I think I might just dump the 10gals of mixed water I have on hand for my next water change and make new. Would you, if you knew it was mixed with 76ppm water?? |
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