Pump to tank size
 

Whats everyones running for a return pump?? On what size tank??
I am curious as to the amount of flow per volume??
:biggrin:

I'm running a CSL T3 (~700GPH after it T's off and comes back into the tank) on my 37G cube as the return.

105g tank
mag12 return

94 gal Mak4, 25 gal MAG 12.

Steve

155/MAG12

90Gal/MAG9.5

30gal/Mag9.5 (running through a SCWD)

I've also got a MJ500 and a MJ750 (old MJ models) running for surface movement.

I estimate that I've got a turnover rate of around 30-35x

-Richer

OK got to add an additional comment here. don't worry so much about your return pump. to size it you want to get over 5X / hour turnover in the tank (closer to 10x is better) anymore than that and you have to do some pretty fancy plumbing to keep it from acting like a pressure washer.

my suggestion would be to set up an approx return rate of 10X then use some of the new power heads available like the tunze and the new Rio seio to give your tank current. I have an approximate current flow rate in my 94 gal of over 52X per hour and when I install the two new Rio sieo's in the tank it will increase my flow rate to 72X (6480 gal/hour) I'm hoping that will peal the mushrooms and button polyps off the rock :mrgreen: this doesn't include the mag 12 driving my chiller/UV or the mag 12 driving my other tank from the common sump, or the MAK4 driving my skimmer, this is just main tank current.

Steve

It is sort of relevant what your tank size is and your pump but more important is how much head loss you have for that pump with "your" tank.
http://reefs.org/pumps/ -a really good head loss calculator.

(head loss is the over all flow loss from height and other plumping)

The flow depends on what you want to keep. For SPS the min. suggested is 10X your tank volume. Some peple run way higher then that.
My tank I'm planning now 250g, I'm trying to get at least 3000 gph of flow.
Two pumps from the sump, two closed loops.

Hope that helps. I've been reading way to much regarding pumps lately trying to decide which ones. It's the only decsion left and item to order for my tank.

Dave

:eek:

75 Gal with Mag 18

Al

its my nanno fed from the main sump, it opens into two 1" lines on oposit sides of the tank (also have a maxijet1200 in ther) it gives a gentle current that my torch, frogspawn and brain seam to like.

Steve

94 gal?? Is that a "cube" tank??

Thanks again Steve!! (Man your full of good info tonight... :razz: )

I think I shall probably go with a Mag 9 in the sump for my 40 gal tank.
That should give me about ~14x turnover rate after head loss.
Then I can always add a few of those new powerheads like you suggested if I find there is not enough turbulence for my liking. :mrgreen:

Tank
 

I run a mak 4 on a 75 gln tank, split into 2 returns, one note I wanted to add, was a lot of people do use powerheads to add extra flow in their tank, but u must b careful in that every piece that u add it will also add heat, in fact every power head will add appr 1-2 degrees of heat to a tank, well at least to my 75 gln tank, to a larger tank they proably do not add quite as much, but u get the gist of what I am tanking about, also an inline pump does not add quite as much heat as a in sump pump does.

So something to keep in mind unless u already have a chiller, and in that case it really does not matter.

Adie

now I 'm wondering
 

do I have enough turnover? Running a mag 12 and a mag 7 plus a couple power heads in my 180. Still have a couple of low flow areas behind my rocks but everything in the tank has some motion to it.

almost, it is a 36" x 24" x 25"

Steve

It looks like a lot of people here are trying to supply the tank water movement with their return pump. In fact, the slower the flow thru the sump, the more time the skimmer/heater/etc have to act on the water. You don't want to create 10x your tank volume goig thru your sump!
For intank circulation, rely more on powerheads or closed loop setups. This lets you customize your flow as your corals grow. I recall when I first setup a tank and tried to get my MAG 12 to output in several locations, and in the end each output had almost no noticealbe flow. After plumbing losses, each output maybe had 300gph flow, which is equivelent to a regular powerhead. And unless you have a smaller tank with a huge pump, that may not supply enough flow to keep detritus supended of to provide optimum growth for the corals.
As to the heat comment, I don't notice any heat generated from my 2 streams, 1 powerhead or MAG 12 submerged pump. But my tank is a larger volume, so it might be aconcern on smaller tanks.
Just something to think about...

Re: now I 'm wondering
 

More powerheads - try a couple of those new Rio Seio and see how it goes.

Steve dropped by last night with a couple of new Seio's he just bought. Pretty slick looking little pumps. With all th eattachments off, they look like small Streams. I'm anxious to see them working, I'll probably end up getting one myself.

reply
 

I Guess I might b on the over kill side. 54 gallon corner tank with a Rio 20HF. Gives me about 1000gph after head loss, I use a spray bar run vertically down the back corner of the tank spraying out at a 90 degree angle. Maxi jet 1200 for a bit more flow to the front. :cool:

reply
 

Nice avatar Allan!

Danny, I'd say the spray bar will cut that 1000gph down to nothing, unless you have it full of 1/4" holes.

reply
 

I do, about a dozen to 15 per side and 1 on the very bottom. The bar is about 14 inches long and the holes are 1\4. It give a very even outward floe that seems efficient for a corner shaped tank.

My return to my 230g is from a LG4mdqxsc(or something like that) pump. With restrictions it's about 900 to 1000 gph.

Nice a slow turn over rate from the sump but I have the same pump on the closed loop as well as a 2250gph tunze stream and a 3700gph stream.

:confused: Two returns on my 230g each with their own Little Giant. Ones a three and ones a four. I'm now thinking to cut this back to give the skimmer more time as Brad mentioned.

I got a couple of those new Seio pumps and I guess I must have been expecting something more. :neutral: However, I probably should have gotten bigger ones.

Oh, and a Mak4 split into two returns on a 67g. That one seems perfect.

People should list thier drain sizes too. That might be handy to know for newbie's aswell.

For what it's worth, I was running a Mag12 on my 150 gal, with a 2" overflow. I felt it was underpowered.

I wish I had know that a mag 18 would be too much. I am thinking about putting a smaller pump on the sump and using the 18 for a closed loop.

AL

I am going to disagree a little here (rare but yes once and a while it happens) I think you do want between 5 and 10x tank volume through your sump if you ware running the skimmer off you sump. if you only have 1X/hour flowing through your sump and you have a mag 12 on a 33 gal sump you are going to skim that sump aprox 30X per hour (assuming no loss so maybe 15X will be more realistic) but you will only be replacing the water totaly in the sump 1X per hour this will give you an ultra clean water sump and it will seam like your skimmer isn't doing much where as if you have a higher turn over in your sump/tank set up you will ensure more efficient skimming of the actual tank volume.

Steve

Steve, this is a first. You and I disagreeing!! Wow! Anyway, I agree that anywhere between 5x and 10x thru the sump is fine, but my real point was that people shouldn't try to supply all their flow with a return pump. It seldoms does a good enough job, and they might be sacrificing other things (like skimming potential).

ah ok so you were stating the same thing I did originaly :mrgreen:

Steve

No. I was making up new (good) info. :razz:

Just to add one more reason, the higher flow you have going up and down between tank and sump also runs the risk of introducing microbubbles. Not that this is showstopper to a tank but they can be annoying if they're really bad.

[the higher flow you have going up and down between tank and sump also runs the risk of introducing microbubbles]

Tony

Whats the why and what up on that?

Dave
Edit...
how do you use the quote feature?

that is assuming your plumbing isn't up to snuf or you are running to low of a level in the sump. you can actualy tame a lot of flow depending on how you plumb your return.. I have a measured 1000gph returning through 6, 1/2" lines and it works out to just a gentle flow from each one :rolleyes:

Steve

There's a little box on the top of the message that you want to quote...then you can edit out what you don't want. :biggrin:

I see... thanks

reply
 

I personally don't believe that there should be any issue in regards to the amount of flow for a return pump from a sump. Essentially the water in the sump should be regarded as the same water as the tank, they are one unit. The issue at hand should be the amount of flow travelling through the skimmer itself, to achieve optimal contact time. The skimmer will grab the same number of protiens regardless of turnover, assuming that the minimum turnover is achieved. I agree with Steve on this one.

Re: reply
 

OK, I'm just not sure that's what Steve said. And I've read articles that counter what you "personallydon't believe", so I 'll try and dig those up.