Hippo tang has white spots
 

Hi everyone this is my first post!!! About time :). Anyway I'm A little concerned with my blue tang. I have had the blue tang for about two weeks and three days into having him in my tank he started to develop white spots. He is eating and swimming he seems okay. Is it Ich? What should I do? I have read from other sites and forms that I shouldn't be too concerned A) because he is eating and B) he seems to be pretty active. But I'm still worried because the spot seems to be getting worse and I do see him from time to time trying to rub his side. I also see him kind of make these jittery swims like he is being bothered. I bought a cleaner shrimp about three days ago and was hoping that that this would help. But still I'm not sure what to do.

I've been told blue tangs are known for getting ich, even in pristine water conditions. They tend to come and go and not much you can do about it.

Post a pic if you can its probably ich if you didn't Qt him read up on all that goes along with ich if you want to treat it properly

Spear it!!!

Welcome ;)

This simply isn't true. There are many things you can do about it. You may not like doing it, but you can 100% eliminate ich from your display tank.

You will of course have to leave the tank fishless for 72 days but during that time you can treat your fish for ich and then observe them in an isolated environment to make sure it truly is eliminated.

The most popular ways to treat them are with copper, using the tank transfer method or hyposalinity (not really recommended anymore). Personally I prefer to treat tangs that have ich with copper, seachem cupramine to be exact, but tank transfer method might be easier for you to do assuming you don't have too many fish and can get 2 extra sets of tanks heaters ect.

+1. Best treatment is to quarantine ALL FISH in a suitable size bare bottomed (nothing in it other than cut up PVC pipe for fish to hide) sponge filter air stone. Leave your display tank fallow for 72 days( just to be sure the ich has run its course) treat the fish with SeaChem cupramine.

I new I had to take drastic measures. Unbelievable!!!!! What a bunch of blank. Well I guess I have to grab my 33g in the garage and become a vet. First hard lesson learned in my new tank. "Always have a quarantine tank for new fish"

I did some digging and I think I'm going to do the copper treatment. I'm a little scared of the the hypo salinity. Seems like a lot of work and I don't have time each day to be doing all the things involved.


Thanks guy for the input

Wish me luck.....

Btw do you think I could use my old penguin 125 bio wheel penguin filter in the QT?

Ok now I'm really confused what to do. After my last post I did some more reading and ran into this article on Reef Central.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2229271&page=2

I'm liking the tank transfer method, but I am intrigued by the few comments about the UV sterilizer. Some of the members said that they use a UV and have never had a problem with ich.

I should probably let everyone know that my tank is a 90g that is 6 weeks old with 100lbs live rock and has no coral. I have five fish, inverts, snails, and 2 shrimp. My water perimeters are good. My goal is a thriving sps reef tank.

Has anyone used a UV before? With what results for ich and how is the tank doing as a reef?

Having a UV Sterilizer on a tank holding Ich-prone fish like the Hippo Tang is a good idea. A UV Sterilizer interrupts the life cycle of Ich, but the life cycle can be anywhere from about 24-72 days (temperature dependent among of things). Since this is such a long time, a UV Sterilizer is not a good treatment, though it is a good preventive.

As long as the fish is active and eating the tank transfer method is a good option, but if the fish is not in good condition TT, like UV sterilizer, can take too long and the fish may perish. For me, it's about common sense; if the fish is covered in Ich, then treatment with a medication is often the best bet. If the fish has a mild case, then TT may be the best bet.

In regards to your other comments, is this your first reef tank? For a tank that's only 6 weeks old, you have a lot of fish in there already. IMO, you're probably moving a bit too fast. Did you use 100% live rock or did you use dry rock too? Dry rock is not equal to live rock. What brand of test kits are you using to test the tank? Are you using a refractometer or hydrometer for testing salinity? What are the actual numbers you've tested? "Parameters are good" is a bit vague. Just trying to make sure you're on the right track, regardless of the Hippo Tang situation. :)

If you are doing the copper treatment you have to remove the fish and quarantine them in a separate tank. The copper will leach into the rock and continue to kill the inverts long after the treatment is done. Yes you penguin bio wheel will work fine. Just remove the carbon filter, it will absorb the copper rending it weak.

No it's no my first reef tank. I never got to the point of sps, but had lps. I had one about 7 years ago, but moved and you know how it goes. Yes I have 100% live rock and a 2 " sand bed, with a sump. My tank cycled in like 3 weeks before the nitrates were at like 0, then I added inverts. Then a couple fish and so on. I use API test kits and a refractometer. I've tested everything with regards to fish. Ph 8.3, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate 5 ppm or less. Salinity 1.025, temp 81. I have a vertex in 100 skimmer and that's it.

As for the UV it seems that there are some reefers that use one in the display reef tank and there are others that are dead set against it on a reef system. Should I use a UV on my display tank? Again my goal is a nice Sps tank.

Btw I'll start setting up my tank transfer set up today.

Sounds like a good start! Maybe a bit fast with the fish addition of 5 in 3 weeks. Once you start getting serious into the corals I would suggest you upgrade your test kits - specifically for calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, nitrate, and phosphate. You don't need them now though. I don't mind API for nitrate and ammonia, though I've had the API kits go kinda wacky when they get older.

I can't say I've ever seen issues I could correlate to the use of a UV Sterilizer except maybe on some tanks it adds too much heat. If you have central air conditioning you should be fine though.

Awesome. How's the Hippo doing today?

So what do you suggest for test kits. I already have my calcium magnesium and phosphate test kit but it's an API one. Seachem? The hippo tang seems to be actually doing better the white spots are less, but one of my other fish does have one or two spots on him now. I haven't really had the time yet to set up my hospital tank I'll do it today. I think I'm just going to go us the copper treatment it seems to be the way that has the least amount of work. I was reading that only Seachem ammonia test kits work in a copper treatment tank. Is that true? Can I use my API ammonia tester?

Apparently my biggest concern with the hospital tank with copper is keeping the ammonia down. So once I get the tank set up and I get my little penguin filter running I'm going to put a piece of live rock in the filter to start the bacterial filter. Think that's a good idea? Any suggestions on how to keep my Monias down? How much water should I change? How often? I know I have to be trying to get all the poop and uneaten food as I do a water change but should I do one every three days or two days? what is a good routine?

Thanks for all your input!

I really like Elos for all kits, but they can be hard to find, and a bit more money than the rest. www.reefsupplies.ca has the full line, and free shipping over $149.

I like the Hanna Checkers for alkalinity and phosphate. I don't like the Hanna Calcium kit - it's tough to get a consistent reading. You have to be VERY diligent with your accuracy in testing.

Salifert kits are ok. They are cheaper than Elos, and easier to find. I find the calcium and alkalinity kits read quite a bit higher than other kits, so if I'm using these ones I tend to err on the high side.

I do not recommend SeaChem or Hagen kits for anything.


You can also use API ammonia test kits and Seachem Ammonia Alert badges. Be aware if you use the Ammonia Alert badge that it tends to not actually be accurate as far as the reading goes, but it does work as an alert - as in, if it changes color there is ammonia, you just don't know how much. :lol:

There are two different types of ammonia test kits - Nessler and salicylate. ONLY Nessler kits are compatible with ammonia detoxifier prodcts (like Prime and AmQuel). API and SeaChem are both Nessler. I think the API ammonia kit is better than the SeaChem one.

Don't put rock or sand in with copper treatment - it absorbs the copper and makes the treatment less effective. It also makes it so you can't use the rock or sand with any invertebrates again - ever.

Use Prime or AmQuel to control ammonia. Use the bottle label for dosing instructions as far as how much to add on each dose, but you will need to do multiple doses. You will end up having to dose twice a day probably. The dosing is something like 5 mL for 50 gallons - you may need to dose that 5 mL twice a day.

If you are using lots of ammonia detoxifier (having to dose twice a day) then you should do 25% water change every 2-3 days. If you don't have to dose a bunch of ammonia detoxifier (like later on when there is no medication) then 15% once a week is enough.

You should be bottom siphoning to remove uneaten food and fish poop everyday. Use a piece of rigid airline tubing attached to a length of flexible airline tubing to make a small siphon hose. You can bottom vacuum without removing much water.

Also, very important - you have to replace the medication you remove during a waterchange. If you do a 25% waterchange, then you have to re-dose 25% medication unless the medication package tells you different. Such as Furan 2 tells you when to do water changes and how much.

Copper may be the least amount of work, but it's the most dangerous method of treating marine ich to fish, and to a lesser extend, to human.
I would suggest you looking up tank transfer method (TTM) for treating marine ich.
Instead of a test kit for ammonia, get some seachem ammonia badge. it's a sticky thing that you stick in the tank under water and it can show you the level of ammonia (approximately) so you don't have to test it constantly.
Another benefit of using TTM is that you can use ammonia binder (like prime) to reduce ammonia to a lesser toxic form. You can not use such binder in water that has copper. It makes copper more toxic.
Good luck.

In my research of using a UV sterilizer, I found that there was some misunderstanding of how it worked etc etc.
I talked to the manufacturer and was told that depending on the amount of water flow run through it, made the difference on what the UV killed. If it ran too little of water it killed many good things that help a tank, but if you are looking to kill just 'parasites", bacteria, ich etc etc you need to run alot of water through it.

I have a 40 watt Aquaviolet and was told to run 900GPH to kill just the "bad Stuff, and only 600 gph, will kill everything, including the good things. I believe the numbers I quoted are correct, but has been awhile since I set it all up, but talk to your manufacturer to get right info. http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/sites...20UV%20FAQ.pdf

The belief is that you just run water thru it and all is good. This is not the case, as per Aquaviolets, tech guy, whose info was provided to me verbally.

I have 55w Uv sterilizer on my tank and I have no problem.I have 4 blue tangs and they are all happy and never had any issues with ich,so I think the uv light is a very good prevention.

Do you have corals in your tanks? If so what type? I'm wondering if the UV effects corals.

Yes I have.I have mushrooms,lps(hammer, octospawn, candy cane,alveopora, elegance coral,plate coral) and sps(birdnest, acropora,catpaw poci) and they are all healthy growing really nice,except for some sps,some of them they grow very slow but I would blame the lights for that,have led lights.I have them for 2 years now and I hado the uv on for about a year and I didn't notice no difference on my corals after I set it up.I think most off the fears about uv is not true, it doesn't kill the good bacteria,this bacteria lives on rock surface and just a small amount free swimming.I have it It works perfectly for me I have no issue with my fish, they never get sick and I have about 10 tangs wich are known for getting ich super fast but since I have the uv is disease free

I'm happy to hear that. I think a UV may be one of my next purchases.

Got my first quarantine tank set up I'm just making sure that the parameters are the same as my display tank salinity temperature and then I will start putting the fish in. I got some PVC elbows and now I have my trap in my display tank to try to catch these fish. Soon as I put the trap in the DT with food in it the shrimp was in there within five seconds. The fish are starting to get curious and you can see them getting closer and closer to the trap but I haven't got one yet. It's been a half hour.

Btw I decided to go with the tank transfer method after all. After all the reading I've done I just feel that that's the safest and easiest. So I will be switching the fish to a different tank with same water parameters every three days for six transfers.

Keep in mind that when you finish the TT method with the fish, your tank will still have ick in it.
You usually should keep your DT empty for 8 weeks. Otherwise there is a big chance that your fish could be re infected.

Good choice....but why 6 transfers instead of 4?

I read that you have to keep your DT fallow for 10 weeks. Apparently ich has a life cycle of 72 days, so that's what I will do. I have a 33 gallon sitting around so once the fish have finished their treatment I'll set that 33 up and put them all in there until the 72 day follow has come to an end.

I will have to do a minimum of five transfers. The reason is, it's probably gonna take me a day to two days to catch all my fish out of my DT. I caught two yesterday but still have three more. I set up a bottle trap. It works good but you have to be patient. So right now I have two fish sitting in a 15 gallon tank once I catch the other three either today or tomorrow then I'll start my TT. So I guess I was think I may as well do a total of six. Besides I read that some do six even though 4 seems to work. You never know I may change my mind as I get to the tail end of the treatment.

I did not mean to imply that a UV was not good. I just meant that if you do not run the right amount of water thru it per hour, you also kill the good things is all.

I would just rather kill just the ich and bad parasites by running the proper GPH, then run the wrong GPH and kill everything. As I mentioned before, most people, including myself, believed you just hook up any old pump and away you go.

This is untrue, it does kill good bacteria and micro organisms (food) etc if the wrong gph is used. Is it detrimental to a tank? No. Does it harm corals No. Yes, it does kill/control the ich etc as well, hence why we use it.

It just means you need to add typical supplements to the tank to replenish what the UV kills.

It is a choice, on whether you would rather use supplements/medicines or make sure your pump is rated for the UV sterilizer. I personally would rather let mother nature control the natural processes than have to add chemicals etc, never mind the expense etc, so I made sure I used the proper sized pump to kill ich and bad bacteria instead of killing the good stuff as well

The manufacturer supplied this info to me as well as the link explaining and showing what gets killed at certain GPHs

I keep hearing people say if you use copper you can never have invertebrates in there again, and it will affect corals, etc. I started my first marine tank in 2005 and it was a fowler. For that tank it got Cupramine whenever needed, and needless to say, at first I didn't QT fish so that product was used multiple times. I then decided to get into LPS so ran a bit larger amounts of carbon for a few months, then added LPS, then a full clean up crew, then came the SPS. Some of the older guys on here may remember my old tank, as it carried many rare fish as well as lots of hard to keep SPS. The leaching of copper that is always talked about never happened. I have seen the same results from many reefers that I dealt with. Maybe we were all lucky I guess . . .

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not about to test that on my reef :) I've read it enough times to believe there's something to it, so I'll err on the side of caution.

Okay guys sorry it's been a while since my last post but I've been really busy. Actually I've had a bit of a challenge trying to trap one fish in my tank(dam clown). It took a week so now I have all the fish in one tank they've been there for three days as of tomorrow morning and I will start my second TT tomorrow. Did I mention I decided to do that? Yeah I didn't think it was wise to do copper.

I've also started a quarantine tank three days ago and it is now cycling. Lesson learned two new hobbyists be sure to set up a quarantine tank. There's a lot of work involved in getting this all organized but I feel like I'm starting to make some headway. I also was able to get a 55 gallon plastic food barrel that I've now turned into a mixing station. One of the best ideas. I'm so happy I did this it works great and it makes the changing of water so much easier.

I'm not going to do a UV sterilizer. As long as I have a quarantine tank then I will be able to protect my tank from various diseases.

I'll post some pics of my new hospital station and quarantine tank as well as that 55 gallon.

The mixing station. You can see a little bit of the ROI line on the right.

Attachment 13928

Mixing pump, heater, and float valve.

Attachment 13929

Quarantine tank on left, and two TT tanks. All ready to go!

Attachment 13931

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but I saw you got the food grade big barrels. Are they from this:

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/pml/grd/4912464449.html

It says it used to house liquid sugar so I'm not sure if it's safe for mixing saltwater for tank use.

Yes. I just washed it out with water and vinegar and then dried it out with a towel and rinsed with RO. You could fill it with vinegar water and let sit for a day. Then wash it with pure RO to be sure. But the vinegar and tape water should be fine. But be sure to wipe it dry. The metals from the tap water would dry on the plastic if you let it air dry. My fish seem fine so I guess what I did worked.