|
Ideas on quick phosphate control
So let's say you had a 300g tank that you transferred an existing 300g full of SPS into in one day. Then let's say you tested PO4 and found it to be close to 3PPM.
How would you manage that? I have no experience with phosphate issues and I'm not sure how to help this guy. Ideas? |
100 % water change?
|
Quote:
Problem is the rock is all old dead rock that will keep leaching, so that would be multiple 100% changes over a few months. |
What was the po4 level at normally in the old 300?
|
phosphate
use precision solutions phosphate reducer-more bang for your buck,10-15 gal waterchange every 1-2 days(as not to shock the system) add a bag of seachem roaphos(if i remember right) and change out every three days.keep monitoring every 2-3 days till you can cut back on the waterchanges and seachem.keep using phosphate reducer (about 180 drops a day-i was using 160 in my 240).run roaphos to keep it stable
|
Quote:
|
Lanthium chloride. Dose according to bottle and test your ALK.
|
Yes lanthium chloride works wonders for removing PO4 quickly, just be carerfull
|
Quote:
I agree lanthum chloride will do it but won't happen over night and the amount you'll need is going to be expensive . |
Personally I'd set up a temp frag tank with good water while I dealt with the 300g ,I would get water bak n track as I'm sure if it's truly 3ppm then there's probably other issues as well.
I can assume you've double checked the testers |
sounds like todd? add 21 big clams:biggrin:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Nothing seems to help the crap leaking from my rock. Running two different kinds of gfo
|
Though it's only available tank could he not use a few totes to keep coral in while dealing with issue. Leaching from rock it will take a while to get out and I imagine going to be a algea bloom
|
|
What's your nitrate at? If you are nitrate limited, try dosing amino acid to raise the nitrate level to help biologically remove the phosphate. If I'm not mistaken you are running Zeovit, so that should bring the level down fairly quickly.
I used ammonia and sugar to quickly remove phosphate from my rocks before I set up my tank. It worked amazing. |
Lanthanum chloride will be the fastest and cheapest way to reduce phosphates. Do a slow drip into a filter sock to catch precipitates so they won't bother any livestock. Don't reduce phosphates by more than 0.1ppm per day and you should be at a manageable level within a month. There are many posts about using lanthanum on RC, do a search for more information.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
I think fozdown will be the tool of choice. And prayers to the reef gods.
|
Phos guard is very effective but because of how fast phosphate is removed it may cause your corals to be stressed. Ferric oxide would gradually remove phosphate which is a safer bet.
Best of luck! |
Quote:
Seaklear phosphate remover (a product for swimming pools, lanthanum chloride) in a 32 oz bottle removes 3ppm from 10,000 gallons for around $30. |
Hi Brad,
I would recommend the Foz Down. ;-) It is a Lanthanum based product and when used in moderation does not cause a noticeable alkalinity drift. I have recently sourced the high purity Lanthanum directly so have been able to double the concentration and keep the price the same. :-) The bang for the buck of Foz Down is DOUBLED but consequently more care must be exercised in its application... don't accidentally spill the bottle into your tank. The problem with the pool type Lanthanum removers is that there is several different grades of Lanthanum available on the market. I highly doubt they are going to use a more expensive higher purity Lanthanum for swimming pools. It would cost you less than $30 to completely remove the Phosphate from that tank using Foz Down. If the Foz Down is dosed in an ATO or through a dosing pump the phosphate that the old rock releases will also be removed. Thus you won't have to replace the rock. I personally have used it on a 240 gallon aquarium which had 1.4mg/l of Phosphate and the rock was 5+ years old. Last year the tank had an average phosphate level of <0.08mg/l with no gfo. I use Foz Down daily on my 600 gallon Acro system and the colours are amazing. There is a CanReef member who has used it to do a similar thing on his display tank in his store. Perhaps he will chime in on this thread. Cheers, Tim |
Agent Green is another lanthanum chloride product at Big Al's that I used on my pukani. Seemed to work good.
|
I too use the phoz down with great results. But be sure not to drop it to fast as i have gotten carried away a couple times after testing and added an extra dose on top of my dosers normal amount and found a random white sps the next day. Just find a dose that steadily yet quickly drops it and keep it pretty steady until you are within range.
|
there has been some reports of lanthanum chloride affecting Tangs of the genus Zebrasoma. any experience with this ?
Steve |
plus there are some other inherent problem like removing the resultant flocculent and the potential for deposits on equipment and tank sides, which reportably is very hard to remove from the glass and causes problems with the impellers in pumps.
Steve |
Again why you would do a slow drip into a filter sock to catch the precipitate
|
I set him up with foz down, now he's gotta deal with it :) The number of tangs has been significantly reduced.
|
I am not sure about the tang issue. But have no problem with buildup of the flocks as i dose mine in the chamber before my filter socks so they catch all the phos that has binded. I do find that my filter socks last about 1/2 the time that they did before i started with the phoz down. But they are much easier to wash then a dirty gfo reactor.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Usage of Foz Down
Quote:
Quote:
Hard Calcium deposits on the heaters, magnetic impellers and occasionally the glass is caused by an unbalanced buffering system. Usually the Calcium is too high. If you keep your Magnesium at at least 1350 or 3 times the Calcium level the precipitation should stop. If it doesn't then raise the Magnesium slowly until it does. Then correct the issue that is causing the imbalance. The buildup is very hard to remove but the Mag Float Scrape works very well on glass only. You must use extreme caution as it will easily scratch glass if you get sand or grit caught in it. Deposits on impellers and heaters can be removed with vinegar or diluted Muriatic Acid. Muriatic Acid is very nasty so extreme caution is recommended. Quote:
If you have any questions please feel free to PM me. Cheers, Tim |
Quote:
seams to start within a day or two of starting to dose and goes away with in a couple days after stopping. theory is the flock is affecting the gills but no one has done absolute testing so its just a theory. also reports of ill effects on certain types of SPS. now these seem to be in tanks that were dosed directly so that might have something to do with it also. Quote:
Quote:
I think the best way I have seen it used to to have a separate filter tank set up where the stuff is dripped in and there is a cotton fiber filter that the water has to go through to get back to the main system. mind you people who do it this way are changing the cotton filter out every day or two for the first while. Steve |
The way I understand the chemical reaction is that the Lanthium chloride combines with both calcium and phosphate to make a new compound that precipitates out and is supposed to be non dissolving after that. So the reaction depletes both calcium and phosphate
Mind you, I have never used it so cannot talk from experience. |
Quote:
I am looking at this as an addition for cooking old live rock, but I don't know if it will draw phosphates out of the rock as every who has played with it says there phosphates start rising again when they stop dosing. Steve |
Hi Steve,
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.beananimal.com/articles/l...and-tangs.aspx Some things I noticed about the article. 1. A small tank of 75 gallons. 2. Most likely using the highly concentrated pool version as they dosed 1ml/day. 2. Only the Scopas Tang was affected 3. It looked like it had been in a fight with another tang and then developed a secondary bacterial infection. 4. After massive water change the fish begins to improve. 5. Lanthanum dosing stopped. My questions are? Was it the massive water change that helped the fish get better or was it the discontinuing Lanthanum dosing? Did the whole episode have anything to do with Lanthanum at all? The author makes it quite clear that it is anecdotal info. There are a lot of public aquariums that rely on Lanthanum to control phosphate in their displays. Some use sand filters to remove flocks but I doubt it catches all of them or any non reacted Lanthanum. As for the SPS I have some fairly sensitive species such as Echinata and they are fine. I will be doing pics today so can take one of the Echinata. Quote:
Here is the article that talks about the precipitation and SPS issues. http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/cont...ling-phosphate It must be noted that Daniel removed 1.3mg/l in a couple of days. Here is the quote from the article "They were adapted to a phosphate concentration of 1.6 mg/l, and in consequence grew slowly, and it seems that when this concentration dropped to 0.3 mg/l within a few days as a result of the drastic treatment, the complex physiological processes that take place in these corals were thrown out of balance." From both of these old articles one can deduce that: 1. Lanthanum may or may not affect old Scopas Tangs. 2. Don't use too much too fast as you will shock corals and may cause precipitates to form. The ideal best practice may be to dose the Lanthanum in a separate tank and trickle the water through it as you suggested. Next best would to slowly add diluted Foz Down into a 5-10 micron sock and have a small pump pumping water from sump through it. At the end of things we may or may not find that the precautions were necessary. It is up to the hobbyist how they want to operate their reef tanks. It has been over 6 years since people have started using Lanthanum in their tanks. If there was an issue one would think it would be all over the internet. Just my Timbits. ;-) Cheers, Tim |
Quote:
|
Quote:
6 years now... hmmm I've been under my rock far to long LOL Have you ever stopped dosing ? and if so did your phosphates start creeping back up? I am looking at this for the purpose of cooking/curing a bunch of rock I have. I am going to basically do the real cooking, where you put it in total darkness with a heater, water flow and skimmer and frequent water changes go get the bug and bacterial life going but kill off any algae's and clean out the pours of the rock. My interest is will Lanthanum provide a permanent phosphate removal or will it have to be used long term? Also from what I have been reading its effectiveness is reduced the lower the Phosphate levels and they seam to be recommending it in conjunction with other phosphate removers. Is this your experience also? Thanks Steve |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 02:08 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.