Selling Corals for Profit $$$
 

Just noticing some recent for sale threads by user/s on Canreef...

For starters. Everyone has the right to do what they choose with their money, either buy from these sellers, or do the same as these sellers (if you can afford it) and buy direct from sites or businesses most likely at discounts. When you buy scolys, brains, or frags of anything for the purpose of selling for profit and have no intention on keeping them or enjoying them strictly to line your own pockets and sell at retail prices competing with legitimate retailers, just doesn't seem right. If I was in the business (which I'm not) I may be a little annoyed (which I kind of am I guess)

If you...
-Don't have a business license
-Don't pay tax (except when you purchase)
-Don't pay sponsorship fees
-etc

Not saying you need to! But... The CRA may not look to kindly at this venture

Buying frags and growing them out in your home aquarium and the fragging them for trade or sell is a GREAT thing! Doing so is encouraged IMO and totally reef safe. Maybe you make money doing so, helping pay for this expensive hobby? Thats a great way to keep costs down and the wife/parents/kids happy. All for it!

And I do think it's a fine line, if someone pays top dollar for something no one else has, say 5 rare zoa polyps, keeps one and sells or trades 4 of them for profit, that can be totally fine (even though its kinda the same thing). But when you're doing it in bulk and when you buy the single pieces and sell the single pieces knowing full well you didn't want it to begin with and saw potential in making money, then, well, couch cough. You're competing with legitimate business and contributing nothing to our economy like the hard working businesses out there

Just know that some people, doubt it's just me, feel the same way.

I think people have the right to do as they please. If someone gets something for a good deal, and sees the value of it and wants to make some money how is that wrong at all??? If the stores wonna compete maybe they should lower the prices a little bit. I'm all for buying coral to make profit. Gotta pay for this expensive hobby somehow. And I find it irritating you would go out of your way to write such a long post just to complain about what other people do with the stuff they buy. Especially for your first post here.

I am 100% fine with if some one gets a good deal and sees the value in the piece sells it and makes a buck. if some one at a store sees this as unfare that some one might buy something frag it and re sell it stores should raise prices


Now if your bringing corals in from a wholesaler in indonesia or aussi then absolutely you should be paying taxes or having a business licence can't think I know of any one i know doing that tho

Here's the deal with this. The selling of frags on the site is approved ONLY for frags you've raised and trimmed to make room in your tank. You own the colony and trim it, or you are parting with something no longer wanted.

Any poster that is verified, or close enough for my satisfaction, as selling any items for the sole intent of profit from resale, will be removed.

I'm also really annoyed at members making fake accounts to post an opinion. If you have one, post it. Don't hide. I'm reviewing and will possibly ban all IPs related to this fake ID.

Good call brad

I agree in some points to everyones responses. I personally wouldn't buy something from a fellow canreefer and sell it for a better price as that is just rude. What I have done in the past is buy a large colony from someone and the colony was to large to fit where i want it to go. So what I did was get a hold of the person who sold it to me and i asked them if he wouldn't mind if i fragged it and sold some pieces and asking him what price he thought was fair and we came to a conclusion on the price. I then saved him a piece for his new tank as well. I also usually only go to the stores that i think have fair prices, there is many stores I go to which i find way over priced.

In response to brad I agree with him completely on the selling your own frags and trimming. I actually didn't wasn't aware of this rule until now and I'm glad it was brought to my attention. On the other hand i feel if someone makes a bad purchase that they shouldn't have they should be allowed to sell it.( We have all made bad purchases that we wish we could take back.

This is just my 2 cents.

I agree with you there. I also would not buy something from somebody off here and sell it for more. But if i go to a store and see something i want and i know its worrh money i will keep a piece for myself and sell the rest to try and recover my costs. I dont see anything wrong with that.

Yup Me neither

It surprises me that someone can feel as strong as the OP does about something yet still want to hide their ID There are always some "strong" personalities on these types of boards but overall Canreef is one of the most laid back groups I've ever encountered. I can't see everyone harassing the OP over their opinion so they should have done it under their real ID. Just my 2 cents.
As for the content of the post, well I agree that "flipping" isn't probably the best practice. There are always extenuating circumstances that could come into play but it's better to grow and frag your own stuff.

Buying something and selling half, or selling something you find you regret buying is fine. It's the bulk buying/growing for profit that isn't allowed. We let a lot of grey areas slide, but people that have a 20g tank, and a 200g frag system in the basement are considered commercial.
We strive to maintain the spirit of hobbyist sharing and supplementing some of the costs of the hobby, but if you're pulling in $800/mo regularly, you're a business!

800$ A MONTH? Thats crazy I only wish. The most I've made a month from selling frags was maybe 10$ :P

Well, if I can't sell more of these excess orange digi weeds:mrgreen: in my tank, am going to have to start giving them away... Profit, shmofit... Wanna see my hydro bill?

The point is, if you have a large tank, and corals are breaking through the glass, you're going to have a lot to sell. It's the chopshop guys we're asking to sell elsewhere :)

the point is it's easy enough to hide your real IP address if you need to. tskitty tsk tsk :lol:

Nobody ever does :)

But there are other ways. I've identified this person by something other than IP.

i told you it wasnt me i swear:mrgreen:

i think its all fine when your talking about a 10" favia at the lfs and someone wants to sell it in 15 pieces at $30 each just to make a quick buck , yes thats shady.

to be honest i dont even have a display tank , when mine crashed i found all my enjoyment in my grow/frag systems . i grow each and every polyp myself...one by one except for the first one(im not god) i dont even like fish and corals is where its at for me lol

i actually found a new enjoyment in the hobby and it steps away from a traditional display tank. i like collector/designer zoanthids its the drive to find them , bring them in and selectively propagate them that i enjoy, simply put i love zoanthids. old ones fund new ones and the types of zoas i want and bring in are not found at any lfs locally or wild order from indo.

problem is i cant buy them in colonie size and if i could it would cost $$$$$$ , most of the polyps i buy now adays have a price tag of $50-$400 per polyp and for alot of them im lucky if the seller will part with more than one lol

so at $150 for one polyp you can better believe when it hits 4-6 polyps that sucker is getting fragged and im getting some money back before i lose the piece.

im responsible for bringing in alot of the designer zoas that are even available in canada.....someones got to be that guy right lol so i take the risk, pay the price , play the patience game and sell a polyp , and then move on to my next fix lol



and because everyone likes pictures :P

fresh new arrivals that i had to beg to even be able to buy, came from the states so the money may not be local but a lfs somewhere got paid lol


http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/...ps293fb215.jpg

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/...ps904686bd.jpg

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/...psfca2866d.jpg

please dont pm me asking for retailers in the states for zoanthids lol

PM'ed

You are so bad Brad

And he did too lol

I've noticed it lately too, where there seems to be a number of posts by a small amount of members selling many frags/corals - and the members appear to have small/new tanks, therefore I can only assume they are flipping corals

So I understand where the OP is coming from

Just my $0.05

Ive had someone buy multiple frags off me just to resell .Because I was selling them at a reasonable price the reseller could jack up the price then resell at a big $profit. it ticked me off , I was trying to spread the wealth as it was and it was and it was a bunch of zoas I had grown from a few polyps to a huge colony and had to frag because I was moving . It robs other people from enjoying this hobby at a reasonable price and that's wrong .

Reporting these things to me has surprisingly good and quick results :) Just sayin'

Profit means you make more money then you spend. It's impossible to profit as a hobbiest in this hobby. Period

i don't see the problem with it i just wouldnt buy it hehehe.

only thing that bothers me is when a nice shipment comes in and one person with a big wallet buys all the nice ones in seconds. share the beauty :)

but that doesn't even bother me im just jelouse because im not a fast buyer i like to do research before i get something

The member I would have pointed out to you seems to have magically vanished
I can't find them no matter how hard I search through the members list

I both agree and disagree with this. I have gone to concept many times looking for something that they post pictures of the day before and its already gone because thats just how it works the nicest pieces are going to go the fastest. But this past week i definitely didnt waste my time as soon as i saw they got an order i didn't want my favourite gold torch to be gone before i got there, so I was so desperate i got my neighbour to take me Lol. So I was that guy that took the nice pieces.( very hesitant because i would have no more money until june 20th so I bought them. Im glad I did because who knows when ill be able to find a Red and Blue clam again. I do bit myself in the but though sometimes for not doing research so i completely agree with you on that part. :D:mrgreen::biggrin::lol:

I hope that didn't sound rude because it definitely wasn't meant to be

It isn't any different than certain local stores around here buying frags off people off the forum cheap and selling them in store for 10x what the paid. Iv seen this happen several times.

Interesting thread.

Personally I will agree with those that think if you are buying and selling for the purpose of profit you are not hobbyist but a business.

I also find this thread interesting for the fact that I just sold all my coral. It was a long process (we are talking thousands of dollars). I had an unbelievable amount of corals for a hobbyist but I never once purchased a frag or colony for the sole purpose of profit. The large majority of my corals were purchased as frags and grown out. This takes the kind of time, resources and care that most businesses cant spare to waste. As a hobbyist though this is the best way to get your money back out of the hobby. I by far did the best on the small rare and/or beautiful (most times aquarium cultured) frags I would buy. In a few years (more or less) they are grown out and you can usually frag them many times to make back investments in the hobby. Of course this takes skill and patience. Much better than the few wild LPS colonies I would buy that do not grow. Nice corals are expensive and even though Jay (reefraft) would seem to give me decent prices (comparitively) if the coral wouldnt grow it would be a money loser in the end for sure. Another thing with selling grown out corals is you are not pushing chop shop corals which have a poorer track record.

Anyway you would'nt believe the growth you can get on some of these corals (certain SPS especially). The growth is nealy exponetial as they grow. So with a large system stuffed to the brink with mature corals I personally was not up to the task of selling all the frags. Thankfully Tony and Long wanted to make a business out of it. They are good guys and we both did well with our partnership. I wholesaled out my frags (till they were ready to buy the mother colonies). Less work for me and these young buck entrepreneurs can make a buck too. They are a registered tax paying business (and sponsor of canreef) as well cause Im sure some eye brows would have been raised had I tried to sell all my wares in the classifieds.

Currently coral free
D.V.

I don't think so. They're yours, you grew them from babies and were shutting down. I would see no problem with that. Likely easier to do what you did, as selling single frags to empty a tank would take some effort!

Well Im happy either way cause it was way to much work and in the end it was far from full tank to single frags even (like I said a crazy amount of coral). We dwiddled them down some but MJC still got the mother colonies. Hopefully they can keep them nice and growing.

Yup, it's a lot of work. I have a wait list for all my frags, as I can't sell the bases.
And, I have to dip and inspect under the scope each frag for each buyer. Not looking forward to it :)

Agree.

This thread almost put me to sleep. Who cares. If you sell to somebody and they resell, it's theirs to sell. Stop complaining you never asked enough.

That's life. You could ask more.

I get tired if jacked retail prices and will gladly buy from a closet shop if he has good pieces. Even if he makes a profit.

If you frag your $25 sps ten times... You just made profit.

So everybody who frags makes "profit"

If you don't like the price. Don't buy. Somebody else will.

Well thats not true at all. Profit comes at the end of all expenses. If your selling frags of corals you spent years growing (ie. your a hobbyist), profit is pretty imaginary. Not only do you have ongoing costs of running a system (ie. electical, salt, GFO, carbon, RO filters etc) you have your captiol expense of equipment. And lets not even mention your time. Cause if you are keeping track of profit your time should be considered an expense.

I totally wish I could see every dollar I spent and made in this hobby. If anyone "hobbyist" could come close to breaking even or "profiting" it would be someone like me with a large system and a dizzying amount of coral. Even so I think I would be short. Especially considering my large successful tank came after 2 other failures (previous tanks).

bad grammar or digital lisp?

Can't tell you. You'll abuse the knowledge. :razz:

yeah im pretty sure my montly expense on corals exceeds what i bring back in frags ten times over alot of the times , there is profit for some things but overall theres more going in then coming back out, its not so much the needing to make a buck but the not having to spend my whole paycheck time and time again to buy corals, sure cheaper corals would help but my taste is my worst enemy lol

last month i am into corals for almost $3,000 ive probably sold $200 worth of frags lol i think most months is like this and i tell myself im sure ill break even as time goes by but i dont i just keep hoarding more coral lol im not perfect so i do lose corals from time to time and sometimes its a big hit.

if it werent for the many morphs out there i probably would have stoppped long ago but theres still a ton i want and cant really afford in the grand scheme of things so fragging what i do have helps compensate for those costs.

i do try to grow all polyps that get fragged but its not always possible so i try to get some back while i can, after so long of doing this thoughi endd up with such a large amount of frags that te need to chop stuff right away dissapeared and i think this is where new people are , theres only a few types in the tank so one is left to frag what they have and more often than not to justify buying a favia at $150 they will say well maybe ill cut half and sell it and keep the other half.

in my last three orders from sponsors here on canreef i havent been charged taxes , receipts and these are household businesses, nothing wrong with that and its not a new thing but the times are a changing and people learn the ropes as they mature in their journey:)

darryl i agree with the aquacultured vs wild statement , seems results are much better for the stuff thats going around and raised in aquariums , i rarely buy wild fresh off the boat unless its mind blowing , i muts have bought a dozen wild darth maul colonies overe the years just to have them mely yet my one polyp aquacultured frag has grown and lasted a long time.

Out of probably half a dozen LFS I visit in the area only one charges tax. I can only assume that the rest are paying taxes that are built into the cost. I also assume that there are some questionable tax procedures for these businesses (that happens in all sectors) and even more so if its a home business. Ie. everyone loves a write off but no one likes to pay taxes.

I remember those times. Its a lot of money and I always told my self and others that you have to be prepared to loss it all. Its a risk, addiction, maybe similar to gambling? haha

I'm a recovered coralaholic so please to make me relapse. haha

lol yeah i cant get away from it its addictive and right now its the most fun ive had in the hobby in all the years ive done it ,the collecting..hoarding and hell im even sentimental on some pieces lol i read on RC you were shutting down and i said to myself , he will be back...and you will ;P