When Coral Coloration Matters; Fauna Marin Balling Light
 

Old Balling method, Balling Light method and 2 Part,

How are they similar?

Quite simply all three of these systems work on similar basic principals. Approximately equal parts by mass of calcium and alkalinity are added and each system doses to achieve ionic balance.

How do they differ?

This is where things get a bit more complicated but we will try and make it easier to understand.

Old Balling Method.
Calcium and alkalinity are added in equal proportions by mass.

Na-Cl free salt is also added in proportion to the amount of Ca and alk added.
This NaCl free salt also contains Magnesium chloride, magnesium sulphate and trace elements.

Calcium, alkalinity and NaCl free salt must be added in the same proportions.

Na-CL free salt combines with the Na and CL from the Ca and alk already added to form salt water and your salinity increases. This salinity increase would be similar in effect to using SW to top up your tank as opposed to FW. The effects are not large, but over time would be considerable and must be addressed.
To combat the salinity fluctuations, SW is removed and replaced with FW in an effective water change.
Additional magnesium supplements may be required to compensate for the consumption of magnesium by the corals.

Newer Balling Light Method
Calcium and alkalinity are added in approx equal proportions by mass but to meet the exact demands of your tank.

Magnesium solution dosed to help maintain ionic balance and to replace the magnesium consumed by the corals.

Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium can be added in varying proportions in order to meet the requirements of your specific reef system.

High purity Ca, Alk, and MG chemicals are used to ensure unwanted trace elements can't enter your reef system.

Trace elements are added to the solutions and dosed in proportion required.

Overly complicated NaCl free salts are omitted.

10% weekly water changes are recommended for heavily stocked sps system with extreme dosing. But really, you should already be doing a 10% weekly WC on a sps system….

2 Part Method
Although the name 2 part would lead you to believe it is only 2 parts (calcium and alkalinity), revisions from its original formula have included the introduction of magnesium. There are now several revisions and recipes for 2 part that include different ratio of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate as well as different methods to prepare the alkalinity solution.

Calcium and alkalinity are added in approx equal proportions by mass but to meet the exact demands of your tank.

Magnesium solution dosed to help maintain ionic balance and to replace the magnesium consumed by the corals.

Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium can be added in varying proportions in order to meet the requirements of your specific reef system.

Lower purity Ca, Alk, and MG bulk chemicals are used and some of these impurities are thought to offset the lack of trace elements added to the Ca and Alk solution.

Overly complicated NaCl free salts are omitted.






2 Part may sound very similar to the Fauna Marin Balling Light method right about now and that’s because it is quite similar. People have referred to 2 part as a lighter version of Balling light and the primary difference between the theory behind the 2 systems revolves around the addition of the trace elements of the FM Balling Light system and the higher purity of the chemicals used by Fauna Marin in comparison to the bulk additives recommended for 2 part.

These 2 systems vary from the original Balling Method in that you can dose exactly what your tank requires according to its current consumption rate for each major element. The original older balling method requires the same proportion of ca, alk and na-cl free salts to be dosed at all times. But what happens if your tank consumes more magnesium than what comes in the prescribed salts? Now you need to dose an additional Magnesium supplement. Additional magnesium supplementation will also add more chlorides, which would in turn throw off the Na Cl balance that some claim is so critical.


Ionic Balance.
Well let’s just debunk this marketing myth right here and now.
If you are looking for a thorough read, please follow the link here:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/
This is not new info, it is from 2006 and its been known since well before then that the Balling Light method and that 2 part (with Magnesium) does not cause some catastrophic ionic imbalance. If they did, 2 part would not have grown to the most widely used dosing method in the reefing industry today. Any implications otherwise are used car salesmen fear mongering.

For those that would like to dispute that data, here is a chart from the article. This chart shows what would happen to the Ionic balance of a 50g reef system if you were to dose 41 ml / day of ca and all and the corresponding mg plus adjust salinity.

http://reefwholesale.com/gallery/mai...serialNumber=1

And should you wish to further dispute this data, please contact Randy Homes Farley directly, and good luck cause you are going to need it!



That being said, we do still recommend a 10% weekly water change.
We recommend a 10% weekly water change for just about any system in existence whether or not you are dosing, using calcium reactors, kalk reactors or just plain putting your tank on cruise control.
We firmly believe that water changes play a vital role in the long-term success of maintaining every healthy reef.




So why has Reef Wholesale been using the Fauna Marin Balling Light system for years now??

Quite simple, COLOR!!!

Fauna Marin Balling Light is Super easy to dose.

Fauna Marin Balling Light has biopolymers added to their balling salts that really help your coral coloration POP!

Fauna Marin Balling Light lets you balance your parameters to the exact levels that you want!


Fauna Marin uses the highest purity elements plus all the essential trace elements to give you all the tools required to keep the nicest looking corals possible.

If the proof is in the pudding, these corals be pudding!

http://reefwholesale.com/gallery/mai...serialNumber=2

Team MJC Approve of this thread !!! We put that sh*t on everything :D

BALLING WARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!! :2gunfire: :snipersm: :hat:

Holy crap that looks delicious! Yum yum

I call that rice pudding!!!


-Tony

wow pat looking great not hard to see the proof speaks for its self:)

wow that looks beautiful , yeah its nice to see a company putting their products to personal use not just pushing it for sales purpose:)

keep up the good work crew!!

TESTIFY KWOOD!

Brap Brap sh*t just got realz!!! Kwood stomping the yard !!!

:laluot_14:

Wow that's an amazing tank! But isn't that the same tank that got posted up in the Tropic marine thread?

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18612

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/16/ugu2ases.jpg


-Tony

When Coral Coloration Matters; Fauna Marin Balling Light
 

I think if reef wholesale read more they would see he started on the "balling lite" offered by Fauna Marin, but switched to the full and original balling method offered by Tropic Marin to achieve the results he was looking for and told he would receive from product.

:pop2:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/17/u8y9aqad.jpg


-Tony

Mind if I share? :)

This is getting gooooooooooooooooooooood :mrgreen:

I believe Krysztof is using the NaCL free salts from Fauna Marin.
I am not sure if its the "full" balling method, I would have to look back to see if he is using the Trace B set for his balling salts. Trace B are the trace elements for the Balling method that Fauna has been perfecting over the last like 10 years that they have had it on the market.

Fauna has had the NACL free salt mixes available on the market for years and years and years now. In fact they were distributed by someone on Canreef and hailed as the best of the best at that time!

But times change.
We no longer use undergravel trickle filters.

Most people anyways no longer use counter current skimmers driven by wooden air stones (although they do actually work well as i am sure anyone that has been around for long enough can attest to).
Sure these technologies worked at the time, but we have since found better ways to enjoy our hobby.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying the Full balling Method from TMC doesnt work. I am sure it does.

But to post and say the 2 part and balling light are cut down version that will cause an ionic imbalance that will somehow cause harm is a complete pile of BS.

Fauna Has the Full Balling Method.
We have it in stock.
Including the NACL free salts.
It collects a LOT of dust though as pretty much everyone has switch to the Balling Light method. Read in the thread on the zeo forums, multiple people posted on there outlining how most people use the Balling Light method.

And TONS of people have achieved amazing results with the Bulk additives and using the 2 part method.
Bulk additives are not my preference but lots of people have good results!

If either of these system created some type of problem I am pretty sure with the thousands and thousands of people using them we would have heard about it by now.

Any of these methods are just tools in a tool box.
If you want a nice tank the biggest thing is how you use them!!!

At RW we use the Fauna Marin Balling Light system.
And we feel we have PERSONALLY achieved pretty good results with it!

Here is a pic of a pretty sweet sps in our system:

http://reefwholesale.com/gallery/mai...serialNumber=2

Hey tony,

Thanks for clearing that up as it was confusing having same thread posted for 2 different products. He does say he did noticebetter results when he was using the full balling method with NACL free salt vs the lite balling method...regardless of which salt he was using.

To me it seems more advantageous to use the balling system as designed originally. I don't want to have to and don't think you should have to play chemist with another product to make it have same results as the original. The lite version seems to miss out the whole principle of the balling system which is plain and simple to refresh the system with all the trace elements found in modern sea salt while keeping an ionic balanced state.

Hey Boob,

Feel free to post the proof to that statement.

Here is the real story, to the best of my knowledge, he still runs this system.

Would love for you to share. I'm not trying to start a debate as to what product is better. It's the method of balling that's being questioned.

Seems much simpler and less confusing to dose 3 things and get it right vs dosing more then 3 and having to try get things balanced yourself.

When Coral Coloration Matters; Fauna Marin Balling Light
 

Lol mrhasan just want some popcorn dawg!!! And can you explain what you mean by only dosing 3 things vs dosing more then 3 things?


-Tony

When Coral Coloration Matters; Fauna Marin Balling Light
 

With FM you are dosing 5 things for the balling method correct?

With TM you only have 3 because the part " c " contains all the extra goodies that come in FM extra bottles.

Yah I want popcorn. Or balling salt. Anything free works for me. :biggrin:

more!!!!!


at least this one isnt locked down:P

Amen to that! :mrgreen:

I'm tagging along as well, how do these results work in a new tank for example my tank is pretty young and I do 25% WC ever 2 weeks most sps are frags or mini colony's and most LPS are medium to big colony's I haven't (yet) had a problem maintaining mag alk or calcium and low po4 and nitrates in between WCs,

Would these systems not be used untill a semi mature tank or

Fauna Marin Balling Light is 3 parts.
Calcium
Alkalinity
Magnesium
All the extra trace elements are added into your ca/alk/mg respectively. These would be the extra "goodies" you are referring too, and they are added to the 3 salt mixes.

You just dose exactly what your tank needs according to its consumption rate.
FM is more for the avid hobbits that wants to feel the true heart beat of their tank.... and they are not interested in the people looking to keep stagnant ponds with high DOC's where there are no WC's being performed!!
Simple and easy to use

TM is 3 parts
CA
ALK
NaCl Free salt
Ca, alk and NaCL free salts all should be dose in the same proportion in order to maintain the proposed ionic balance.
BUT if your tank consumes more Magnesium you need to dose MG as well so
MG (optional/possible)
Its in the letter directly from TM, where he says you may need to dose additional MG.
And IF this is the case and IF this ionic balance is so important then what happens when you add Mg??? Now you are also adding more Cl, which means you are not in ionic balance!!
Does this really matter and will it hurt your tank?
NO, absolutely not!




Otherwise every single Kent, Seachem, FM, TM product out there would have crashed thousands of tanks by now.


With Full Balling, Balling Light, or 2 part it all boils down to the same thing.
You need to test your tank, see what your tank is consuming.

If you want to keep an lps/softies tank you can be lazy and check here and there and when you feel like it basically because your parameter consumption rates will be very low. WC's will often maintain your parameters
Honstly I could tell you the last time we checked the parameters on our LPS system and its LOADED with a lot of pricey pieces, but with our reg WC the params dont change much.

lps/sps
You need to check a bit more often, nothing to crazy hard core as your coral load isnt to extreme

Heavy sps load
now you really gotta check more often.
Hoe often really depends on the coral load and how much you are adding and taking away from the tank.
A nice mature display, once a week is probably good.
A newer display, you could have to check as often as every other day depending on how fanatical you are, how heavy you increase the load etc.
I consider myself to be a bit crazy, just slightly crazy about my sps. I hate parameters fluctuating so i probably check way more often than required....

If it aint broken, dont fix it!

If your tank is coming along nicely right now and your parameters are staying relatively in the right range then just keep doing your wc's!

Personally I think it would be better do do 12% every week as opposed to 25% biweekly.
25% bi weekly would technically be changing more water.
But coral like stability for the best growth and coloration. So for 2 weeks your parameters are dropping, dropping, dropping, then spike!

Now with a weekly wc you might need to bump it to say 15% to have the same added value of removing DOC's and other organics and replenishing elements but its pretty close to the same and would be more stable.


There is simply no replacement for water changes!
I can not state strongly enough how good water changes are both for removing everything you dont want, and replenishing every thing you do want.

If anyone has had the pleasure of meeting Anthony Calfo before he will tell you all about his tank he used to have where he did 90% weekly wc's. He would drain the tank the the bottom so the fish could barely swim, then refill with fresh sw.
No skimmer
no additives
nothing
But he will also tell you how he lived very close to the IO plant and would just drive down the street and pick up some in his pickup truck, and how crazy cheap it was for him.
So back to reality as this is not at all viable for us here!

LOL, yeah no need for that here!

We actually understand the chemistry we are talking about here.
Dont get me wrong, I am no RHF. I am def not a chemist!
But i did take more than enough chemistry in university to understand this basic reef chemistry and we have backed it up with years and years of experience.

We have actually run ALL of the methods we are talking about.
FULL Balling
Balling Light
2 Part (well technically 3 part, with the Mg)
Calcium reactors (single stage and double)
Kalk reactors
and just about every additive system and brand on the market.
Well maybe not all of em, now we can generally look at a product and we know what it is. I am sure anyone that has played around with bulk Ca will recognize the round Ca pellets used by many brands.


No webinar required either.
We sell the product we believe in.
Not "believe" in the products we sell!

Lets get this back on track with more amazing coral pics!

More pics of some of our cool mother colonies.
This piece (and the last pic i put up) are pictures from a pieces in Kevin's mother section and its pretty freakin fantastic!

http://reefwholesale.com/gallery/mai...serialNumber=2

http://reefwholesale.com/gallery/mai...serialNumber=2

Great post

OMG poison ivy!! one of the hardest sps to colour up!! anyone who keeps sps knows crazy pink and yellow colouration is hard to achieve !!

/in before locked!!!

Yea it was weird going to this tank my old 30 gallon had no skimmer no dosing and I did weekly 5gallon WC and had frags double in a months time. Since moving corals over haven't seen much growth yet mind you I'm sure they are all under the acclimation of new tank better lights skimmer and getting settled in. Some of the frags/mini colonies are just starting to encrust onto the rock which I have heard they need to encrust before they go back to growing up after i so rudely plucked them from the stable 30 gallon

Another thing i have noticed is that I'm getting less polyp extension on the sps than i did with the 30 gallon no skimmer so I'm wondering if I'm over skimming or not feeding enough "sps food" osier feast and rotifers or coral snow. Before i had to watch it due to only relaying on WC to export nutrients but now i feel like I'm not doing it enough cause its getting skimmed out or fugue using it.

Or am i just being impatient and need to wait for things to catch up. The SPS looks healthy don't get me wrong just not the insane extension i was getting in the 30, the LPS looks more colourful but I'm sure they liked the "dirtier water" of the 30

Craigdillman, best advise i can give you is to just be patient.
Its a new system, your sponge population will fill in, your bio diversity will increase and as such you will get better growth and better coloration with a bit more time.

Nothing good happens quickly in this hobby.
Be patient, watch your parameters so that they stay in the right range.
Provide good parameters and the most stability possible, add a dash of time and they will be awesome in no time.

Ok awesome thanks

PFoster,
What would be your recommendations on someone running a zeo tank that's wants to switch from TM balling original to FM balling lite?
Would you not dose the Nacl free salt? Or nether of the zeo color additives.
Thnx, Tyson.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

i was looking into this system last week, but where can one get all of the products to start it up?
currently i dose alk, cal and mag and weekly i add trace elements, there system is just more accurate correct??