Help!! Ich!!
 

I woke up this morning to find my A. nigricans (aka white cheek tang, aka powder brown tang) covered in spots. The lights had not fully come on so they looked like little brown dots but now that the lights are on the show up white. there are also a few on his fins.

The tank is 72 bow with LR and a few corals.

Also, in the tank are two percula clowns, four green chromis, and a bicolour blenny. none of them appear to have any of the spots.

Any suggestions on what my course of action should be? I'm currently setting up a hospital tank (30 gal). Should I try to treat him in the main tank? This is my first ich episode so its all new.

Jim

I really hate ich. I've battled it in my fish only tank. I tried everything to eliminate it, and finally ended up stripping the tank bare turning it into a hospital tank and going with copper treatment. If you have the hospital tank, move all the fish and use copper, it was the only thing that has worked for me. All the other treatments abated the outbreak for a while, but did not eliminate it. I ended up ditching all the rock and sand out of the tank to be sure it no longer was present. Fortunately there was no live rock there. If there had been I would have had to leave the tank fallow for a couple of months with the fish in another tank. The whole experience was a major PITA. If you don't remove all the fish from your tank for treatment, the ich will still be in the tank even if there is no obvious sign of it. You need to treat all the fish and fallow the tank to be sure it is eliminated.

I took some photos to get a second (3rd, 4th) opinion...

I never really noticed how much crap was in the water untill I took these...might have to look at upgrading my sum/finler... :rolleyes:

This one he was moving so the bits in the water don't show up as much..

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/dat...1-med.jpg?8262

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/dat...07-11.jpg?6355

This one is clearer but it is hard to see what is in the water versus on him..

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/dat...1-med.jpg?3067

Jim

Just do what the ocean does. Nothing. Do regular water changes and dump more live rock in there. Maybe get an anemone or a long tentacle plate, as when one of my tangs had ich it just rubbed it off on the anemone

I have a cleaner shrimp and a BTA but I have never heard of anemones cleaning ich

Help!! Ich!!! - Now with Pictures
 

I was looking at running the salenity low and feeding garlic rather then the copper thing.

My purple tang got ich after being in my tank for 3 months with no new fish being added...

All I did was step up my maintainence and feeding regimen. I went from feeding once a day and hanging some nori every few days to putting in nori everyday and feeding 2-3x a day. Started soaking the food in selcon and the kents garlic stuff and within days (perhaps a week) the ich fell off and I have never seen it in my tank since.

With all that feeding, I have added a couple of powerhead filters and change them out every 3 days or so. I didnt feel my skimmer was able to adequately keep up with my input of wastes...

My fish are fatter then ever too :)

Garlic. I've got some Kent Garlic Extreme, and is that ever wicked stuff !


I agree, leave the tang, work on the water quality. And use garlic.

What is in the Kent Garlic extreme? Can I use regular garlic juice?

Sure. Just use a couple drops. The Kent stuff has Vitamin C in it as well, and it is in a nice eyedropper bottle, so easy to work with. Garlic up the nori as well.

when my clowns got ich i used garlic to,just made my own by mushing a little raw garlic then adding a small amount of water leaving it over night then strained the mix and just put a small amount of the liquid on the food for a week ,no more ick and that was two months ago.

:lol: I totally agree. It is a P.I.T.A (pain in the ..). You got that right! :lol:

I have battled ich on numerous occasions. And have even bought ich infected fish such as porcupine puffer's, boxfish & filefish just to save them & treat them of this disease. But with heavy infestation of ich it’s usually to late. Time is of the essence.

I use garlic as an added boost to help the fish fight the disease. I use Garlic extreme $10 @ Big Al's & soak all their food. But garlic alone will NOT rid your tank of ich or keep your fish or new fish from being re-infected.

Only two methods of treatment to RID of the disease ich
1) Hyposalinity- which I use & recommend

2) Cooper- which I DO NOT recommend. For many reasons: It's VERY easy to overdose. Copper is very toxic and may weaken or kill the fish if not used with care. Lots of fish like the tangs are VERY sensitive to copper. Many fish like a porcupine puffer's & boxfish can NOT be treated with copper. I have also found after copper treatment that it seems to fade the fish of their natural color. I prefer a more natural treatment, Hyposalinity.

Lofus,
It definitely looks like ich. These treatments above can only be treated in your 30gal QT tank. Here are some links with a collection of good reading & understanding of the disease and treatment. Step by step. Best of luck.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=282934

In my opinion not exactly good advice.

Jim, what are your current water parameters? Specifically, what's the daytime max temp, nighttime min temp, specific gravity, pH (mix/max over a typical 24hr period), NO3, ammonia, etc.?

Last time I battled ick on a tang, it was on my recently-introduced red sea sailfin tang (almost 2 years ago). I checked the above parameters and found my SG to be 1.027... I lowered it to 1.025 as well as soaked my nori in garlic oil (from the garlic pills you can get at the grocery), and the ick was gone within a week.

I'll check my params tonight. Normal daytime high temp is around 27C. It has been a while since I tested the water. I should know better.

I figure the addition of the Quinn's blenny was enough stress to set the ich off in him.

I've been soaking his nori in garlic juice from a bottle of minced garlic. All the fish seem to have a taste for it now. Next thing you know they will be wanting a chianti with it....

I have been following forums here and on RC for quite some time now, although I am not even close to being a reef or ich (I hate even saying that word) expert, I have had some dealings with ich in my reef tank. I have tried Hypo and copper in my QT and have had sucess with both, BUT, this has not stopped tich from reoccurring. The best success I have had in dealing with this problem has been by simply adding a bottle of stress coat (following the proper dosage instructions) or slime coating to the tank EVERYTIME I added a new fish. I have found that this helps the fish adjust or become immune to ich (or something). Ever since I started doing this (about 10 months ago) I have not had an outbreak since.

This is just my $.02, and my experience, might be worth a shot. Its a better option than removeing all of the fish for 6-8 weeks for hypo and copper.

Thanks
TaTtOo

I getting mixed signals...to the QT or in the Main tank?

it is definately ich. the spots are out on him now.

If you use copper or hypo it has to be in QT or else the inverts/corals will likely die. The stress coat or garlic you can do in the main tank.

I would never use copper and I don't use a QT. Just give the infected fish a better, stress-free environment to live in and it will cure itself. Ich is always there, it just shows up when the fishes immune system is low.

There is no way to avoid getting mixed signals with this and many other topics in the marine world, everyone has their own opinion based on their experience. Take it all in and do what feels right to you.

I have had my 1st ever ick outbreak recently/. never had it in a SW tank (Had it once in a FW tank with some fish i had shipped froma friend in New Jersey (Discus fish) box got lost and water was cold took me a long time to acclaimate and they all got ick.

My Hippo tang (who I got from mike noll) got ich a couple weeks after i got him, no one else got it I crushed some fresh garlic and rubbed it on some nori and feed that for a week. All seems fine (knock on wood)

Feeding Garlic soaked nori for four days now...can't really say if he is any better but at the very least he is not dead yet... :rolleyes:

What other steps have you taken for stress control (water change, temp, possible tank mates, caves available etc). :mrgreen:

Well The temp is controlled by airconditioning in the house so no big fluctuations. Have done water changes to improve quality as well as feeding more regularly. Skimmer is going nuts now.

Ich is still there on him but he looks healthy enough otherwise.

Wow, ich is always there? You don't use a QT? Wow, you gotta lot of reading to do. Knowledge is power! Ich is a parasite with a complex life cycle and it is not always present. Here yeah go....

Quarantine Methodology, part one
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com....odology_1.html

Ich & its life cycle
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

Other posts
http://reefcentral.com/forums/search...der=descending

How long have you been in the hobby bw?

Have you ever had ich?

How about successfully cured it?

Ich is not always in your tank. Countless animals have been lost due to this negligence. A few well-planned steps of prevention by QT can save a great deal of money and, more importantly, animal’s lives. Just giving you my 2cents since I had to learn the hard way.

Yes I have on numerous occasions - I keep tangs and move tanks and have created stress for them many times. Last one was the 108g (skimmer pump was leaking 25v - skimmer was in-tank not in-sump) Everyone was covered. They are still here and I think the locals will vouch for that.


I'm sure I am not alone here with the non-stress about ick ??

I hope you meant to say no stress. Not "have created stress". :lol: :lol:


I don't disagree with you more that a stress FREE environment is very important especially when dealing with Cryptocaryon irritans/Marine Ich. But a stress FREE environment is not going to solve Lofus problem, nor will it rid their tank of ich, resulting in the demise of the fish under heavy infestations.

I UNINTENTIONALLY created stress for them. And if Lofus eliminates stressors I believe all will be fine. IME.

:eek: OMG! I'd hate to be your fish!

Well nite nite stressor!

Good luck Lofus!

My originals are still here after five years...so don't be too quick to judge.

My fish are pretty happy with their Euroreefs and waterchanges and massive feedings. :rolleyes:

You're not alone....... :wink:

Providing a stress-free environment should be the first step in keeping ANY marine organism.
You can quarantine and treat all you like, but if the fish' immune system is going to be compromised by being kept in an inadequate set-up, it will shorten it's life one way or another.

In the early stages of ich infestation, I believe that it can be overcome with a simple reduction of stress factors.
If the infestation is too great, then it will probably have to be moved to a hospital tank, with hypo, IMO.

Over the years, I've seen ich in my tanks a few times, have only had to "hospital tank" one fish, and have never lost one due to ich.

Mitch

If I ever died and came back as an aquarium fish, I would want to be in EmB's tank. I have seen her stop at nothing to provide the absolute best environment she can for all her charges. Her fish have been with her for years and years, and anytime she has inadvertently caused stress to her fish, she has done anythig andeverything to corect the mishap.
She also gives great advice when it comes to treating fish. I agree whole-heartedly....clean up the water, and feed garlic. None of tis stupid hyposalinity and copper crap, just clean water and an immune system boost. I have used this method the one time I had a huge ich outbreak 2 years ago, and have not seen it since.
If you don't like the garlic trick, don't use t. But it does work, we'll continue to post this advice here, and it would be appreciated if you refrained from insulting other members. If you have adive to give, step up the box, politely say your bit, and step down.

I've got to go with EmilyB and Carpentersreef on this one, mainly because they're the high priests of my order, so to speak. Any success I've had in this hobby so far has come from listening to them and experienced hobbiests like them, and reading up on the variables and diseases that may confront me.

I don't see why this thread should have gotten snippy at all.

<edit - I see Brad has addressed this.>

If you only knew the amount of reading and research I have done!

Here's one of the brainstorms from one of the articles you provided:
An aquarium without fish won't have ich? Who knew?

I believe people all too often look at fish care too clinically, you have to remember, they are people too. I have a cold right now. I don't have it because I was introduced to a new environment that contained the flu virus. I caught this through trying to maintain a nightowl lifestyle while getting up for work extremely early (IMO). I let my immune system weaken, my defenses went down and voila! summer cold.

Bullet, I always appreciate advice, that's why I'm here, but don't TELL me I'm wrong, SUGGEST you know an alternative. Take a look at the tone of the other regular posters and you'll see how we can all disagree politely,

Cpt Constraint

And no, I don't use a QT. I believe they cause unnecessary stress.

Update...a lot of controversy here.

The Ich appears to me mostly gone with the garlic and water changes having done the trick. I am thinking of upgrading my skimmer now as the added feedings are causing a diatom bloom. (or perhaps I just need a reason to play with the gear! :biggrin: )

Until a few weeks ago I can say with certainty that there was no Ich in the tank. Every fish with the exception of the last addition has been QT'd for at least 4 weeks to break the cycle.

I got impatitent with the blenny I recently added and he went in the main tank after only two weeks. Now I know better. I've been at this hobby for about a year and a half now and this is my first ich case.

None of the other fish are showing any signs.

Thanks for help Em, Carp, Riff, AJ, etc..

I never disagreed. I totally agree that water quality, temp, stress reduction and preventive measures, etc, all play important roles and are extremely important.

I practice this in my own experiences with housing boxfish that have the ability to release ostracitoxin, a poison that can kill ALL tank inhabitants (a total tank melt down) when stressed. Many hobbyist stay clear of this fish for that reason alone. Hence why my boxfish is named “Bullets” (user name). :lol: :lol: For this reason I must emphasize the importance of creating a stress-free environment to successfully house these fish. But it didn’t stop ich from entering my tank after I didn’t QT the new addition, which seemed free of disease at the time. Guess I had to learn the hard way, as I know others here have too. * hugs *

So, I must say again I never disputed or disagreed about the importance of maintaining a stress-free environment. But what I do disagree with, IMO & my own experience is that ich is not always present, and creating a stress-free environment, hoping that the fish gains immunity or partial immunity alone, to the fast reproducing parasite, is a BIG risk and is not a cure. The risk could result in the demise of the fish that is heavily infected. If you have an infected tank that has not been treated, any new fish added in the future may become infected. Yikes!

I think we can pretty much all agree that prevention is preferable to treatment for any disease. IMO, I do believe that the practice of quarantining is often overlooked but is a crucial step toward prevention. So IMO, I would suggest quarantine, the use of no nets to capture and a natural method of treatment, garlic soaked foods and hyposalinity to eliminate ich. IMO, I will choose the cure anyday over juggling the dice, taking that big risk and hoping the fish will fight the disease themselves. Not to mention the stress one goes through & loss of sleep you experience if you see another white dot on your fishy friend. Or how about the emotional break down you go through after you lose your favorite friend. :frown:

Please note, it was never my intention to insult any members. My apologies if you feel that was the case. I feel that regardless of how long you have been in this hobby there is always something new to learn & discover. We all rely on one another, as well as other sources of information, to help us care for our marine friends. I think it is safe to say that all of us have a genuine passion & appreciation for our marine friends. We all want to see them in good health or we would not be here, sharing our own personal experiences and opinions to help one another.

Bulletsworld has stepped up to the speaker, politely said my bit and has now stepped down.

Good nite everyone & fishies! Sweet dreams!

Best of luck Lofus!

Finally had to read this thread to see what folks have been saying about ich treatment as I have battled it on and off over the past several months and am about to begin stocking my upgraded tanks.....

Ich will drop off a fish in a week whether or not you do anything to your tank. The on-the-fish stage of ich lasts only about a week. The rest of the time, the ich is going through the rest of its life cycle, and will reinfest fish once they get to the on-the-fish stage again in 2-4 weeks if fish are left in the ich tank.

Also, if one fish has ten ich spots, those few ich spots will multiply like crazy while in the not-on-the-fish part of their life cycle. When they become apparent on the fish again, there will be bazillions more that what you started out with, reinfesting the original fish and any other fish in the tank. For example, if a fish gets ich in the ocean, the fish will likely not die of ich because its range will be great enough to be able to avoid fatal reinfestion. In the closed and relatively small systems we run in our homes, there is no place for fish to go to not be reinfested.

As some people have pointed out, the use of LOTS of garlic soaked food has some positive effect on keeping the new on-the-fish ich off the fish. While I am not sure exactly why that works, my guess is that the garlic makes the fish reek of garlic and the ich will not attach to the stinky fish. I have used the garlic method with success and with failure as well.

From the reading I have done, mostly the links Leeanne has posted, it is best to remove all fish from the ich tank to a hospital tank. Treat for 6 weeks, while keeping the ich tank fallow for six weeks. If there are no fish in the ich tank when the on-the-fish stage of ich develops, the ich will simply die due to lack of hosts. Once the ich fish have been successfully treated, which, in some cases may take longer than 6 weeks if treatment proceedures have not been followed properly, there should not be a recurrence of ich in the used-to-be ich tank. That only holds true, however, if ich is not reintroduced in the tank at some point.

Also from what I read, stress in and of itself will not cause ich if ich is not present in the tank. Some people say their fish have developed ich after a long period of time in their tanks, yet no new fish have been added. Well, ime, something MUST have been added to the tank to introduce the ich. It could be some rock, LS, a coral or frag, or ANYTHING ELSE that came from a tank where ich was present but may not have been noticed.

All that said, I will be setting up my 20g as a Qtank for any new fish I plan for my upgraded tanks. Choice of treatment will by hyposalinity should ich be a problem. If my fish develp velvet, I will use copper to treat as hyposalinity does not have any effect on velvet.

I was really only offering my experiences in a "for what it's worth" perspective, nothing more. There was a little bit of ick on a fish, I found something that I suspected was a stressor, I thus removed that stressor and things seemed to improve. The spots did not come back. Take it for what it's worth, an idle comment from the peanut gallery.


I suppose that's one guess... I would have guessed something along the lines of garlic being an antioxidant, perhaps some kind of immuno-booster (if there is such a thing), or perhaps even as simple as "garlic'ed food smells better" and a fish that eats "more" as opposed to eats "less" stands a better chance of getting its strength up and fighting off nasties on its own. But those are just my guesses. :razz:

But, I would guess that for a really bad ick outbreak, feeding garlic laced food is a bit optimistic, all by itself.