Scott did you ever try/consider cutting out the refugium to free up some extra volume in that lower sump?

I like this idea.

It's not backflow through the pumps, its the actual water volume from the display tank that is above the weir teeth draining into the sumps.When the top sump return pump is running, it raises the level in the main tank by ~1", the lower pump replenishes the top sump and makes up for any discrepancies in water height (usually due to evaporation). I already have a GF wye on the lower sump pump, so nothing drains back through it.

By my calculations that would only gain me 1.24g of volume.

Your refugium appears to be much bigger than that.

Yes but a refugium by nature is already filled with water. So say I cut out the refugium baffle, making the pump chamber that much larger. All I will gain for volume is about an extra 2" in height over a 14" x 12" (minus the emergency overflow 5" x 5"). My calculations come to 1.24g of water. Say I can lower the water another couple inches max!, I'd only gain another 2.6g and would likely start drawing in air vortices and blowing microbubbles everywhere. Does my math make sense to you guys or are you thinking of something I am not?

I still think my only option is a new sump.

Ok, so if it's not the back flow, then the only recommendations is a bigger sump. The bigger the better. :-)

I had to go with a 180 gallon sumo and only run 8 inches of water in it, tank is 30 feet away 2 inch drain lines 30 feet long can hold a pile of water, plus the inch or so in the tank.

Could u consider changing the height of water in the tank using your drains, I can adjust mine so water is touching the euro race or take it to water just above the overflow slits.

You can't be running that sump with the water level only 2" below the overflow? What's the water level height is that sump currently running at?

Isn't your refugium filled up all the way right now? Is it next to the return chamber? Is the return chamber normally filled only partway during normal operation? If these are all "yes", then you can switch up the baffling so the refugium is part of the return chamber and is only filled partway. You should be able to get more volume then.

I can't remember what your sump looks like, and no pic on first page or this page, so I gave up looking. :lol:

Maybe this will help :)

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...xP3Qn2C-XL.jpg

I thought about that when I first plumbed it but the extra water volume is produced by the sheer volume of water the pump itself is moving into the tank. I can raise the plumbing as much as I want but the pump will still create an inch of water over that height. That inch of water will then make it's way through the system into the bottom sump.

You could add an 90 degree elbow fitting to your return pump with the opening pointed down to allow a lower water level if so desired. I had to do that with a return pump to avoid it sucking air.

Yes, the pic helps! I think you made your sump too short in comparison to the height of the equipment.

I have this on most of my pumps so they can have lower water level.

I would try with some long radius 90's but not the typical 90 elbow. The owners manual for these pumps has a big red X on a pump with a 90 on the intake side. Abyzz doesn't sell the 90 for the intake side like red dragon does. They obviously must not want it used on their pumps. The do sell a slotted 6" straight tube that fits on the intake.

I can only just get the skimmer cup out as it is. Any taller and that would be a no go.

Hmm ok. Is the slotted one only slotted on one side, so you can put the slots on the underside? that might help a bit. I'm not sure if that would give you as much space as you're looking for though.

I think you have a little more potential in that sump worth exploring, worst case you're replacing the sump anyway so why not try this first.

1. Add a snorkel to the pump, I've done this lots, usually use long radius ABS fitting.
2. Lower that running water level, I scaled out 3" which I think is easily feasible, maybe even more.
3. Cut out refugium, it'll add more volume to the pump chamber as well so it will have more catch up volume as well during start up.
4. Add a little height to your overflow chamber, ie if it's 12-3/8", can you make it 12-7/8"?

If you can do all that the added volume I calculate is this:

Refugium cut out and lower water level: (27*3+27*2)*13.5 = 1800 in3
Higher E-O-Flow: 0.5*47.5*13.5 = 320 in3

Total = 2120 or just over 9 gallons.

Rough numbers obviously and I didn't exclude the overflow box but you get the idea. I'd also still add a check valve to both return pumps, while it's not a total back-flow issue it will still cut back on a decent amount of water flowing back to the sump (16' of 1.25" Pipe will hold about a gallon).

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...lps/sump-2.jpg

Thanks Steve, but 9g is still ~2 plus gallons short of accomplishing my goals. I'd rather not spend all the time hacking up the sump, adding height to the emergency overflow, putting snorkels on the pump, etc. That results in me losing my refugium, or more appropriately my water change section. If the water level is already as low as it can be in the pump chamber then I won't be able to set up the water change programming.

Honestly I think a new sump is better than any other option.

Yeah if you got the space bigger would be better. Let me know if I can help, I'll make you an acrylic one if you want ;)

Finally got my ATO pail half way to where I'd like it.

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-gDh5H3K-L.jpg

Some new pictures :)

DV acro plus fruit loops in the background.
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-tVgLPMC-L.jpg

Unnamed awesome Monti
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-6TxRWMv-L.jpg

Mummy Eye Chalice
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-22ZQpkT-L.jpg

Unsure of name chalice
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-bKQzJCX-L.jpg

Tyree Space Invaders Pectina. Not even kidding it's this bright!
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-wCgWNBk-L.jpg

Season's Greetings Monti
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-WNSBwLh-L.jpg

Meteor Shower Cyphastrea
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-scKNHQV-L.jpg

Rasta's
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-nPftpqQ-L.jpg

Baby's Breath Favia
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-kxCbhpD-L.jpg

Watermelon Chalice
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-rjMJvkt-L.jpg

DV Crazy Chalice
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-2VjPtmk-L.jpg

SniperSPS Purple Urkle Chalice
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-9rwfTTH-L.jpg

DV Miami Hurricane Chalice
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-m9WDvZR-L.jpg

Tubb's Blues
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-r6frgw3-L.jpg

Nice Zoa carpet :)
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-BGJdNHr-L.jpg

Yellow Hammer
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-VNnsgX8-L.jpg

DV Mystic Monti
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-9QgMJhZ-L.jpg

Tahitian Blue
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-L4MG6kS-L.jpg

A DV acro
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-B3c8hZb-L.jpg

I mentioned I have weird recession on my Sunset Monti, well here it is. Any guesses as to what's causing it?
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-x7SPjNk-L.jpg

Monti setosa
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-NxXSZ9Z-L.jpg

Bonsai Acro
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-C7R8R5F-L.jpg

Captain America Paly's
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-mPCHsTw-L.jpg

Palythoa grandis
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-mXSXbL8-L.jpg

Close up on the mystic sunset monti
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-qcRPKqq-L.jpg

The monti is winning the turf war!
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-M9JjcwV-L.jpg

Some new Japanese zoo's
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-k3KP7WP-L.jpg

Halloween Hermit out for a stroll
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-3b9j2vj-L.jpg

Top shot of the clam
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-qHLtD8G-L.jpg

Green monti with clam in background
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-HPTxGp6-L.jpg

Not the most colourful until you get in real close and see the blue.
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-G2xxGjt-L.jpg

Blue Hippo Chalice
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-B5BLPRg-L.jpg

Another of the CA Paly's
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-pwJhftR-L.jpg

Another of the DV Acro
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-DpNFhVK-L.jpg

Side shot of the Bonsai
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-t4w5ZTS-L.jpg

Whole tank
http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-vG863zH-L.jpg

wow. you've got quite the ridonkulous collection! Great photos !

Thanks kein!

I see flatworms... :( Hate those buggers!

Your collection is sweet though!

Yep, I am grabbing a leopard wrasse likely tomorrow. And I will also grab a blue velvet nudi when Colby gets some in.

Wow....Im glad things are going well and your seeing some nice colour and growth.

Where are the flatworms? id like to know what they look like?

See the redish/brown square/rectangular shapes on the rock? Those are flatworms... They usually multiply faster than rabbits..

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-nPftpqQ-L.jpg

O wow i had no idea just looked like rock to me?

Thanks Dave. I am looking for some height in my tank. What types of SPS would you recommend? Thanks!

^ Stags always give nice height. A nice A exquisita is always stellar. Are you making any headway with the flatworms?

I just picked up what I think is a nice A. tenuis from Colby, but I am waiting for the cash to do a nice order from IA. I don't know if the wrasse is making a dint on the flatworms so I am going to dose Flatworm Exit before it gets too bad. I will have some water made up and just do some heavy water changes for a couple days after the treatment.

they usually wont if the tank is large and the population is high enough ,they can only eat so many at a time and they breed fast , i would do the flatworm exit and then let the wrasses finish off whats left.

I did two separate siphon jobs on the tank to lower the flatworm population prior to dosing the tank with flatworm exit. I then dosed the FWE, turned the MP40's to a strong pulse mode and it took about 20 minutes until I could see the flatworms in distress. Once they were filling up the water column I cranked on the carbon reactor and then started netting out the floating flatworms with the largest fine mesh net I had. waited until the water was mostly clear and then did a 10% water change. All in all, three full days later the tank looks great! No negative side effects whatsoever. I'd recommend flatworm exit to anyone.

This is an example for a buddy that was asking me some camera questions.

First picture with a nikon nikkor 105mm f2.8 macro lens.

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-vWcMt7D-L.jpg

Second picture with a nikon nikkor 105mm f2.8 macro PLUS nikon TC-20E III teleconverter. The teleconverter essential increases the focal length of the lens, in this case making the 105mm a 210mm lens. Drawbacks are is there is more glass between the image and the sensor, which reduces the available light.

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...-XnKZR87-L.jpg

Third option we discussed was using extension tubes. Extension tubes decrease the required distance a lens needs to focus. In the case of a fish tank, extension tubes aren't ideal since a closer focusing distance means you have to actually get closer to the subject. And unless you have a nice underwater housing for the D80 that isn't happening.

In the end the result is usually the same, a magnified image as compared to the lens alone. They just go about different ways of accomplishing it. For your needs, a good macro lens and a teleconverter would be all you need. And honestly, the teleconverter would likely be overkill. Just cropping the image would likely be enough.

Cheers!

Some new pictures :)

This is my new hammer... I am tickled blue and gold :)

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...QHqJjb2-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...ZwfMGxL-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...gd8kXDX-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...n3HxBhj-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...w2hz6VV-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...s7rP27C-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...jDGB7j5-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...5tJKdVG-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...3vKtSHC-XL.jpg

http://www.lithicimages.com/photos/i...bmkfkFz-XL.jpg