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-   -   Water changes (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=83653)

ReefOcean 03-01-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro (Post 688359)
Water changes replenish all the elements used by the system. The salt has dozens of components, and you only replace Ca and CaO3, maybe Mg. What about the rest? It's there for a reason. Reefs need strontium, potassium, etc. you don't replace those. While minimal, they're essential (they wouldn't just add it for fun). It also dilutes the DOCs (dissolved organic compounds) that affect the life in the tank.

Again, my question is why not do a water change?

Fair enough but you can dose them. People dose Calcium right? Almost everybody with SPS...

I didn't do water changes just to see what would happen to my parameters. Just like I used a crappy Chinese LED unit to see if I could grow SPS. To see for myself.

My hypothesis being, that the stringent water change practices people promote are circumstatial and hearsay. I do agree that water changes do have merrit and in most cases required at least once and a while.

You call me lazy, but stocking a system that can't support itself would be considered what?

e46er 03-01-2012 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefOcean (Post 688362)
I can't say i have ever read it, no

You should

Aquattro 03-01-2012 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefOcean (Post 688371)
You call me lazy, but stocking a system that can't support itself would be considered what?

I don't understand your question...

The best I can guess is you'd call it a closed system. Which requires keeper intervention. Fish don't feed themselves in the tank, you add food. The tank doesn't heat itself, you add heat. The tank doesn't clean itself, that's your job...

ReefOcean 03-01-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquattro (Post 688376)
I don't understand your question...

The best I can guess is you'd call it a closed system. Which requires keeper intervention. Fish don't feed themselves in the tank, you add food. The tank doesn't heat itself, you add heat. The tank doesn't clean itself, that's your job...


Keepign a system that can't sustain itself (at least substatially)and requires constant water changes due to bioload would be considered irresponsible, at least by me. I guess the different being is what you are going for, a pretty display tank with way to much livestock to show off to guests, or a more realistic enclosed bio-system ( to a degree)

ReefOcean 03-01-2012 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e46er (Post 688373)
You should


why

tim the toolman 03-01-2012 11:12 PM

Water changes are basically fish keeping 101. And as long as you are going to be considered a responsible fish keeper you should be doing water changes. I'm certain that if we drastically reduced the essentials in your day to day life (food, oxygen) you would not die but your quality of life would definitely decrease. Just because the fish in a system are not dying does not mean they are living happily.

ReefOcean 03-01-2012 11:13 PM

I should also add (without trying to force this thread in multiple directions) is that you can achieve some of those things you have described to a degree. Stocking fish that eat stuff that grows in your aquariam, living in a hot climate, having a clean up crew... are all things that can help wirth the enclosed system. Obviously, and it is a big obviously, there are still many things you need to do to maintain the tank like clean equipments, suppliment feeding here and there....

ReefOcean 03-01-2012 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim the toolman (Post 688379)
Water changes are basically fish keeping 101. And as long as you are going to be considered a responsible fish keeper you should be doing water changes. I'm certain that if we drastically reduced the essentials in your day to day life (food, oxygen) you would not die but your quality of life would definitely decrease. Just because the fish in a system are not dying does not mean they are living happily.

I find that most opinions that come out of this hobby, turn to facts very quickly. When you have 1 expert for every 5 million novices, it tends to happen virally

MarkoD 03-01-2012 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefOcean (Post 688380)
I should also add (without trying to force this thread in multiple directions) is that you can achieve some of those things you have described to a degree. Stocking fish that eat stuff that grows in your aquariam, living in a hot climate, having a clean up crew... are all things that can help wirth the enclosed system. Obviously, and it is a big obviously, there are still many things you need to do to maintain the tank like clean equipments, suppliment feeding here and there....

dont even bother. some of these people are old and stubborn and cant accept alternative methods of doing things. they believe in weekly or biweekly water changes and you cant change their mind. just give up

sphelps 03-01-2012 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefOcean (Post 688357)
Well put. I might add however, that we can know EXACLTY what our water is putting into the aquarium so logically, we can adjust for it.

Chemical/biological/mechanical filtration.

Logically yes, practically no. It's not as easy as you might think, IMO water changes will be easier and cheaper.

Like I said after the rhetorical question biological makes bio-products and chemical removes more than you might think.

If you're lazy you can make an auto water changing system pretty easy, completely automated if you have a conductivity controller. My formula is simple lazy+$=success not lazy=success.


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