I've made some posts in this thread in the past and I keep telling myself to stop looking at it, but I can't!!! I don't agree with everything on here but that doesn't make it any less interesting. So I thought I would share my families flu shot history. Myself, I had a cold 4 years ago and can't rememeber the last time I had the flu. I got the flu shot once a couple years ago and I never got sick but that's not unusual. My wife has athsma so she always gets the flu shot and is usually healthy. While pregnant with our last child she didn't get the flu shot and was sick with colds and flus for 8 months straight and refused to take any type of meds. Since then she gets the shot yearly and no more problems. Kids get the shot yearly as well and neither hardly ever gets sick despite being in school and daycare. Both of us questioned the H1N1 vaccine but after researching the more credible info we decided that for our childrens sake it was worth getting. We've all had vaccines in the past without issue and this years was no different. I relieze that this flu isn't the plague but unlike other flus healthy kids are dy ing and I won't risk my children even if the odds were 1 in a billion of dying from it. It's been a week now since the shot and so far none of us are sick or have developed any mutations or unrelated diseases and I haven't discovered any listening devices in my house. Although all the Calgary Flames got the shot so maybe it really is poison after all!:lol:

The Raptors, Leafs and Chilliwack Heat also got the H1N1 shots. I bet most sports teams have had it already.

Cheers,
Vic

I got my shot yesterday, I am am not clucking like a chicken, I am not now confined to a wheel chair, I am not paranoid that the government is now tracking me, and I am not worried about the uber tiny amount of Mercury in the vaccine!

Also;

Man did land on the moon!

Aids was not created by the U.S. military!

The world will not end in 2012!

September 11 was not orchestrated by the U. S. government!

Barcodes are not really intended to Control people!

And finally,

Kentucky Fried Chicken does not make black men impotent!

Not that I'm disputing any of that but you can't prove any of it and if you truly believe everything in the media meaning you believe this is the same person, I feel sorry for you.

http://www.freedomisforeverybody.org...ma_faces_2.jpg

I'm not saying I believe all these conspiracy theory's but sometimes we don't have all the facts and there are certainly things that do get covered up.

Yeah, I do believe some things are covered up but the majority of the conspiracies are just rediculous!

I think the picture on the left is actually Russell Peters with a beard and turbin.

Well of course they are, but I believe that's the whole point. You see the media can do the same thing but most people will believe ridiculous stories just because it's on the news or on TV. I believe the point of a lot of these theories is simply to get your attention and point out some of the obvious holes that exist which will show you that the same information can be looked at in completely different way. Then just maybe people will start to think a little more for themselves instead of believing whatever is presented to you. Of course there are the two byproducts which are the two types of people on the extreme of either side, one that only believes everything the media believes and the other that only believes crazy conspiracy theories. I believe where we should be is somewhere in the middle asking questions and trying to get as many facts as possible before making a decision.

I think it has officially gotten out of hand.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/ATT00001.jpg

Poor Piglet!!!!!

Nice!

.

OMG!!! This was a lot of reading!
 

I am more educated and feel better knowing I read this on my own accord this time. I am so sick and bloody tired of hearing about this stuff on the news and seeing it in all the papers. I am still not going to get the vaccination though. Just standing in line for hours with so many other people is a risk in itself already. I have hand sanitizer in every pocket and use it always. I don't touch anything I don't touch my face and I take immune enhancing supplements and vitamins. I feel this is the best that I can do.

There is so much hype on both sides, I am just going to sit on the fence and try not to watch or touch anything.

But if there was no line would you get it? I know a lot of family practice doctors in BC have it already (well at least my doctor and 5 friends who are doctors). They are probably only giving it to patients who are higher on the list like kids, pregnant women, & people with conditions.

Cheers,
Vic

I would not get it... I don't feel that I am a high risk individual and I do not work in the general public. I work out and train at home which is a blessing since I cannot imagine how risky the gym would be at this point. If I still worked out at the gym, or took public transport,I would definitely consider getting the vaccination or if I worked in retail or an office tower I might consider it as well.

However, even with all the input on the subject here in this topic I am still not convinced it is all that people say it is. However this is just my opinion and I am entitled to that.

What I resent is the media ramming this down my throat day in and day out... I don't frown upon people whom choose to get the vaccine, but I don't want to be judged if I choose not to do it myself. I take good care of myself and hope that the time and effort in keeping strong and healthy would pull me through.

I don't believe in conspiracy theories, I don't believe in vaccines (for myself) but I do hope everyones takin care of their kids, my 4 year old with epilepsy just spent 6 hours in the hospital with my wife cause she can't sleep, has a fever and can't breath very well... End result is she has h1n1. She's a hard 10 days comin up, not aloud to leave the house and another 2 medications on top of her already 8. My point is kids can't make the choice so put your theories aside and keep your personal feelings in check when it comes to your kids who can't think for themselves in this matter. If a person decides not to vaccine their children becuase an ex porn star and a horrible comedian told you it'll make your child autistic as apposed to now documented proof that this flu can cause death, you got some seriously disturbing issues and are not putting your children first. People need to get their head out of their asses and think... for once. Oh and... My little one did get the vaccine at childrens hospital, just too late.

Sorry to hear about your daughter, I hope she will recover quickly. :sad: I don't particularily like getting shots either but I got the vaccine for my kids safety and if they get it then I can suck it up and get it too. My oldest one is terrified of needles so it wasn't a light decision.

I don't know how things are in BC but in Alberta they all but ran out of vaccines and they allowed the Flames to jump the que and go ahead of all the high risk people and children. The gov't also paid a private clinic with public tax money to do it so nobody would know. At least one person has already been fired for it.

well it is might right to not inject my otherwise healthy children with a chemical cocktail that they in my opinion don't need. the media has spun this swine flu epidemic right out of control....everyone thinks they are going to die...you are not. the people who have their heads up their asses are the ones lining up like sheep to get a shot in the arm with a largely untested vaccine and they really don't know why....just because tv said so.

I'm sure that's very comforting to the families who have had their children die of the H1N1 flu already. Baaaa

That's not really fair, when the clinic setup for the Flames was done the gov was still in free for all mode, I don't think they realized what was going to happen. The Flames have been pretty up front about this whole thing, they felt having all the players go to a public clinic would have been a circus so they approached AHS. That's a pretty understandable thing IMO. It doesn't make sense to send somebody out to vaccinate 30 guys so they took care of as many people as they could while they were there. The Flames are no more at fault for shortages than anyone else who has already received the vaccination.

The failure here was the way AHS setup the vaccination program from the beginning. Alberta is the only province that failed to prioritize high risk groups, this seriously magnified the problems. When they did decide to setup a schedule they misprinted the age of children allowed access in the first run of the newspaper ads.

It pretty much renders the discussion we are having moot for Albertans. It goes from "will you get the shot" to "can you get the shot".

Not to mention comforting to the families who have children who attend the same school.

So in spite of the fact that flu shots have been developed in the same way for 30 years and that the adjunct in this vaccine has been used in millions of doses all over Europe for a decade this particular vaccine is "untested". Who's the sheep?

I'm sure atleast one of them read the paper that mornin, I'm sure atleast one of them knew the clinics were bein shutdown due to shortage. I woulda jumped ship for my families sake too, but I'd take the flack like a man.

I'm glad you think that rich people deserve better treatment than you. Next time your in the emergency ward in pain and waiting for 12 hours and a hockey player walks right in because he broke a finger in a fight just remember that you're OK with it because he's famous and you're not.

Really? I didn't know that. I thought everyone was prioritized.

I know that me having asthma puts me on the high risk priority list and I was supposed to be able to get my vaccine this past Monday (in SK), but due to the shortage they changed the priority list to only include children under 5 and women pregnant for 20 weeks or more. It sounds like the plan is to include more high risk people in each consecutive week.

Yeah, Alberta dropped the ball and figured that the 50 million shots that Canada ordered would just magically materialize out of thin air all at once. People aren't mad that the Flames and their famillies got the shot, it's the fact that they jumped the queue by not having to wait in 4-6 hour line ups like every other Albertan. Small kids, pregnant women, chronic illness suffers were all out there standing in the cold but healthy young atheletes are better than these people and don't have to? Calgary Stampeders, Eskimos, etc have had to wait in line if they wanted the shot, Oilers said they're waiting until those that need it get the shot first before they do.(I'll admit the last one is all for publicity)

I didn't say it was right. what I was getting at is that AHS made the mistake not the Flames.

I guess what you wrote and what you meant weren't the same thing, because to me it sounds like you approve of them getting a private doctor to vaccinate 30 players plus their families. I know people in the health care system as well but I didn't ask them to put me and my family ahead of everyone else and from what I've read none of the other sports teams have either.

Yeah I absolutely do. What do you think would have happened if those 30 players went and lined up at some random Calgary clinic? Media circus, autograph line, a huge disruption in an already messed up situation. The Flames front office knew this because they deal with it every day so they phoned AHS to see if they could avoid said circus, it being in everyone's interest to do so.

Now if you're going to send somebody out to do 30 vaccinations it's not going to take a lot more time or energy to do 100. Planning is the same, travel is the same, etc. They may as well get as much done as they can.

Both of these points are perfectly reasonable in a situation where the vaccine was available to everyone and there were no supply issues. Turns out that wasn't the case and going ahead with the clinic for the Flames was a bad idea because of it. The point I'm trying to make is that the Flames are not the guys in charge of deciding if the supply is available, that's Alberta Health Services and that's who screwed up.

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FitoPharmer,

Please give up already. These youtube videos are not credible. What are Dr. Blaylock's credentials? He is one of these "natural remedy" folks and peddles his own vitamin mixture on his website. Run a medline search on him. He has 13 publications in the database. That is not even close to the number you would see from a real full time research scientist would likely have hundreds of publications. Also, he has only published 4 papers in the last 18 years, 3 of which were in the journal of alternative therapies which is hardly a mainstream medical or scientific journal.

Similarly, Dr. Mercola is not a real medical doctor but a doctor of osteopathic medicine. Look it up. I wouldn't let him near me with a ten foot pole. He apparently also has numerous complaints of fraud leveled against him.

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

This is not real science. Not even close. It is two guys peddling snake oil. Listen to them at your own peril.

Just to add, if you think youtube is a good source of information on any subject then I feel really sad for you. Most of this kind of stuff is complete nonsense and not credible at all. Please cite some publication by credible scientists with actual data and information. If you want to link to stuff like those videos I suggest you research them a little more carefully and find out more about the people making those statements.

If you tried these types of arguments or used evidence like this in a court of law you would lose your case badly.

So first you say it's not right, now you say it is? A Flames manager contacted somebody he knew in AHS not the other way around, that is why people are getting fired because it was snuck through the AHS. Do think these guys hide in their house all day with the blinds closed or something. No other team got special treatment and had a clinic open up for just them, other players and their families had to wait in line like everyone else. Only the Flames would cause a media circus but no other team? That's just a poor excuse to justify themselves. I guess if you feel others deserve better treatment than you, then you have every right to your opinion. Most Albertans and people all across Canada are pretty upset that so few clinics are available to the public but one gets opened up to serve a single group just so they wouldn't have to stand in line in the cold like all the young children, pregnant women and cronically ill do. It's funny how these people can all stand in line but a bunch of healthy atheletes can't, that's just sad IMO. Nobody is complaining that the Flames got the vaccine or caused a shortage, it is how they got it. If people don't speak up now it will always be tolerated and the general public will continue to pay the extra costs so the rich and famous get preferential treatment. I'll admit that it really boils down to one flames manager and one or two people in AHS but it really makes both entire parties look bad.

i have asked you to do the same thing to prove its safe and you just ignore the question.

I think the Leafs, Raptors & Calgary's farm team in Abbotsford (or is it Chilliwack) had the shot.

I think there is an article on TSN website.

Cheers,
Vic

Actually, i think you might have asked somebody else. I have posted a bunch of scientifically accurate information that you can double check for yourself if you like. Since most seem to rather watch youtube I'll post some links :lol:

First start here with the actual monograph for the vaccine:

http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/Arepanrix_PIL_CAPA01v01.pdf


This has alot of information from human testing of this and the similar H5N1 vaccine. If you want to see actual clinical trial results of using this or a similar vaccine here it is. I would urge you to read it and then ask me to help you interpret any of the results you aren't clear on. The reader's digest summary is that there may be slightly higher incidence of mild side effects like pain at the injection site etc. But no more serious side effects then placebo which basically means that people suffering serious medical outcomes after being vaccinated were probably a result of other medical conditions and not the vaccine. For example, of the first 9,873 people receiving the H5N1 vaccine five people died of unrelated causes (cancer, heart attack etc. not due to the vaccine). None of the 9,873 people had any serious adverse side effects from the vaccine. For reference, 9800 people is on the high end for the numbers of people tested in drug clinical trials. It is a large statistically relevant group.

As for the ingredients here is an example:

Squalene:

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/to...nd_answers/en/

The MSDS doesn't tell much either then in purified form it is an irritant. You can see the LD50 in mice is 5g/Kg. So in human terms that would equate to having 50% fatality after being injected with something like 275 grams of squalene. The vaccine contains 10.69 mg which is more then 16,000 times less squalene.

http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Squalene-9925073

I don't have time to post others right now but if you look at my other posts you will see similar information for the toxicity of thimerosal. The other components of the adjuvant are vitamin E and polysorbate 80 which is a common food additive.

You continue to ignore the answer. Last week you asked the same thing and I responded:

You responded with:
And as a matter of fact, I have read many of the Internet acessible journal references as well the videos you have linked to. So I have looked at both sides of the argument and if you keep on responding the same way, I must assume that you have not read the scientific journals.

That's even worse than what happened in Alberta as these provinces already had priority lists set up from the start. In Alberta though the Stampeders, Eskimos and Oilers have received no special treatment. Nobody can tell me that none of the players on any of these teams didn't know that there were long waits and they were being bumped ahead of everyone. Myself, I would refuse to be bumped ahead of others, if you were in front of me in a line then you deserve to get the shot first. Our system only works if the policies are obeyed by all regardless of the size of your paycheck. This time it was only for a flu shot, there are long wait times for organ transplants as well is it okay to jump the queue in these cases as well? To what level is queue jumping acceptable? You need to understand that I'm only defending the rights of every Canadian not just a privilaged few.:smile:

It's not about you getting sick. It's about herd immunity. Getting the vaccination can save not your life but the succeptable person in the elevator beside you. We have had 6 kids die this week in peds ICU of h1n1 that were healthy and vibrant, not immunocompromised. Those deaths were preventable. Don't think about yourself and make it your prerogative to risk others lives out of ignorance of a simple very low risk immunization.
As a side note there seems to be a bit of cross
immunity for individuals born before 1955, it is less important that these individuals be vaccinated.
Sorry for the rant but this issue hits close to home for me.

This is why I got my kids and myself vaccinated. Not so much for myself but for my daughters, their friends, school mates and neices and nephews that we come in contact with daily. You don't know who is a carrier or who is especially suseptible just by looking at them and I don't really want to be the cause of someone's child dying.

Very well said. short and to the point LIKE A SHEEP !

its because we, the medical community, say so. This isn't about you, as i said, its about the 15-25% of people who will die shortly after getting H1N1, the ones that arent in the "typical toll" , could be your wife, kids, maybe you. The important thing is we dont know who, and the vaccine works. Its a live attenuated virus that forces your body to mount an immune response, simple. Before deciding if you will be one of the ignorant, lazy, uniformed *******s that put so many others at risk, please try and put this into perspective. We vaccinate to save lifes. Polio, small pox, MMR, they all function on basically the same principle and they have all worked.