See anyone else still here?

Does that matter? Do you see how fast the topics on this forum are bumped?

What would you rather drink, fresh clean water or water that has been sitting for 6 months?

Just because you can limp a tank along (and possibly do just fine for a while) without waterchanges .. the best practises approach include water changes.

Very few long term tanks exist without a water change strategy in place.

I would rather drink beer :lol:

But yes, my assertion is, that under the right circumstances and with the right preparation it is viable to limit/suspend water changes. Not everbody keeps on small clown in a 50 gallon tank or has a protein skimmer rated for a much larger tank like I do though.

my main contention is the people who just aren't willing to bend and see that there are many things you can do to make you system more enclosed and self sufficient and thus you can avoid your bi-weekly regiment of a 20 percent water changes...

hey ok you know what fine you asked for it buddy fact of the matter is your a sooky whiney know nothing, if you dont like the topic then shut up about it and dont enter the contest, in my opinion(im sure you know what that is right??) what kind of professional photographer cant go and get a simple low grade pic huh??? are you that flippin lazy ???IF IT REALLY MEANS THAT MUCH TOO YOU then lets see your pic?? huh where is it??

you come up with the stupidest of **ing threads saying youve had such and such problems for weeks asking for help and then dont accept it and just look for debate, your bridges here on this site are just about burned because of your arrogent comments, alot of us here just plain think your a joke you offer no help to others and when you actually look for help you are refusing to believe you f**ked up.....well you obviously did


the moorish idol thing.....a complete dumb thing to do....you know why???


because you have NO EXPERIENCE with these type of fish you know why it died???? because you, like every other newb who thought "hey i have a tank that grows leathers and zoas" that im experienced enough to take on fish that most actual fishkeepers of over decades cant keep....thats just dumb sorry:P


so thats how it is what are you 25??? grow up a bit the things you say and do are no different then what a 13yr old gets on with, this throwing tempers and pouting about whats not best for marko is a soap opera, are you not a man??? what kind of actual man goes around crying about every little thing thats not suited to him???


in summary your providing the proof to which of something ive always known......your a complete douche!!


anyways cheers!!


hope thats gramatically correct for ya!!:P

sorry to the op and the rest of the posters/readers with that last post but enough is enough.my apoogies to you all:):) no hi jack intended:P


for the record i do water changes weekly of 20-25g weekly on a 90g with 75g sump lps tank.


i did this thread i believe about 6 mths ago and the jist of it is.....


your fish and animals appreciate fresh water:):)

...fresh water with salt that is :lol:

How dare you post this comment about sphelps a respected member of this forum who offers freely advice to newbies like you.

You chose to get into this hobby and you have an obligation to provide the optimum environment for your fish inverts and coral you keep.

Get out of the hobby if you are too lazy to do water changes or give your fish and coral a fresh clean environment instead of a salty slough.

true true lol



either way i run a skimmer,huge refugium with a dozen different kinds of cheato, algae scrubber,gfo aggressively and still at the end of the week my tank looks like it needs a water change, the only difference i notice really is in my bigger corals my elegance which actually likes nutrient rich water gets more colourful after a water change.

my parameters before and after a water chaneg are always pretty much the same, with some small differences in cal/alk

Noob? :lol: I have been doing this for almost 8 years. I only dare because he wont put out. He wants to trivialize this thread because it goes against his doctrine. The same could be said 3 years ago about people "killing" their coral off by using LED or T5. Thise people didnt know what they were doing! how dare they use something other than MH!!!!.. Now those 2 lighting methods are completely acceptable.

I am not talking about sticking fish into toxic sludge. I am talking about controlling contaminants, limiting bioload and dosing properly to suspend water changes and only do them occasionally. There is nothing put forward to suggest that the fish are suffering since parameters are monitored and the system is regulated.....

My god. ***Rolls eyes like 5000 times.

8 years. You act like a teenager with an attitude. You should be ashamed of yourself. Show some respect please.

LETS GET READY TO RUMMMMMMMMMMMBLE.

fyi i change my water.... add salt too

I gave up on this thread a few hours ago.....glad I popped back in to see what Denny had to say......

last year i asked the question about who had success without water changes and i asked this simply because i was curious as to how others are having success.....its all a part of being a hobbyst....do the best at your hobby you can....i came to the conclusion after lots of great advice that the animals we purchase deserve the best we can offer.


i have to agree with above, even if you can dose for everything you need to you also need to dose fresh water in which your fish breath and pass through their bodys:)

Have something viable to add? other than name calling and condescending ridicule?

EDIT: BTW, you are one to talk. You show some respect.

Yes I do have something to add.

You owe Mr. Phelps an apology

bahaha im sorry but had to lol:P:P

For what? He ridiculed me too :lol:. You need to be a little bit more consistant with your tantrums.

I am still here :). I do regular water changes... ~40% every 3-6 months ;). I have also run the math, have a decent understanding of the mechanisms and physiology of coral reefs as they apply to non-conservative element consumption, as well as nutrient cycling and export. My systems are not closed... I supplement all non-conservative elements as well as foods and, to my knowledge, I am able to remove all waste products via my mechanical, biological and chemical filtration (if you know otherwise please let me know, I am learning new stuff everyday and always appreciate constructive criticism). In my case, as well as many others, my corals do better with regular water changes in my bare bottom setup every 3-6 months, not every 1-2 weeks (my dsb and crushed coral substrate tanks require more frequent water changes due to detritus buildup). I might be able to go longer, but do not wish to risk imbalances in elements for which I am unable to test. For the most part I observe changes in various species of corals for indications of problems. I used to do weekly water changes, but no longer feel it gives me the best results. I agree with the comment that water changes are part of 'Reefing 101', but for those of us who completed university, we took courses well beyond the 100 level and discovered our first year Profs often oversimplified things... you are welcome to continue to do long division while I am off running linear regressions (this is the part where I am poking some fun, but it is intended for humor. I have a great deal of respect for everyone and would hate to know I have offended any of you do please don't take me too seriously). You might have noticed I refer to my 3-6 month regiment as 'regular' ;). What if a Reefer did 5% water changes daily and told the 'bi-weekly water changers' that they were cheap and lazy? I bring this up to open debate, not to criticize anyone, and do so because i think there are knowledgable and passionate people following this thread that can offer some great ideas i hope to learn from. Again, I would really like to keep my participation friendly so please accept my apologies if I am offending anyone. I would love to have this conversation with you guys over a beer and would be happy to by the first round ('cause I'm not cheap ;)). Hopefully you are chuckling right now :).


FragIt Dan

Reefocean, that may be true,
But I agree with him,
Not you

Err...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4fRGEqCxOG...-get-along.jpg

yikes... :lol:

What exactly are you dosing?....... here is a short list of some of the minerals and elements that are not being replenished when you dont do regular water changes....Strontium, Bicarbonate, Borate, Bromide, Chloride, Iodide, Sulfate, Potassium, Sodium ,Cobalt, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum, Rubidium, Zinc

Oh so because you take his side, it makes his actions accepatible and mine deplorable.... I see.

ok i chuckled lol i agree though but you do do water changes, its just less often but the effect is still there as oppsosed to someone who doesnt do them at all.not saying that not doing water changes will mean an unsuccessful tank over the years and especially the first 8yrs i ran skimmerless and dosing wasnt an option as 1)you couldnt get test kits where im from and 2)you couldnt get stuff to dose lol so water changes was where its at if you could even get salt lol


with todays advances i mean who knows i just still think its nice to give the animals including corals a breath of fresh air:)

But he already stated he does all his testing surely he tests and doses everything lol or thinks its added to salt mix for filler I mean who needs all those elements right

Brightwell reef building complex, brrightwell aquatics replenish and sometimes calcion at the moment

and how much do they cost??

I dose all non-conservative elements, major, minor and trace. IME, even daily water changes will not keep up with my tanks demands for measurable elements, I can only assume non measurable elements are depleted too quickly as well.


FragIt Dan

Coming from the guy who blindly doses with whatever happens to be in the salt mix/ water....:biggrin:

wait you have to test your water... dang its been 2 years since i tested mine...

"Dilution is the solution to pollution"

I'll be the first to agree you don't have to overdo waterchanges but at the same time all you have to do is a water change and look at your tank before and after to convince you a waterchange does your tank some good. It's like opening a window and letting fresh air in.

Does 10 gal's of ATO a day count on a 230 gal total system with a salinity of 1.020 count as WC?

Nope :p

But how do u know at what rate those elements deplete? U could be building up elements dosing with out w/c. You need to do the w/c to bring the buildup down that's all anyone has said to you. Us pro w/c'ers believe that w/c balance what we cannot test for

Damn it.:lol:

10g seems like a lot is it really that much??:P

Can you elaborate on which elements you test and dose for?
Dosing "Non-conservative elements" is a contradiction in itself, you can't dose for something that by definition varies.

+1 I see it after every w/c

Lol seriously haha you do know u can find out what's in any givin salt mix online right? I know what's going into my tank and my coral love it