Oh Andrew you just could not keep things to email could you.

Yep thats CAD so do the USD conversion and it brings it to the same price as your loved ATI unit. Difference is then you dont get the LED shimmer lights, the highest German engineered ballasts and the active cooling etc etc that YOU WILL get with the Fauna unit.

NO the price is not for everyone thats why there are other fixtures on the market to suit all expectations. If you want a cheap economy lamp there are loads on the market. If you want something that will last trouble free for years to come and provide your system with all it requires in lighting then we have something very interesting and competitive to offer.

Ok I will give you a direct comparison -

ATI fixture 6 tube 24w NO active cooling NO LED NO German ballasts (from what i have been told, but could be wrong) -

USD price $699
x 1.23 exchange rate
= $859 CAD
+ 7% import duty
= $919
+ $70 clearance fees
= $989
+ 5% GST
Total = $1,038CAD

Now the Geismann fixture

39w 8 tube working on same conversions above

CAD $1,937.00!!!

NOW THE FAUNA MARIN FIXTURE

24w 6 lamp independant OSRAM ballasts, active cooling, LED shimmer effect

Total CAD = Estimated +/- $1,000 but hopefully less

39w 8 tube fixture from fauna with all the above features that Geismann do not have

Estimated price $1800CAD!!!

based on spec and price I think you can see which one gives you the best bang for buck!!

Correct prices will be released next week once fauna have the new technology worked out. the prices will be in line with current market trends and not be above anything else on the market of the same quality but will offer a heck of a lot more.

:mrgreen:

Michael,

The only reason I mention ATI at all is for comparison because they are presently at the pinnacle of the North American T5 market with respect to price and performance. The FM fixture certainly sounds better than the ATI with respect to features but the logical next question is will the consumer find the reported improvements justify the price? - not just in comparison to ATI but simply as a price point in excess of $1000 for a 6 lamp 24" T5 fixture. You could manufacture the FM fixture with ballasts made by aliens on Mars and reflectors made from top-secret NASA materials thereby justifying an astronomical increase in the price, but if the performance improvement is negligible in comparison to your nearest competitor then the consumer has to perform a little cost-benefit analysis.

For comparison, there are several "high end" LED fixtures being produced and sold now that have outputs comparable to MH (in comparison to the low intensity LEDs used in some of the earlier models). At $1300 plus for a 24" fixture these aren't exactly flying off the shelf. Consumers hit a point where they ask "Will the light provide any significant benefit to my livestock or does it provide an aesthetic that justifies that price?"

I'm not actually much of a fan of the ATI fixture but, as I said, it's your nearest competitor so you have to expect FM's fixture will be compared to ATI's.

Andrew read my edited post above!! You are not doing the maths on this one. Then you will see that when you take all the costs into account the fauna unit actually is cheaper and offers far more.

As I said to you in email twice I am not going to carry this crazy battle on in regards to ATI and Fauna

The thread is about the Fauna fixture and what it will offer, NOT a debate about price between two units that offer totally different specs.

Go back up and look at the edited post then please lets get back to the intention of this thread.

Here it is again incase you missed it

Ok I will give you a direct comparison -

ATI fixture 6 tube 24w NO active cooling NO LED NO German ballasts (from what i have been told, but could be wrong) -

USD price $699
x 1.23 exchange rate
= $859 CAD
+ 7% import duty
= $919
+ $70 clearance fees
= $989
+ 5% GST
Total = $1,038CAD

Now the Geismann fixture

39w 8 tube working on same conversions above

CAD $1,937.00!!!

NOW THE FAUNA MARIN FIXTURE

24w 6 lamp independant OSRAM ballasts, active cooling, LED shimmer effect

Total CAD = Estimated +/- $1,000 but hopefully less

39w 8 tube fixture from fauna with all the above features that Geismann do not have

Estimated price $1800CAD!!!

And this breakdown of prices is ridiculous because you've maintained that the point of having a Canadian distributor for the FM line in North America is to avoid having prices being affected by the "inflated" American dollar and to have them standardized by the Euro. But now that it's convenient for you to justify the price you're comparing importation from the US.

And yet, despite saying you're done with the comparison to ATI, you continue to do so.

The LED "shimmer" is fluff in my opinion. I could personally care less if a fixture had it or not. The only things I care about are quality ballasts and reflectors and active cooling.

these are obviously a high end fixture and I expect they will be good. One question though. A few times I have read "high quality German ballasts" is the ballast type a secret or can you tell us which German ballast you are using? The only reason I ask, is being a German myself I know that there are excellent, good and ugly ballast that are German. so simply saying German made doesn't guarantee quality. Some of use would like to know exactly what we are going to buy before we shell out big bucks, its like buying a car, you wouldn't buy one with out looking under the head and seeing the specs for the power-train.

Oh and did you get my e-mail a few days ago about the Proflux balling kits?

Steve

Andrew,

No not at all, the prices will be sold IN CAD as per my example to both Canadian dealers and USA dealers equally, USA dealers will list them for what ever the conversion rate is at the time, similar to what you see on Progressive reefs web site.

USA dealers buy from us in CAD$

You compare us against this other fixture and say we are too expensive but then when the calculation is done you can see we work out less.

Whether you want LED or not is irrelevant the fixture you keep emailing me about (yes the ATI) works out more expensive for a CANADIAN - yes you - to buy.

So if comparing the two units in CAD$ then they are pretty even.

Andrew, PLEASE go buy an ATI PLEASE! Clearly our great new fixture is giving you a lot of stress, and I am spending way too much time trying reason with you. the price is what it will be and thats that, if you dont like it then as i say go buy tomorrow what you feel is best for you. I cant help you further, i wish I could but there is nothing further to debate in regards to pricing of this fixture, this thread has been governed to much on price rather than what the fixture has to technically offer.


I just want to get this thread back on track if not I will delete it and start a fresh once the unit is launched.

Hi Steve

Very good question. And one i have the exact answer for

We are using top line OSRAM ballasts ;)

I emailed you back about the balling kit im sure, check your spam or I can send it again if you re email me but i did send it

Great, they are a good ballast. and man are you fast tonight haha

Steve

:lol:

Just keeping up with the heated debates as best i can :cry:

No heated debates from me.. not right now anyways :biggrin:

I am sure me and Brad could start one if you want though:mrgreen:

Steve

I think i have my hands full enough ;)

off to bed, 12pm and heavily pregnant wife is wandering why husband is sitting on forums :(

A-D thanks for all the great info, its gotta be hard trying not to be a salesman so much as trying to bring something to the market that in your opinoin has everything and more and may help hobbyists. You put way to much effort in to some things, if people cant see the simple math in shipping, and currency rates etc. forget about it, no sense in beating a dead horse!"Andrew, PLEASE go buy an ATI PLEASE! Clearly our great new fixture is giving you a lot of stress, and I am spending way too much time trying reason with you. the price is what it will be and thats that, if you dont like it then as i say go buy tomorrow what you feel is best for you"!------ I my self have a Aquaticnics solar flare that i love, run by ice cap ballasts and has ice cap reflectors, but i think i paid around $1000-$1300 for a six lamp unit (with bulbs). I am very interested in your units however. Will the lamps be overriden by the ballasts to burn at a higher wattage? How many moonlights in a 4 foot unit? How about some pics! Sorry -now I'm "that guy". Take your time man, get stuff right before it gets to the market. I read this whole thread and commend your effort. Good luck

Link removed as this is an aqua digital forum - sorry
No Worries....I meant the hmm part of my question to be a "if i can get something like this cheaper and the same basic looks, and good quality then woohoo" I had one of those lights before, got it used. Anyways I like the lights your coming out with :)

Also will you need the profilux to be abble to dim them? how will they be controlled individually?

You can see one of those Aquaperfekt units at Aquatic Addictions. Nice fixtures but for +$3K..... out of my price range.

Cheers,
Vic

HI

Sorry guys but this will be a complete different lamp
new developed with different technology other ballasts other reflectors
active coolings and many other technical stuff into.

I know that some people try to say that this was the same lamp but here is only the design slighly similar not more

Greets claude

Hi

Thanks so much for the extremely supportive posts. Yes I think you are right (my wife thinks so) I spend too much time beating Dead horses trying to quell peoples negative feelings.

From now on i will only post on this thread facts and only answer questions in relation to the light itself.

As for the AQP fixture - Sorry as Claude states there is nothing even remote the same about this fixture and the fauna unit, why would we bring out a unit that is already being marketed by a competitor, that would just be commercial suicide. And the price :surprise:

I appreciate everyones interest, and what is highly important from all this, is for both myself and Claude to get this 100% right and that does not mean rushing the project for a very few peoples demands that will not be met.

OK Phew - so Back to the light, in regards to over driving, no this light will not, this in testing has little effect other than faster lamp burn out. I know people will have their own view on this, so to stave a debate i guess the best i can say is, the lamp will be what it is ;)

Oh the other question about moon light

Well we have sort of gone away from this due to consumer demand more requiring to have a T5 lamp that will produce true wave shimmer, like MH lamps. To put both in would be too expensive for the "standard fixture"

However as we have said from the start, this fixture will have two options "standard" and "Custom" So if someone wanted either or both effects this would not be an issue.

We can pretty much supply anything you may want

cool, I cant think of anyone else offering that much customisation. I think i read somewhere that lamps will be controlled in pairs. Are you saying essentially on a 4 foot 10 lamp fixture there will be 5 diffrent "options" as far a lights coming on and off, or am i reading that wrong? thanks. Ian

"for a six lamp unit (with bulbs). I am very interested in your units however. Will the lamps be overriden by the ballasts to burn at a higher wattage? How many moonlights in a 4 foot unit? How about some pics! Sorry -now I'm "that guy". Take your time man, get stuff right before it gets to the market. I read this whole thread and commend your effort. Good luck"



Hi

We just make some tests next week about the shimmer LED here in Europe we will work with blue LED for moonlight effect and a lamp which can both.
We want to use for that the active cooling fan ballast.
Normaly we plan 4 LED for the 54/80 Watt Version and 3 for the 24/39 Watts.
All can be controlled over the control box at the end of the 1 powercord which go to the lamp


We did not override T5 it make no sense cause with overriding Tubes you will have to much heat and to short lifetime.
We use an way to optimize all parts for light output , from the choice of ballast , to special reflectors , active cooling and some other technical games
you will get the maximum light output and maximum lifetime of the tube.
and i think this is important.

More tomorrow
greets claude

Due to the wishes of full dimmable options from 24 - 80 Watts we had still some work to do.

I am working with GHL directly to bring the dimming options to this new fixture. ;)