I happen to think the rating system is a good start, resetting once every six months works for me. Accountability is a good thing! I would not want to opt out if I had a negative review especially if the greater portion is positive!

WOW really walking on a double edged sword here. I like the anonymous feedbacks beacuse then you know there are true feedbacks. If someone is not happy with a vendor they are not going to post in a vendor forums what the problem is to have an online p*ssing match. I have bought frags from vendors that I thought were way over priced for what I got size/quality...guess the money went towards a good photoshop program :wink: but I guess that is my own stupidity for not asking the right questions.
Now if I was getting bad/good ratings from customers I would be asking why? I see only 2 vendors want feedback Wicked frags and Coral Master how come vendors don't set up there own polls on why they like/dislike there shopping experience? and keep it anonymous to help there respective businesses EVERYONE will always give good feedback not everyone will give poor feedback with repercussions. Like Snappy said he got an unsatified customer ...but why? not who? was it price? quaility? experience? maybe if he knew why it wasn't perfect I know he would strive to make it perfect....(Sorry to use you as an example Greg). If some vendors want to pull out of it or some bad reviews so be it guess some want to hide what reallity is
I mod on several boards that do not allow any vendor reviews PERIOD good or bad, it results in hard feeling and p*ssing matches BUT I am going to propose to my boards what you guys have done here the the condtion of anonymity, to ensure a true rating.
Kudos to the Mods for the the vendor rating...keep up the good work :mrgreen:

Never mind

maybe I'm being naive but why would anonymity give true results. If I got a bad experience or a good why would it make a difference you could see my name. I always have the option not to participate in the poll whatever my experiences.

As for vendors hounding with PM's can't see that being a problem. If they're trying to contact to make right, great, if just hassling I always have the option just to delete (not sure if on this forum one can block) but I really don't think they're that childish or that much time to waste. If the vendor sends me 100 PMs and blocks my inbox, I'll let the mods know.

Believe the easiest would just be having a public poll where one could vote only (not post) and if there was a unsatisfactory vote and the problem resolved the poster contacts the mod to delete the vote, if unresolved the vote stands. Can't see a whole lot of bad votes needing efforts of the mods.

I dont think it needs to be reset every 6 months...The long terrm average will show the true results moreso than short term stuff...

Also, in response to what wicked frags stated on page 4,

Individuals who leave any type of feedback on this system (either above or below the average feedback rating) can be traced back to their username, IP address and network card from the computer they used. I can then find out if they are in fact a customer or simply a loyal customer of another sponsor, again, should I see fit under the circumstances. Thanks.

Even if the person who voted isnt a customer, that shouldnt discredit their judgement of the said store...For example, lets say my cousin buys a bunch of frags from Joe's Frag Shoppe and loves every bit of the experience...I then go over to his place to see what all the hype about and then realize it doesnt turn my crank due to whatever reason...Of course I would feel the opposite towards Joe's Frag Shoppe than what he feels but its just an opinion...

When I look at these ratings, I am more than happy with a vendor who has 80% in the first 2 categories and would be willing to do business with them...Lets face it, we are all human and no one is perfect...If I see one that has 100% in the top categiory, I would think its too good to be true...If you're perfect, it goes to your head but if you're not, then you strive to get better...

Its normal business practise to have someone who is not entirely satisfied with everything you have...Like someone else said, "you cant please everyone all of the time"...I see it all the time at my office...People look for reasons to b*tch...

Wow, I'm gone for 2 weeks and this is what I come back to? You know it's bad when the work pileup to sift through after a two week vacation is a tiny fraction of the Canreef pileup to sift through.

I'm going to throw my two bits in here. Until I'm paid a salary to sort through this stuff, I opt for a system that requires less intervention from me. At this point I'm tempted to support the notion that vendor reviews once again be removed from this site. I really see little to no benefit for the headaches and heartaches that this causes. Canreef exists to share information related to the hobby and in particular the husbandry of captive reef specimens. The emphasis being on information, not trade or business. Canreef is not a surrogate for ebay or other buy/sell type boards. The bandwidth that is required for this site is staggering - thus the costs to keep the board running reflect that - thus we enlisted the aid of vendors to sponsor the site to be able to keep it as a free resource for all. We thank vendors for their support because without them there will be no Canreef as it exists right now. As with all things, caveat emptor. We are not the better business bureau, we are not ebay, we are not reefcentral. We are Canreef and we strive to provide a unique stamp onto the hobby in this country.

I completely agree with Tony and think the polls are a waste of the Admins time and completely unnessary! Do your own homework, make your own purchase decisions. If you feel you've been screwed, lesson learned!
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me!

Welcome back Tony.. :lol:

Here, I'll offer this:

Evidently it's too much work for the existing moderators to manage the burden of the current and proposed vendor review systems. Perhaps more moderators are needed. I'm way too busy to do this but I do have a gap usually between 12 and 2 where I don't have many patients to see so I'll volunteer to help moderate things if needed.

I agree. This seems to be a big burden on Canreef. IMO, we were doing just fine without the Vendor Ratings Forum (I guess I am speaking for myself here) but I do agree with Treebeard's post.

I never understand why mods complain about how they don't get paid and how much time they volunteer... exactly you don't do it because you have to. You do it because you want to. You volunteer. You made that choice and all of this is just part of the job description.

In the same breath I'm not saying it's easy, and I'm not saying you should all just quit because obviously we need you as much as you need us but I'm just saying we all make the beds we sleep in.

Canreef does have buy/sell forums which does kinda put you in the ebay category > buyer and seller meeting ground. And wherever that happens problems arise.. again for whatever reason Canreef choose to have those types of forums and this all kinda goes with the territory.

Being "Canreef" and not ebay or reefcentral does not mean there is nothing that can be learned from these other successful sites, which is why they have been mentioned, not to bash Canreef but to make it better and like this thread has established no one is ever 100% including Canreef and the sucky part is it takes work to get things great which is what we are ALL doing in this thread... working to make Canreef better

This ought to be interesting.

Geez
 

There go the chairs again....everyone duck!!!

Aw...I missed the "interesting" part!!! Dangit!

I see both sides to the story, although I tend to agree with this A LOT.

You can find out how reputable a vendor is just by asking a simple question: "Can you guys recommend a good vendor for ______ in my area.online/etc please?" Simple. Done. You can bet you will receive a PM or two about vendors to avoid as well. ;)

Again just offering what others have done to help find the best solution for everyone:

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...showtopic=5968

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showforum=16

That's crap. We do this to enjoy the hobby, not as full time jobs, and our "job description" will be what we decide it is, not what anyone else thinks it should be. IMO, Canreef was just fine last week without this, and I vote we go back to it. At this point, it's that, or it stays the way it is and we'll review it in the fall. This has gone on enough.

Agreed

Despite posting suggestions on this thread to try to help, I also think it was fine before all this. Just my .02

superduperwesman has a mere 64 posts, but succeeds in ****ing off the mods fully. :p

And I was just thinking I never welcomed him to the board :)

With great power comes great responsibility :biggrin:

Like I said... it's not and easy job

But I honestly think everyone is just trying to make things better and sometimes you gotta go through the crap to get to the other side and right now thats what we're all doing

If Canreef was "just fine last week" this never would have started

No, everyone is mostly not helping or trying to make things better. Some are whining, some are dictating, some are just being difficult. When the crap gets this deep, I'm thinking we're just gonna turn around, or do what we wanted to begin with.

Thanks for all the help to those trying to help, but the staff will decide from here. Have a great day..

Catherine, that would be your queue :)

You don't have to be a fish pro to understand life in general or see problems ;)

Honestly I'm just trying to help and just so there is no DOUBT

I LOVE THIS FORUM!! :biggrin:

Exactly. And if given the option, I choose to make a bed that is comfortable for me to sleep in, not one made of nails.

My point being is that there is no incentive to make something harder than it needs to be. It's not about a financial incentive, it's about doing something that reaps a reward. I see little reward in repeated hashing over the same points again and again. Thus, until membership asks for me to be removed ... or until the day I decide to leave the board ... you have to put up with me as a moderator here. And my position on this is it this issue needlessly polarizes the membership, and there is little to be gained from it all. Luckily, I am but one voice on the staff here so if you feel this unreasonable, feel free to garner support from any of the other staff members who you feel might be sympathetic to your cause.

Respectfully, I disagree with this as well. The buy/sell/trade function is intended as a sideline because we all end up with equipment weno longer use. Ebay is as close to a free-for-all, if it's sellable, you likely can buy it on ebay. And good for them, I'm glad they're there, I use them all the time. But ebay is about business and each and every transaction on ebay results in revenue to the enterprise. Canreef is in no such category nor does it wish to be.

Frankly I think Canreef is doing just fine being Canreef. And who's to say those other sites can't learn something from us? If it wasn't already a somewhat successful model then the bandwidth costs would likely be far less than what they are. So while suggestions for improvement are always welcomed, recognize that not all of them are workable and thus not all will always be adopted.

Hey?!?!
 

I never got welcomed to the board...
:razz:

Michelle, welcome to Canreef!!! Ignore all this sillyness, ok? :)

Just in case Catherines busy :mrgreen:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6...thelock3zd.jpg

Tony, you mirror everyone else's thoughts on the staff. Thanks again for your input.

Figured I was gonna wait for her anyway, but good try.

LOL... Welcome Michelle!! :mrgreen::mrgreen:

Welcome to Canreef to one and all!!!!!!! :lol:

Why, thank you one and all...It's a pleasure to be here.

If nothing else, you can't say that the Canreef members aren't interesting....:lol:

I don't know what I would do if I didn't have this entertainment. I might have to actually get some work done or something....eeek!

SWC?

I don't think I saw them.

Not sure he's still going. Is Jason still around?

You say "put up" like I want you gone? I don't! I do think the mods do a good job and sometimes the "one voice" just needs a little help from some other voices. I'm glad people help me which is why I try to offer a useful opinion because no one has all the answers. And I don't claim to either which is why I keep referencing others (reencentral, nanoreef, ebay).


I said it was kinda the same as ebay (sideline buy/sell = kinda) which is why things might be able to be borrowed from them.


I never said that other sites couldn't learn from Canreef I think they could... and I know not all suggests are workable I'm just throwing some out. Not even ones I can take credit for because I stole them:smile:

I have an idea...
 

Let's add superduperwesman as a mod and make him in charge of the vendor ratings....

hahaha!! (sorry man-had to be done.)
:razz:

Excellent idea! Shall we start a poll? All in favor......:mrgreen:

:neutral: PASS. Thats very ok... like I said I'm very very sure it is not an easy job and as it stands my bed is comfortable.

Oh, Catherine, we can't wait all day......

Lol... wish we would get this much participation in some of the actual reef related discussions. :lol:

:lol: This sucker grew fast. For every page I would finish reading, you guy's would be another 2 pages ahead of me!