I guess it was wrong to invoke english common law there. What I meant was that the laws are based upon the opinions, actions, etc. of the people, and that means that as a citizen, I can do my part to form the laws. The back of the ticket itself says I can go to court, plead guilty, and then "make submissions as to penalty", which I understand to mean I can get down on me knees and grovel. :razz: If no one ever argued against laws, we'd have a pretty rotten system.