If you read it more closely, I can quote my self in saying
" actualy a 175 is brighter.. does it have more PAR.. no, but it is visualy brighter. " (you need to quote the whole sentance when you are roasting me please, not just what suits your purpose. As in this case it changes the over all meaning)

I never said it was more intense, you are the one who actulay used that word in your explanation. I said it can make the tank more white than blue (which is a visual observation.

if your going to bust my chops then at least stay on what I said, not what you think I said :?

Thanks for your time
Steve

Steve,

My apologies for cutting off that one part of the quote, when I was editing the post to fix a spelling mistake, I must have cut off that part. I had intended to place the entire sentence in there as it is relevant in my explanation of why the 175W may appear brighter but that is an illusion due to the different frequency make up's of the 10KK vs. the 20KK. Even more relevant actually.

And I stated why in my opinion, experience and knowledge that doesn't work. A 175W is whiter yes. Brighter or more intense? No. It appears brighter or more intense due to the fact that the frequency make up of a 10KK light is such that the various frequencies are balanced out so that the light "appears white. Which is more readily taken in and seen by our eyes. Sit and stare at that same 175 and the radium as Brad did. You'll see which is brighter. There is over DOUBLE the energy being put out by radium. Due to it's frequency make up it doesn't look like that because our eyes don't perceive the blue as easily.

I’ll clarify this one as well while I am at it now.

The 10KK doesn’t over power the radium. All that happens is that when the two light sources each emit their individual light the two mix and then create what in essence is a combination of frequencies. One doesn’t overpower the other. They add together to create a new color temperature light being seen by our eyes. One that is more visually pleasing and is more readily understood by our eyes.

This is why I decided to post. Clarification of what is going on was needed. Without it some newbie that had not the first understanding of lighting would read this thread. See you saying that the 175W was brighter and then say “well why the h3ll am I going to run out and buy a 400W setup if the 175 is brighter?”. And don’t say it won’t happen. It happens in all areas of this hobby. Not just lighting. People see something. Read it. And take it as gospel. Then when things go wrong and something happens they get upset and mad at what they feel was an “obvious” attempt to mislead them.

I said all of this for one reason only. Not to roast your a$$ but to let people know why a 175W may look brighter or more intense but it isn't. In the last year since you have started reef keeping you have amassed a fairly good-sized knowledge bank, which you are able to dig into and spread your knowledge around. With that said many people who don't know the first thing about this hobby and the lighting that goes along with it will read what you say and take it as 100% truth and gospel due to the fact that you have a PAR meter and can pass along the numbers that you are able to take. This is reinforced with the fact you are able to build things that most aren't capable of due to your qualifications as from past experiences, people don't bother to look at all possible sources of information. I have provided a counter point. Nothing more.

You chose to directly challenge Doug in his statement that the Radium is brighter than the 175 due to his experiences. And I am challenging and providing a counterpoint to yours. In Doug’s experience and personal views with the corals in his tank bleaching he is saying that the 175 is NOT brighter than his dual 400W Radiums. And I agree.

When I used to buy corals I would try to find out what size lighting system it came from so that I could properly acclimate it to my lighting. If you take a coral that was under a 175W prior to entering your tank would you not prefer to give it the best chance at living by letting it get used to a higher wattage light setup? You probably do. It becomes a habit. If it came from a higher wattage system than your own, no worries. Lower wattage. Start it low and far away. Then gradually move it into place. That gives you the best chances for survival.

More of my .02

apologies accepted, and i will apoligize for comming across so brash.

Having tested both a 400 watt radium on a son agro and a 400 watt 10K ushio on a regualr M58 ballast, I can say that they do put out roughly the same par.. i think it was with in 3% of each other on 2 differen bulb of each type on two different sets of ballasts..don't ask why so many combanations.. goes back to the green eye thing :wink:

yes you are right.. power wise either blows away a 175 watt in real power, but as you said visualy the 175watt looks/appears brighter and does make for a more pleasing look when used in conjunction like Adam has done. I think his tank looks very nice that way also, but that is a personal statement.

anyways. I guess this got started from my lack of making it clear that I was talking visualy and not real numbers, thanks for pointing that out and I will watch myself for that in the future. :oops:


Steve

I was with iwasaki 250 when I change for the radium even reduce light ing period to 4 houre a day and get it up slowly over couple of month and some coral have take very long time to focus on the radium some even could just not do it candy cane is almost ded after 6 month

green frog spawn just start to look good 1 month ago even a brown clam have slown is grow for couple of month but now it is ok

On the other hand all hight demand coral blue and purple clam love it and grow like mad and improve in color like notting els could do it

to my eye I could tell they are more brighter than my saki and all people came home tell the same you allmost need sunglass to look at the tank 8)

(I run them on the Agro)

Stephane, although I can't say Radiums are dim, they are not as bright as my 400 10k bulbs. I think the color is awesome, but I do not need sunglasses. And I once tried a 400w Iwasaki...THAT was bright!!
Of the 400w bulbs I've tried, the Radiums are the least bright (to my eyes). However, coral growth has continued and the colors do look like they're improving.

Steve,

Apology accepted.. :D

Don't let it happen again. ;) hee hee. :D

Brad my saki was the 250 one and IMO the radium are a way stronger

I never light any other 400watt than Radium so I realy can't tell but I have no douth your are right on the Hushio and the saki 400 watt anyway
I run 400 watt only for the radium if not I will have keep my 250 saki since they realy looking good and IMO they are still realy great bulb for the price

Jamie, what would be the fun then? :) Thats one reason I "usually" speak from experience. I have tried them all. :lol:

I switched to Radiums, because everyone was saying how awesome they were. The main reason I sold my 250w Iwasaki set up, was because I never had an Icecap ballast anyways, I got a good deal on the 400 pendant and a 12K bulb, and I already had a pair of 175w bulbs on Icecaps, to supplement the 400 12K with. I still say that combination of 175-10K, 400-12K, 175-10K, over my 4ft. 170g gave the nicest light and coral colours I have seen.


I would switch back to 250 Iwasaki/vho combination, because its very intense, the 250 version is a nice crisp white and most of all the freakin bulbs last a couple years. Tired of dropping several hundred per year on bulbs. :)

Thanks Darren. Thats what I was trying to express. Just so busy, redoing the tank, to try rid it of the flatworms.

Steve, I personally have no problem with you stating your views on lighting and respect your opinion & testing in this field. Thats why I e-mailed you with a lighting question, instead of the other gazzillion internet aquarists I know. :)

Back to the question at hand. I was thinking of using an HQI/Radium, in the center of the other Radiums. But I decided to go with the 65K instead. Makes a nice mix and as mentioned, gives at least one bulb some longevity.

What I would really like to do, is to run a 400 HQI, in the center of my pulsestarts, just to see for myself, how much brighter, if any, they are.